Alex Jones fans please explain the Left and right paradigm PLEASE!

Originally posted by zeddissad2
... we can pretty well deduct that economical (neo)liberalism is not sure way to healthy economy.

Your deduction is only half of the whole according to the compass. Certainly not absolute.

reply to post by Ignorance_Defier


I'll be short and sweet in providing the best answer as possible from a person who doesn't listen to Alex Jones but who believes in the strong possibility of a "left/right paradigm".

It's all about true choice versus the illusion of choice. About tweaking perception.

We, as a culture, seem to have fallen into the habituation of political polarities. We swing far right for awhile and then, in reaction, back to the left. Reagan/Bush Sr to Clinton to Bush Jr to Obama. This, or course, is based upon emotional factors - a reaction to fear and unhappiness. And it is a fairly predictable and common occurrence.

For example, how many people do you know who bounce back and forth from Cell phone carriers, ISPs, and cable providers - literally batting the cycle of possibilities until they find themselves back at the start? I know quite a few who do this. If they feel slighted, at all, they simply move on to the next merchant.

This is the same phenomenon at work in the two party system. Back and forth, back and forth - forever focused upon "right now" and never really watching for emergence of pattern.

Funny thing about political change is, it's not really change. Nothing really ever gets repealed. We just get a few blatant "pro business" years followed by a few seemingly "pro social issues" years. The reality is that business is almost universally the benefactor in either type of administration.

It's a game of good cop / bad cop on a very complicated scale with business interests reaping the reward regardless of which party is in power.

This is the nature of the paradigm.

Looks like the OP came to crow on the merits of the "left", when the "left" is all we have LEFT.
Call it fascism, corporatism, whatever, but "left" means nothing. Sure, if you have a congress that actually represents the people, and what they say is what they mean, and they read bills before voting (disregarding corporate interests that interfere with human interests), then left and right might actually mean something.
BUT WE DON'T.
Take what you have learned here back to that "leftist" classroom.

Thank you to the respondents who weren't rude.

Basically, what I got from most of you is; there is clearly a left and a right side of political ideologies. But most of you feel that the senators and POTUS don't do what they really think is right. You believe that whether demo, or republican they both get scared and do what the billionaires and major corporations want them to do. I agree that certain politicians do this but not nearly a majority of them.

I encourage those who are interested to get involved in their local governments to see how it actually works. Doesn't matter if you are left or right winged; try to make a change.

To the person who said "Bush SR and Clinton are now friends"; what is wrong with that? I have a great deal of friends who are on the opposite political spectrum of me. There is nothing wrong with being friends with someone that you disagree with politically.

Also a great deal of you seem to be libertarian's. The problem with libertarian's to me is their theories aren't concrete, they also don't have many major historical points to look at.

I encourage everyone to respect those on the other side of them; also we shouldn't not be friends with someone because we share different ideologies.

Thanks for all the input!

**Also when I said that there are psychological reasons people believe in conspiracy theories doesn't mean that they have a disorder or are mentally challenged at all. There are psychological reasons why we choose the friends we have, like the music we like & live the life we want. It wasn't meant to put anyone down it was merely to suggest to those who are deeply into a conspiracy to research the psychological reasons of why they may be.**

Originally posted by Ignorance_Defier
I have my B.A in psychology and am currently in a graduate program for political science. I have been talking to a lot of Alex Jones fans online and they keep insisting that there is no differences between the left and the right. I reply with numerous (pro-life,pro-choice, big gov, small gov, social programs, free market, gov overseeing free market, gun rights, homosexual rights etc) I pretty much name as many differences between the two that I can and they still deny it. I don't believe they are trolling I believe somehow Alex Jones has really convinced them that there is no difference between the left and the right.

I know that there are many psychological reasons people believe in conspiracy theories as well as many reasons people won't leave them. But how can some people be so tricked into thinking that there is no difference between the left and right. It is okay to disagree/not like one or the other, but to say that there is no difference just seems outrageous to me.

Does anyone agree that there is no difference or can someone explain to me why they believe this?

Thanks!

I don't know who Alex Jones is but I do believe the Left and the Right are two roads leading to slavery. The Right wants to make us slaves of corporations and the Left wants to make us slaves of government via taxation. The pro-gay, pro-choice crap are just distractions with the purpose of dividing people.

reply to post by Ignorance_Defier


I would say there are no substantial differences between the Republican and Democratic parties and voting for one over another is a waste of your vote.

