Are Debunkers and Skeptic's Really UFologists Or Do They Have An Agenda?

This question has in recent years always come into mind.

The surge of Skeptics and Debunkers into Ufology.

Do they really think they are Ufogists or do they have a hidden agenda?

There was a time in the not to distant past whwn Ufology was purely made up of people who took the subject seriously.

In the early days UFO Contactee's met at Giant Rock and claimed contact with Human Ets from other Worlds.

It was normally then to be a UFO Contactee.

Many of the people who were Ufologist in the 50's,60's and even 70's were investigators of the subject .

People like Barney and Betty Hill claimed contact with beings from other worlds.

Howard Menger in his book the Highbridge Incident also claimed of Human Et contact with peaceful people.

Later on as we went into the 60's ,90's and 2000's the UFO Movement got infiltrated by those who did not believe in this subject and instead turned Ufology into what they wanted it to be .

A place for Debunkers ,Skeptics and others who believed that people who had direct contact with Ets etc were nuts crazy needed help .

In truth the ones doing this wanted to completely see the UFO Movement destroyed and the truth never to be told again .

Many of the early Ufologists died over the years and this allowed for a new more skeptical group of people to take over the subject .

So today those who are the Skeptics think people are crazy who believe in Ets and UFOs from other Worlds.

Should not the true UFO Movement take back what has been in infiltrated by the Non Believers they say they seek the truth but they seek something else and thats to stay ignorant and keep others also in that mode of thinking.

Channellers are not the cause of Governments Disclosing or not Disclosing what they know regarding Extraterrestrials and UFOs.

That is sidetracking from the truth which the Skeptics and Debunkers live on.

They will tell you if the Government knew anything we would have known by now.

The Government is the one we need to focus on not Channellers as the escape goat for Debunkers and Skeptics who attack them and those involved in the New Age area who focus on this subject .

They seek the truth aswell.

Its time to stop just going along with Skeptics and start to question authority?

Its time to question the Debunkers and Skeptics in this Country which includes here on ATS ..

Its time for those that are Experiencers ,Believers ,and yes even those who Channel Ets to stand up and stop those who are not seeking truth but wanting that truth never to be found.

reply to post by wesufmcosmic


Wesufmcosmic.....

Before I make further comment, I just want to clarify things.....

This is a "Skeptics vs Believers" thread.....

Correct....?

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

Skepticism and the "art" of debunking are extremely healthy aspects of any field of study. In fact, it is the people who lack skepticism or refuse to debunk that are the most dangerous to any subject. Debunking a hoax is just as important as validating the unexplained.

When you lose skeptics or skepticism, you head down a road that you probably wouldn't want to be on. As far as the surge of skeptics, it's probably due to the surge of hoaxes.


--airspoon

Not real sure what to make of this post...

Personally I feel like the MSM has distorted the topic of ufology more so than skeptics and debunkers. Although IMHO I believe there is something more to the phenomenon than just swamp gas or venus. Skeptics are very welcome in my mind to invoke rational thought on some of the more hardcore believers on ATS. And honestly I am very thankful that we have members of the like here on ATS.

On the other hand you do have some debunkers who only reply in threads without evidence of why they refute a sighting or an eye witness account and that can be very frustrating to anybody.

Anyways interesting thread S and F for you sir

Peace
Gk

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not
reply to post by wesufmcosmic

 

Wesufmcosmic.....

Before I make further comment, I just want to clarify things.....

This is a "Skeptics vs Believers" thread.....

Correct....?

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

Sidetracking the truth already?
Don't you have a real job? Loved ones to take care of?
UFO's research to do?
Explain your bullying...

I have been researching UFO's since grade school. It's easy for the knowledgeable to most of the time tell whether a video is fake or not, or whether the displayed UFO could be a balloon or a plane, etc.

Just because some can see what others cannot, doesn't make them debunkers or skeptics, nor does it mean anyone has an agenda.

To think there is some "agenda" by those who can easily tell fakery, or tell whether a video of a "UFO" is a balloon or a plane, is just flat-out ignorance and close-mindedness.

When someone debunks a video, there's no other agenda going on except that a bunk video was posted.

reply to post by wesufmcosmic


I hate the anti-skeptical movement because really what it is is a pro-gullibility movement. That's really all there is to it. People don't want to use critical thinking and apply proper skepticism to the idea of UFOs. Some would rather jump to wild conclusions or believe the hair brain and wild claims of some people without any evidence to support their claims.

You mention the Contactee thing. I've heard of people who've been in contact with aliens from the future, the past, Venus, Jupiter, the Pleiades's, Grays, Reptilians, Nordics, Insectoids but never once have I seen one ounce of evidence in support of ANY of their wild claims. And yet people believe them...

How are we EVER going to get to the bottom of UFOs without skepticism? If every tabloid style whack-job story is accepted as gospel, everything from shapeshifters to hybrid babies, how are we ever going to figure out what's really in our skies?

Skepticism is the only way to find out the truth, otherwise we'll end up being too open-minded and we'll miss the more obvious and more LIKELY explanations. Of course there are those who'd like to toss out the ordinary possibilities and skip right to aliens and they tend to dominate the UFO community... which is why UFOs are pseudoscience and aren't taken seriously... It is a lack of skepticism that we need to avoid, not an influx of it...

Originally posted by wesufmcosmic
Should not the true UFO Movement take back what has been in infiltrated by the Non Believers they say they seek the truth but they sick something else and thats to stay ignorant and keep others also in that mode of thinking.

No, I don't think so.

Really, there are so many issues that are so much more important that we could focus our time and energy on instead. War, genocide, crime, injustice, pollution, poverty, the collapsing financial system etc.

