What is the purpose of America?

Hi gang:

I want you to think critically for a moment, and really consider this question. I am an American, and my question is for Americans, or those with a sufficient understanding of America to have an answer.

What is the purpose of organizing a nation? Are we a people of totally individual aims and desires? If that is true, then why are we a nation at all? Why do we call ourselves a people? If everyone cares not at all for the nation, and is just in it for themselves, then we have totally degenerated from our beginings and have no right to call ourselves a country at all.

Can you even think in terms of a nation? Or has it become a free-for-all of greed, lust, and personal acquisition?

If you have given thought for these things, what have you found? What direction should the coutnry take, what things should we accomplish? What is the purpose of having a nation? What is the purpose of America?

Respond to this question on ONE CONDITION: You will not say "For the pursuit of Life, Liberty, and Happiness." That's not a thinking answer. I want to hear from the people.

Think about your answer, and tell me what you think our purpose is. We have to have some kind of direction, or we are no better than the hut-dwellers, or the spear chuckers, or the animals themselves who wander and eat when it pleases them.

Speak citizens!

Ark

Are you asking why it was founded, or what we believe the purpose of it is now?

I mean what we are doing now.

We, the living, thinking people currently paying taxes and contributing. . . to what? That "what" is what I want to hear about. What are we doing as a people, a nation?

Be thoughtful in your answer. What is the purpose of calling oruselves a nation, why do we pay our taxes, why do we elect leaders to a federal government? Surely we have a good reason for doing these things. Can you name one of them?

We have matured and changed from our foundation. We are not a child nation anymore, what are our goals as a big, grown up people? Adults have goals in their own life, so an adult nation should have something going on, shouldn't it?

We surely have more going on than chasing down the modern day pirates and highwaymen called "terrorists". Our current conflicts aren't so nationally engrossing and taxing that every effort we make as a people go into it.

Ark

[edit on 24-6-2004 by Arkaleus]

Does a country *have* to have a purpose???

Like Peru -- what's the purpose of Peru? How about Iceland? Greenland? Belize? Japan?

I think countries with purposes are a Bad Idea. Countries should be what they are now: geographic and political boundaries that encompass one or more cultures. But countries with a purpose? That went out in the old Colonial days ("Let's CIVILIZE Little Brown Brother!")

Of course we do!

That is the whole idea behind FORMING A NATION in the first place man!

If we don't have a direction as a people, why are we paying our taxes to a govnerment?

I believe the question should be, what philosophical direction are we taking as a people?

That is what I want to know. Is it exploration of space, the spread of law and liberty, the advancement of medical science and the uplifting of peoples who are in barbarism?

Our leaders and congress NEED to have some kind of philosophy. I don't care what it is, but they'd better have one. If they don't, then THE PEOPLE need one. Just of few of us do, anyway. You are a citizen, though, so we have a responsibility to have these things.

What do you say to that?

Ark

We are a country so that our people can live a good life. We are a country so that our children can grow up educated and hopefully live good lives. We are a country so that our medical professionals can come up with amazing cures for illnesses. We are a country so that we can provide safety and freedom for our people. We are a country so that we can help other countries around the world. We are a country so that we can create amazing technologies for use in many different disciplines.

See where I'm going with this... America doesn't have one single purpose. A country doesn't need one single purpose. America was created to be a country of freedom and prosperity, we pay taxes to our government to keep this great country of ours alive.

This isn't ancient Rome where the purpose of Rome was to take over the world and create an empire. Like someone else said we're not living in colonial times where the purpose of a country is to civilize a people.

I don't think America needs a mission statement other than what you said none of us should answer with... The government should protect our lives, our freedom, and our pursuits (whatever they may be, well except for those that break the laws and infringe on the lives, freedoms, and pursuits of others). That answer is enough for me.

You have illustrated the difference between a CITIZEN and an INHABITANT of a nation.

You have put the burden of "thinking and planning" on other people. You love the products and developments of our nation, which have come about by the intelligent organization of our resources and laws.

We do not live in a kingdom where the people just accept whatever the leadership wants to do. That's what China does. Even China has a nation philosophy, a direction, a purpose for gathering and organizing their people.