Who supported the Patriot Act: Democrats and Republicans
Who supported warrant-less NSA spying: Democrats and Republicans
Who supported assassination lists with American citizens on it: Democrats and Republicans
Who supported putting a GPS unit on suspects cars without a warrant: Democrats and Republicans
Who supported ever bigger defense budgets including the latest $700 billion: Democrats and Republicans
Who supported invading Afghanistan: Democrats and Republicans
Who supported the Iraq War authorization: Democrats and Republicans
Who supported the bailout of the financial industry: Democrats and Republicans
Who supported the bailout of the auto industry: Democrats and Republicans

When it comes to the national security / military industrial complex of the U.S., the leadership of both the Democrats and Republicans are in lock stop.

Yes there were more Democrats who opposed the Iraq War for example than Republicans but the who's who of Democrats: Clinton, Edwards, Kerry, all voted for the Iraq War resolution and did not even bother to read the classified National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq.

The leadership of the Democratic and Republican parties support the elite robber barons that truly run the world.

You will always find outliers in both parties that aren't in lockstep with the leadership in taking away our rights and property, Congressmen like Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinch but they are few and far between.

Debates on gay marriage or abortion or other social issues are red herrings designed to divide up the people so that they can be conquered by the elite.

The differences you see in the parties are mostly fluff issues.

So you don't think the PA is in the best interest of the people? Why not? You know how many sleeper terrorist cells are living the USA right now?

You asked a question you know he can't possibly have the answer to, why?

In the past 10 years about 3,000 people have died in the U.S. due to terrorism.
In the past 10 years about 300,000 people have died in the U.S. due to ordinary traffic fatalities.
In the past 10 years about 250,000 people have died in the U.S. due to the ordinary common flu.

Dying in a traffic accident is a far bigger risk to the average American citizen and no one is talking about taking away our rights to make us safer from traffic accidents and for good reason.

The war on terror is a fraud. A fraud designed to give the government the excuse to engage in imperialistic wars around the world while gathering more power over each and ever American citizen through warrantless spying. Knowledge is power afterall.

Terrorism is a problem but it is a minor problem whose affect on Americans pales in comparison to ordinary everyday life. Terrorism only became a major problem when the leadership of our country decided to use it as an excuse to pass power grabbing, liberty destroying, legislation that they have had on the backburner and have been trying to pass for sometime with past excuses including hackers.

The left/right paradigm:two suposedly seperate parties who cater to the extremists of the so-called political spectrum and proceed to rob us all blind with their special intrests while the majorty of the public squabble over various "issues." that in reality either "party." can care less about.That's the left/right scam in a nutshell.

reply to post by Ignorance_Defier


I would expect more pronounced and more theoretical approach to such basic question - as left/right paradigm is - from student of POLITICAL SCIENCE. I presented my reasoning while using comparable method. Not perfectly accurate (that is normal in humanities) but at least comparable. Output of this method clearly show that mainstream political debate in US is crippled because it is happening just in one quarter of political spectrum. As I'm citizen of Czech republic I have no chance to look on local politics in US - being only argument Ignorance_Defier brought to debate. I hope there are better schools for political science then Ignorance_Defier visits.

As I'm thinking about this thread it is mirroring somehow US political situation as whole = NO DEBATE.

reply to post by Ignorance_Defier


The Bush and Clinton thing IS wierd. If you and a person who are on opposite sides of the political spectrum are good friends that doesn't change anything. He hasn't done anything in politics. You have done nothing in politics. The two of you just have views. But Bush and Clinton on the other hand are two very powerfull men at the top of society. You see the difference now?

And the thing about "there are psychological reasons people believe in conspiracy theories". OK, you didn't want to offend somebody but just stated the obvious and then stated that there are psychological reasons people believe other things too.

But here is the thing I have a problem with. It seems that it's OK to point this out when discussing "conspiracy theories".

If we were discussing progressivism would you have pointed out that "there are psychological reasons people believe in progressive ideas".
I don't think so. Why?
Because it's not relevant to the subject we are discussing. But apparently when discussing "conspiracy theories" it is OK to point out that there are psychological reasons people believe these theories. Of course if I said something like that to a democrat while discussing his ideas I would have looked like someone who were trying to insult him. But obviously this is OK to say to "conspiracy theorists".

For example if i were to explain something simple to you like the Bilderberg Group. It's like the G7 summit but not so many bells and whistles and of course you don't get to know squat about what they are talking about.
Our elected officials in secret discussions with captains of industry and high up policy makers.
To me this is wierd because elected officials are chosen by the people and are supposed to be held accountable.