I try not to waste my time battling it out with "Skeptics" in threads over UFO stuff as I consider that a mostly pointless exercise in futility.

Let the "Skeptics" and "Debunkers" sit around in UFO threads and say that this UFO is just a "flare" or "dust" and that prominent UFO researcher is a charlatan and so on and so on. What difference does it make really?

Originally posted by wesufmcosmic

In the early days UFO Contactee's met at Giant Rock and claimed contact with Human Ets from other Worlds.
It was normally then to be a UFO Contactee.
Many of the people who were Ufologist in the 50's,60's and even 70's were investigators of the subject .

If you go to the middle of nowhere with a group of other believers then of course you aren't going to meet with any skepticism, this however is a large open public community and slightly different. It has NEVER been normal within the general populous to be a UFO contactee

People like Barney and Betty Hill claimes contact with beings from other worlds.
Howard Menger in his book the Highbridge Incident also claimed of Human Et contact with peaceful people.

People still write such books and make such claims today

Many of the early Ufologists died over the years and this allowed for a new more skeptical group of people to take over the subject .

Who exactly are you saying is in charge of the subject of UFO's, how can you be in charge of a subject?

Its time to stop just going along with Skeptics and start to question authority?
Its time to question the Debunkers and Skeptics in this Country which includes here on ATS ..

Wouldn't these actions make you into a skeptic?
It's time to be skeptical about skeptics!?!?

You don't think people were skeptical about UFO's in the past? what about Donald Howard Menzel?

The one [UFO explanation] that received the most publicity was the one offered by Dr. Donald Menzel of Harvard University. Dr. Menzel, writing in Time, Look, and later in his Flying Saucers, claimed that all UFO reports could be explained as various types of light phenomena.

link

Seems to me, debunkers are in the process of re-evaluating their thoughts w/regard to realism of ufos/ebes. More importantly to some or most of these use-to-be debunkers and skeptics is, not to look like a fool.

These days, a fool is the one who trys to discourage people from sayong or sharing what they think, filmed or seen.

Skeptics, in my opinion, have nver or will ever be Ufologists.

Decoy

Originally posted by Granite

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not
reply to post by wesufmcosmic

 

Wesufmcosmic.....
Before I make further comment, I just want to clarify things.....
This is a "Skeptics vs Believers" thread.....
Correct....?
Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

Sidetracking the truth already? Don't you have a real job? Loved ones to take care of? UFO's research to do?
Explain your bullying...

Granite.....

I will be grateful if you will please "explain" how I am "sidetracking the truth already" when I am in the processing of requesting clarification of the topic of discussion. (many thanks)

I will be grateful if you will please "explain" where I am "bullying". (many thanks)

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

the most likely candidate for disinformation and agenda driven lies would not be from the skeptic community

it comes from those in the field that would have you deny skeptism and believe everything...from the icke nonsense, to billy meyers clear hoax, etc..

Nothing turns rational curious people in places of power and influence like rabid insanity that is clearly debunked...and nothing will keep the whole field in the dark better than the skeptics simply not weighing in and dismissing hoaxes and liars.

Sorry if you think otherwise...but if I was building a team of actual researchers bent on finding out the full truth of ETs on earth...I would fill it with skeptics and absolutely no religious type believers. I want to get things solved and understood, not start a blind religion with the first step to be reject reason. Those are the people that are most dangerous in UFOlogy to keep things in the dark.

There seems to be this push to divide people into skeptics and believers but the problem with that is you can barely find any two believers that if pushed on the details believe in exactly the same thing.

UFO's are variously described as being ET's Time travellers, People from the centre of the earth, people from other dimensions, angels, demons.
They are either friendly benign creatures here to warn us or hostile and intent on taking over the world, or sometimes they already run the world.

In order to be classed as a believer which particular sub set of this information do I have to believe in, or is it all ok as long as I believe in something?

I don't think many people actually disbelieve that sometimes people see things in the sky that they can't explain, it's all the other stuff thats the problem

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


I created this because over the years Skeptics have taken over what was once a word called Ufologists.

This a thread where I hope Non Skeptics and real Ufologists present themselves here .

Yes Skeptics verse Believers .

This a place for Belivers to take on Skeptic and Debunkers who have in my book over many years decided to slowing but surely turn the broad spectrum of Ufology into there vision of what it should be .

If everything can be explained away video ,films .experiences,contactees etc then what is left nothing .

Which is there goal that nothing is left and then we go back to the Earth is flat not round belief .

reply to post by wesufmcosmic


Wesufmcosmic.....

Yes Skeptics verse Believers

Thank you for clarifying this is another "Skeptics verse Believers" thread.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

Originally posted by airspoon
Skepticism and the "art" of debunking are extremely healthy aspects of any field of study. In fact, it is the people who lack skepticism or refuse to debunk that are the most dangerous to any subject. Debunking a hoax is just as important as validating the unexplained.

When you lose skeptics or skepticism, you head down a road that you probably wouldn't want to be on. As far as the surge of skeptics, it's probably due to the surge of hoaxes.


--airspoon

I believe its the opposite that is truly dangerous .

When Skeptics take over Ufology and make it there own .

In the past it was Ufology and then on the otherside Skeptics who were not asscociated with any part of Ufology.

Skeptics are not nor will they be Ufologists.

You say the surge of hoaxes what about the surge of real ufo reports around the Globe.

Yes you the Skeptics will deny the real reports and that is what is dangerous .

There are many many many many threads on the skeptics vs. believers topic.

More threads, using a different search


Please contribute to one of them.

Closed.