We are more advanced, organized, and connected than China. We should have a national agenda that is commonly understood by at least moderately educated people. It should be a nationally debated issue, that's the nature of a democracy and a free people. We are a free people, right?

If you never take thought for the direction of the people, then you are just living under the rule and direction of other people. That's ok if you chose that way for yourself. So what then, are the people you let rule and govern FOR YOU doing for the nation? Where are they taking you?

If you were riding as a passenger in a bus, wouldn't you have some concern for where the driver was going?

I understand that some of our people will never take any thought for the nation or its direction. They will just want to reap the bounty and gain for themselves. That's ok, that's how it works on this world. My question and message is for the growers, the producers, the thinkers, the citizens. We are a nation of such people.

It is a question of philosophy. What is the guiding philosophy of America's leadership? Why do we project power and make war, why do we make policy and treaty, why do we maintain inlfuence in the world? If we cannot answer these questions, then there is something deeply wrong.

You don't expect every passenger on a ship navigate, or steer, but you damn well expect there to be a crew capable of these things, and as paying passengers you should be able to ask of them and find out what they are doing, where they are going.

We are more than passengers in a ship, we are citizens, we have a stake in our country, we are invested in the land, its people, its industries, and its policies. It is our RESPONSIBILITY to have a concept of our direction, and our policies should be matters of public opinion, debate, and intelligent review.

Ark

I got a bitter answer for you, wish it wasn't so but it is what it is.

Starting from a constitutional republic of freedom fighting men with no taxes, and no tolerance for people and groups like the aclu, starting from christian values and traditions, and ending up in a tax paying country, electing lying politicians and having the ignorance to make yourself believe that "he" is the guy, putting up with whiney ass people who get offended by the word bananna and outlawing the word in a school book, to taking a cross off of the california flag.

Having more tolerance for the muslim religion then the christian religion, from banning books, to paying for people on welfare and most of them are on it because they don't want to work.


All in all the country is in worse shape then what it started from.

We started out as a courageous freedom fighting nation who wouldn't put up with taxes, welfare, banning books, ect, and now we're a over sensitive pussied out people in a nation that wasn't made for those types of people.


The purpose of America was and I believe it still should be to keep in tact our consitutional rights as a people and live and dwell in a nation that was built solely for freedom, to live a free life and experience freedom in all it's glory.


Not to stick your hand out and ask for favors, not to put up with excuse making losers who can't get off their ass, not to put up with sleezy politicians who mask their real selves under their snarling grins which the people seem to eat up and take a face value as if that guy is thee best guy for the job and not to live in a nation where your hard earned money has to go to some lazy bum to pay to get her nails done. That was NOT THE PURPOSE of America, but has seemed to turn out that way.

But we get the country we deserve by electing people who stand up for that nonsense. I guess their's more dummies in this nation then I thought.

Or I should say leeches, losers, and babies... And I still say the ACLU is made up of a bunch of people who got beat up in high school...

[edit on 24-6-2004 by TrueLies]

I believe the question should be, what philosophical direction are we taking as a people?

I think you got a lot closer to what you are really asking with this question. Basically it boils down to the meaning of life. What are we on this planet for? Personally, I think this meaning is to be spiritual beings experiencing a physical reality. Nations are formed as a means of protection and a way of advancement to arrive at varied life styles/conditions for not only ourselves but for generations way down the line. As we advance, we arrive at more PHYSICAL possibilities for any given individual and for the race as a whole. The problem I see is the restriction of certain spiritual faculties, but anyway.

Security and protection allows for us to thrive in the state we are already in. Then, some people say that wars allow for the rapid advancement of technology. But even without wars, we would eventually advance just not as fast. And then you got to think, if there was an NWO, what would it serve? It would serve for stablization and centralization, which would make the world a much more effective place...But to what end? Preparing to defend ourselves for an alien invasion, colonizing space?