But when people tell you that "there is a psychological reason you think this way" it's kinda condescending. It may not have been intended to be but it really is.

I really wish i could express myself better on this. But in my short and simple terms the answer you seek is with the big picture and the trends that people are starting to notice. The fact that people are losing trust makes them question since the trend has not been for betterment of our country. So the people who see through this realize there are behaviors that are not changing for the good of the people, but rather for the benefit of another entity. And here is where the real conspiracy of defining that entity is. The facts state that the PA act has not been repealed. The healthcare bill is passed even though people were against it Our wars are expanding when our economy is failing. Our jobs are being shipped over seas and tax credits issued for keeping them over there.

Once you separate and digest the facts you now can see these things are not really helping the average Amerikan citizen. This has become a pattern. And above all else is seen through when the same promises are spoken on the MSM by our politicians. So now that the pattern is every 2 years, is change house party, celebrate for "change" and get the same policy shoved right back down your throat some of use have become weary as the resulting policy has not changed, but only the faces shoving it down. In other words the end result is the same no matter what button you mash at the voting booth.

I guess another simpler way to put it is, if your wife cheated on you, would you trust her? And if it happened again, would you now trust her more? Even if she told you she loved you, did not want to leave you, was doing it for the kids etc.... you still know you will catch her again because it is now a trend. And just like the man in this paragraph.... we the people have let it happen for way to long without due process.

Cliff notes: People are looking at the trends or left to right to left toss, which lead to the same results instead of results the people voted them into office for.

Here is the false left-right paradigm in a nutshell:



The two mainstream parties are controlled by the same globalist power structure.

No matter what policies they seem to endorse, they are on the same team playing the same ball game.



They choose the candidates because they make the rules.



A two-party system means total control.



Therefore the voter base is divided into two seemingly opposite camps, when in reality they are one and the same. Classic divide and conquer strategy.



A one party system is inherently unstable and prone to being dislodged from power by the civilian resistance.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by zeddissad2
... we can pretty well deduct that economical (neo)liberalism is not sure way to healthy economy.

Your deduction is only half of the whole according to the compass. Certainly not absolute.

I agree that combination of authoritarian rule with ANY economic model is not working in long run. It is historically proven that in short run may authoritarian rule lead to great economical achievements (Red Terror and unbelievable industrialization of USSR or German economical miracle under NSDAP rule). But both were not sustainable in long term. But still: I lived in "planed economy" for 14 years. There were shortages in basic necessities (toilet paper for example) but still Czechoslovakia were exporting nuclear reactors. Our machinery products were of top quality. Many power plants use turbines Made in CSSR. Medical care and education was free for everybody and in technical/science area it was one of the worlds best (University education in humanities was other chapter). There were NO homeless people.
After attack of neo-liberal economic ideology our industry was tunneled out, our technical supremacy disappeared, streets started to be full of homeless people and unemployment skyrocketed. This move from one extreme to other extreme cost us unbelievable amounts of money and many destroyed lives. Our young generation is dumb and in bad sense extremely individualistic (= no social consciousness, no responsibility). Our media mimic US mainstream so majority of people is trapped in false consciousness and vote against their own class interests. Today the rest of social state is being destroyed as our masters from IMF want. Our fate in last twenty years is not so different from fate of US as can be seen fro this article.

I like ideas of A. Smith but I think they are suited for much different stage of capitalism - not for current corporate/global stage. Also F. Hayek's ideas are often misinterpreted toward extreme deregulation. For me is the basic question: Is participatory democracy able to oppose crushing power of corporate capital? I hope so, but I'm really not so sure.

It has been proven over the past 100+ years of recorded political history of the united states that the agenda of removing freedom is done so by both parties. When you break it down into a unified theory the theory nolonger becomes theory but a political science where you have a a pretty good idea of how the political winds will blow.
It combines political awareness at the current state and the divide between the fake choices we have been offered.
Then when you see the outcome of an election and the voting patterns of the ones elected you see NO diffrence in the outcomes.

The only difference is that the r and d are switched and one gets the euphoria of being on the winning team and then lets there winning team do whatever it wants even if it is illegal.

Then after the sparkle has worn off the new political saviors and is no longer effective a new political savior is chosen and supported. Only to have him break every promise they ever spoken. To vote against freedom.