Anyway, that I look it, I see the end result of a massive centralization of power in which all domestic troubles will be eradicated (control mechanisms) to allow us to look beyond our own planet and into the vast ocean of space beyond. Then I ask myself, if that were the end result and people were unhappy with the state of things, wouldn't they just leave the planet en masse? There are only two options, to completely control the citizens, or to make them so happy with their lives in particularly on this planet, that they wouldn't be in such a rush to leave.

So, then that's you for to decide, are things going to be better for the individual or worse? Freud believes no matter what, we have a propensity or possibility for destruction and agression, which will never make us happy enough. Then, we all believe that we would be happy if we had certain wants, needs, wishes and thus, be truly happy.

Or I should say leeches, losers, and babies... And I still say the ACLU is made up of a bunch of people who got beat up in high school...

Are you kidding me? Like it or not the government does protect you, not always from the government itself, but there are real outside influences that would harm you. In this way, you too are a leech. How long do you think you would make it in the stone age? For a long time it was survival of the fittest, and then groups formed to go against smaller groups, which required bigger groups, so and so forth. And then the idea that controlling nature (through technology) would allow the upper hand. The whole point is that, yea, we have all this technology and manpower and could kill you in a second, but should we? In the words of Clinton, I did it because I could, does that make it right?

BTW, I was always under the impression that cops were people who got beat up in high school. You know, bullying citizens (I have yet to be protected in any way by a cop) like they were in high school. Suffering from the power trip that so many others seem to be afflicted these days with. I think of the ACLU as the balancing power of these organized thugs against individual citizens, which, in my book, makes them braver than most. I thought the ACLU was there to ensure our freedom.

But anyway, there are some other points I don't agree with. But as far as the power-tripping, spoiled little brat politicians, I couldn't agree more. Just because there daddy was president, they are launched to the front of the pack.

[edit on 24-6-2004 by Jamuhn]

Is that what it has come down to? Is that the inevitable conclusion of rational survey of our nation's current condition?

I am more optimistic. There must remain a core of citizens and caring people in this country. I KNOW that a large number of us share the same ideas, and they are sitting there like ready coals to be lit, all they need is a leader and a guide.

America is filled with good people, intelligent people, and they are being nelgected, abused, and harassed by the other half of our society, which has abdicated their lives to the pursuit of pleasure, thoughtless and uncaring for the virtues of self-rule, and none of them will lift a finger for this country.

The problem is that the good people are not organized, they have been displaced from the institutions and industries, and their power have diminshed to the point where they feel impotent and weak. That is why the nation reflects this, her true leaders and true governors have been overthrown by the liars and the thives, the corrupt politicans you so eloquently described in your response.

It becomes a free people to shrug off an evil burden, and to reassert their rightful claim to the inhertiance of the nation, and to put down the growth of evil among their own kind.

Our enemies are not the arabs, the Chinese, or any other nation, it is the growth of evil in OUR OWN LAND, from the dry-rot of the nation by corruption and vice, and by the lack of organization among those people who think and pursue virtue.

That is the cause of every difficulty that we now experience. Our government has become overly fat, and is unhealthy, and can no longer act in the vital functions of maintaining the soul and purpose of our nation, and must be reconditioned and refurbished.

Jefferson commented upon this, saying that it is the duty of a free people to reform is government from time to time.

I am not asking for rebellion and revolution, our system is built for OUR own benefit, WE are still the people and WE train all our rights. All we need is a little organization.

It doesn't take much to start this kind of civil "fire", the people hav elong been without any good leader, and they have been fomented in their own minds, and they are nearly ready for a change. Just a a little bit more heat and pressure and we might just be able to get the changes we need to purge our system and nation of this bile and filth.

Ark

hmmmmmm..... i believe we do live in a "'kingdom' where the people just accept whatever the leadership wants to do" AMERICA is now 'home of the manipulated, land of the ignorant.' America was formed by those who wanted something differant than what thier current goverment was going to give, freedom of a persons personal life, freedom from govt prying into all aspects of life....... AMERICA soon turned into a country that would kill and enslave the indiginous peoples and take thier land......AMERICA is now nothing more than an 18th century colonial power.....if AMERICA can't take something by influence, it takes it by force.

AMERICA thinks that all peoples of the world should live like AMERICA and if they don't....well, then they are just ignorant and AMERICA should show them how good AMERICA has it.

the burden of thinking and planning has purposly been shaped to keep most Americans from being able to understand and have an influence in AMERICAN govt. AMERICA govt is now a a "good ol' boys club." Personal agendas rule the day. the wants on the one, outrule the needs of the many. I believe America is now approaching a 180% turn from its foundings and has now become AMERICA. A corpaorate colonial power, run by businesses, people behind the scene and friends of friends.

America had a choice of 2 roads...that of Americas founding fathers and that of the govt from which the founding fathers came from. AMERICA is on the later track and that has set AMERICAS purpose...........AMERICA WILL influence the world the way AMERICA wants to. period. end of statement.... if you don't like it...so what, there is nothing you can do about it. AMERICA is nothing more than an 18th centuray colonial power and will ,unfortunatly, continue to act that way indefinatly.......

dooood that is a really hard question! i think we cant get away from thinking that we are #1. things nowadays are so seperated and everyman must have the coolest stuff or he is nothing. im a big fat nerd with a great house. my good looks and positive attitude get me through my day to day. no one ever says hello to me because i have not conformed. i dont care about these things all i wish for is a polite person to talk to. i have a great life compared to all the mexicans in my sillicon valley. we all share a common interest. something is preventing us from interacting. its got to be this capitalistic society. is all the nice stuff worth losing touch with your fellow man? this world can sure get mess you up if you let your guard down. that why i stay in with my dsl all day

If the establishment has become corrupt (It has) then it becomes necessary to build a new one.

Just like if you have a house that is rotten, and leaks, and will provide you adequate shelter, you tear it down and rebuild it. Sometimes to keep the foundations, sometimes you can keep the walls, but you have to fix it before it collapses on your head.

We have no need of our current establishment. All we have need of is power, water, food, and infrastructure. That is what keeps us alive. We can organize these things however it pleases us.

We have an entire class of people who have been raised to be our leaders, they are most dispicable lot of rouges and thieves ever to nurse at the public teat. Their philosphy is bankrupt, their religion is satanic in its self-glory and vice, and their public policy is nothing less than combination of powers and the gain of filthy lucre.

Not only are these wealthy classes of men imperfect, they are vicsious and evil, made-up faces covering up beastial souls. The countriy's current situation is the product of their work, it stinks like they do, and is full of the curses of their wicked ways.

That is the root of the problem. I now face it directly, and call it out of the shadows in which it hid, to face the remainder of the free people of this nation in a showdown for control of the nation.

That is the real issue. That is the core of the problem. There must be a war between good and evil in America, it cannot be any other way, for evilhas manifested its ugly festering head, and has lay claim to our Liberty and our Republic.

It has taken one mind to itself, to use America as its nesting place of vipers and serpents, to reach out into the world and establish itself as the governing power, destroying all free peoples, smothering all Liberty, and squashing all free men into the system it has built to sustain itself.

That is the fact, brothers.

It isn't the indians that have come to our settlements, it is another enemy entirely. It is one which claims the souls of men, that takes his mind and turns it into his own resting place, a demonic and utterly evil presense that has invaded our nation.

I speak without any tone of religion or faith, it is a matter of present and immediate concern for the people of America. Our only hope is for the like minded people of the nation to unite themselves in a union, just like our forefathers did. To form ourselves a brotherhood of common interest, common defense, and a rational aim. With the common goal of receiveing our shared inheritance of this land, preserving it from the "spoilt brat politicians" who have thought in their hearts to carve us up like cattle to serve their "system" of the world, to move the great wheels of the industries and institutions for THEIR own benefit, to achieve their global fantasies of domination, universal vice and corruption, endless and unquenchable public consumption, and total submission of the body politic to an obscure and sheltered oligarchy who have bunkered themselves in the upper echelons of our society.

And while in this sheltered bunker these persons have utterly degraded inwardly, their souls have fallen into a deep pit, and they receive no correction, but fall deeper and deeper, while their actions are for the most cynical and self-seving motivations. Such people are a great and evil burden to this country, and they have rode hard the whore of this modern time, which is America and all her peculiar luxuries.