I think if you want a full understanding. You need to watch the show. You can not encompass the entire work of Alex Jones in a simple 1 page response.
Second if you want to know what a conspiracy theory is, you need to anlyze the word and why is it used.

Well first it is used to immediately dismiss a conversation and a word that says hey do not listen to that person that is far outside of what is acceptable to discuss and to even participate in discussing a conspiracy theory to come to a conclusion is crazy because everyone knows the "real answer" or the one given to us.

The point of labeling a story a conspiracy is to end the discussion and to call the person speaking about it crazy or put them outside the current political or social order.
Nothing is above discussion or critical thinking. Why should anyone limit themselves because society deems it so?

reply to post by Ignorance_Defier



Interesting; I wonder why the sudden rise in these conspiracy believers? The economy, non peer reviewed works, youtube etc?

Still they insist there is no difference! I do not understand when they say there is a flat out no difference between the left and right.
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Here is the difference, most people pay attention to the rhetoric and believe that is the main plot to the persons political views.Alex has a way of pointing out that both of the repubs and dems support the same things and both are criminal agendas.
Alex gets down to the meat which most of you have been trained to ignore since elementary. Thats why john mccain can't get away with saying 4 years ago he supports amnesty and now hes alll against it. Its a lie, john is always for amnesty but now the political winds are going against this so he lies about it to buy enough time till the day he can vote for amnesty. Theirs no conspiracy here its true without a doubt.

Why would the majority of abortion clinics be in black neighborhoods? why would 50% of unborn black children be aborted and most black folk vote democrat? Do you think black folk would vote for an party that would set up abortion clinics in there communities and abort half of there unborn children ? If they weren't convinced that is what a good democrat does?

Do you really believe that a good republican marches your wife through naked body scanners to fly on an airport? Or puts checkpoints 100 miles inside the united states when there is no legal precedent to do so?

Its the MEAT you have to get over the glam and the strategy and the baloney. Its all about the final vote the final actions what it really means.

If i punch you in the face are Do you really care what color the sky is? Or are you going to start punching back.

Originally posted by Ignorance_Defier
I have my B.A in psychology and am currently in a graduate program for political science. I have been talking to a lot of Alex Jones fans online and they keep insisting that there is no differences between the left and the right. I reply with numerous (pro-life,pro-choice, big gov, small gov, social programs, free market, gov overseeing free market, gun rights, homosexual rights etc) I pretty much name as many differences between the two that I can and they still deny it. I don't believe they are trolling I believe somehow Alex Jones has really convinced them that there is no difference between the left and the right.

I know that there are many psychological reasons people believe in conspiracy theories as well as many reasons people won't leave them. But how can some people be so tricked into thinking that there is no difference between the left and right. It is okay to disagree/not like one or the other, but to say that there is no difference just seems outrageous to me.

Does anyone agree that there is no difference or can someone explain to me why they believe this?

Thanks!

In this case they are 100% right, This "Left-v-Right Paradigm" they speak of is how everyone seems to take a politcal side when it pertains to matters regarding them. Hate the economy be a GOP, hate the banks control become a Dem and therein lies the problem which is a fundamental problem.

While we get continually suckered into the paradigm the No. 1 reason we fail to realize time and time again the paradigm is only used to keep the populous divided and infighting with one another.

Think of The World Wrestling Entertainment, Inc. or WWE for short, bitter enemies in front of the cameras and best of friends behind the cameras, That is the best way to describe the paradigm. Distract the populous long enough with insignificant and moronic stuff to keep them looking at not what you're really doing but what you want them to think you are doing. IE, I want a law passed say, restricting access to public parks, all I have to do is find every little snippet and news report whereas someone was either raped, murdered, mugged by a psycho person and flip it to say animal attacks are on the rise in public parks, all the while doing nothing to either enhance or restrict access to parks while my true agenda gets passed, a multi trillion dollar bank deal. Distract the populous long enough to get what you want passed and without warning the distractionary item goes bye bye.

It becomes to the point whereas someone will back the party line and totally disregard what is best for the nation just to remain "in lock step" with the party. The nation cannot and will not move forward if we continually allow the paradigm to dictate and dominate the schedule. Kick out all political parties and watch how fast real change we all can beleive in takes shape and see how much faster laws can be passed without the parties themselves trying to inflict and instill it's will upon the law while caring not for what is best for the nation as a whole.

When there is no political parties to answer to what the nation wants and needs will get passed considerably faster.