And while they have taken their pleasure with the fallen maiden that was once our cherished virgin of Liberty, they have fasten links of chain to our people, and have pursueded them to heave and pull for their masters, and have sold them useless ideas, false dreams, and lies, and have taken the increase for themselves.

Down with such wicked men, and may their works be broken up and destroyed.

Let the free men of this country find their hearts, and recover their crowns from the jagged maw of this world-lusting monster, which has broken free of its bounds and has ramapged over the whole of the planet. Take a good look at this nation.

Look at your nation, look at her face. If she does not please you any longer remove her rebellion from her breast, take from her the false crown she has fashioned for herself, and return her to her proper place of honor and dignity.

Truly, it is not that we have rebelled against the leadership of America, it is that these certain men have rebelled against the rest of us, and our proper authority, and have siezed it for themselves. Where were you when this was done, you drunken men? How did you resist them, how did you speak against them, how did you fight?

Does your young son say to you, I am a free boy in a great nation? Do you teach him of the right of the citizen, and put a stick in his hand in which to drive evil away, and to establish his own in the land of bounty?

Or do you teach him to serve his masters, and to keep silent, and to fear and cower, like a dog in the street?

Such sons are not worthy of liberty, such father are not worthy of crowns, let there be a great cleansing of such persons from this nation.

Ark



[edit on 24-6-2004 by Arkaleus]

Originally posted by Byrd
Does a country *have* to have a purpose???

Like Peru -- what's the purpose of Peru? How about Iceland? Greenland? Belize? Japan?

I think countries with purposes are a Bad Idea. Countries should be what they are now: geographic and political boundaries that encompass one or more cultures. But countries with a purpose? That went out in the old Colonial days ("Let's CIVILIZE Little Brown Brother!")

Actually countries with a purpose are like America, Nazi Germany and Soviet Union.

These three nations were all born because of a shared ideology, as we can see 2 of these ideologies proved not only horrible failures but they grew powerful enough to destroy a lot of people in the process.

Some nations that didn't grow nearly as powerful but were born in the equal sense were such as the 1st Republic of France, which quickly fell away from its intended purpose into an Empire.

There are probably a few others but they are muddied with Imperialism and such which is not a purpose but a self-interest.

America's purpose is exactly what it says, Liberty, Equality and Justice.

It was to be the "Light" of the world, the culmination of the Enlightenment which was destroyed by the French in 1798.

It is the only tangible piece left of the Enlightenment, and it still is what it intended to be.

I'm sorry Arkaleus but the America you're dreaming about was destroyed in 1867, when the Republicans abolished state legislatures to ratify the 14th Amendment illegally.

The Republicans have since then atoned for their crimes, and it is now the Democrats that are the enemy of our Nation's original structure.

The first question is do we really want to return to the original structure of a true Union of States, or to have the more Federalized system we have today.

If it is the former, there is but one thing standing in our way, the 14th Amendment, it and all who defend it should be burned from this earth and a mountain built of their bones as a reminder to anyone else who might threaten our liberties best expressed through states rights.

Damn counter-culturists, they are the enemy, and the Democrats are their champions.

It is good to see a person recall the necessity of state's rights.

The 14th amendment was indeed the death blow of the Republic - it opened the floodgate of democracy, reduced the value of citizenship to a mere title, and created the business of politics as a popular notion and industry of gain for the wealthy and infleuncial.

Yet the basic truth remains - it matters not what kind of laws the people have, if they are a good and just people they will do what is good and just, and will prosper and flourish. If they are not then it does not matter what laws they have, they will fall into ruin and vice.

Ark

Well I wouldn't say the 14th Amendment created a democracy...what it did was allow the Federal Government the right to declare a State's law constitutional or unconstitutional.

Now for those who can not easily see the irony there, the US Constitution creates the Federal Government, the Bill of Rights are assurances to the States that the Federal Government can not do certain things (The Preamble to the Bill of Rights even assures this).

The Preamble to the Bill of Rights also says that the Bill of Rights being agreed upon by the states, applies to the citizens of the States (in far less words and more vague manners).

But that's what it says.

The 14th Amendment's only redeemable feature is making ALL blacks citizens.

For you see a State could not oppress its citizens because of their Contistutions and such.

But Blacks were not citizens.

By making them citizens of a State they were bound to that State's laws and so forth.

But the 14th Amendment went further, it declared that the Federal Government made Citizens and therefore protected them.

It thus made the States the "Bad guys" (not much unlike the Communists making the freedom loving Capitalists the bad guys) and appealed to the Blacks for this.

When the States would not stand for this dog shei�e, the Federal Government abolished the Southern State legislatures (King George ring a bell? One cause of the Revolution was the King's power to abolish colonial legislatures...) and established military governments instead.

This was the 2nd Reconstruction Act.

In case you're thinking (oh well...the South had to ratify the 14th Amendment to be readmitted to the Union) the South already was Constitutionally readmitted.

And get this...they even ratified the 13th Amendment which abolished slavery.

So the 14th Amendment is nothing less than a virus in our Republic, a cancer.

So kill your local ACLU supporters today, and help remove this damned curse upon our Republic.

The States will not oppress the people like the faggot liberals think, because everyone of all sorts of creeds and races are citizens and would not willingly pass laws to enslave themselves.

Get over your dillusions about freedom and justice, the 14th Amendment is none of these things, once everyone became a citizen the United States was perfect, once the Republic fell to Federal supremacy, (which was a nano-second later) our perfect nation was cast with a flaw that forever will eat us to our doom.

As one Senator said before the 14th Amendment was uncontsitutionally ratified.

(Paraphrased) "We can not tell what the effects will be for the future generations suffice to say that it will replace the States as the protectors of freedom and place it into the hands of the Federal Government."

That has happend, and there are liberals all over who want to force other States to accept their bullcrap views...such as they did with Alabama and the Ten Commandments.

Civil War is brewing

Is war really necessary in our homeland? I don't think it is.

The civil war was a major turning point in our country - our educational systems do not teach us what really occured. It began a federal power growth that was consummated after WWII, when the Federal government became supreme and effectively overcame the states and their respective authorities.

This imbalance in power has made the entire nation unhealthy, it has caused the natural and elegant system of balance establishedin the beginning to sway into disease and corpulence, and it has no reasonable way of undoing itself without major calamity.

Too many powers have vested themselves in keeping it this way, adding to the great weight of corruption and making it even harder to reform and clean up. That is the kind of folks these are: They know the system is foul, instead of bringing the system up to a higher level, they bring themselves down into the mire, and suit themselves to the system.

Such a condition is called DECAY. In physics, it is called ENTROPHY.

In famring, it's like what happens when everyone gathers and no one plants:

You starve.

Ark

It is never good for us as Americans to look at ourselves and sigh. When we see bad things, when we see evil, we have two options: Get angry or fight against it. The other option is of course to surrender, and add to the problem, but that is not something that I think most of you will do.

Think of a machinist and his tools. When he is going to work a particularly tough job, he conisders his abilities, and his tools, and his experiences. He does not say, "this iron is too hard for me," but he selects from his tools the carbide and the diamond coated bits. And when his work becomes difficult, he does not say "I cannot finish this, it is too hard for me." He applies the vice, and the forceps, and he drives all the harder.

It is the same for those of us who are thinking freemen, we are workmen, farmers, builders in our own right, even if only in words and concepts. That is what is like to be a citizen. Citizens are not mere consumers, they get angry at such a designation. It is an insult to a freeman to call him a consumer.

Even if a man is only slighty educated, Liberty and freedom are his inheritance, they are not only for the gifted, the intelligent, and the beautiful. They are for all men who share the same heart and idea of Freedom and brotherhood.

It is the darkest kind of evil that has sprung up in the land that has tried to sieze the nation. Mass consumption, insatiable and fueled by those gifted and intelligent people who have no love for their fellow men, or any concern for his well being.

I will talk about that more later on.

Ark