Video shows militants stoning woman in Pakistan

Video shows militants stoning woman in Pakistan

www.ottawasun.com

ISLAMABAD - Turbaned men in Pakistan gather around a woman with a black hood over her head, pick up large rocks and repeatedly throw them at her until she lies motionless, stretched along the ground.

The stoning in the northwest of the country was apparently carried out by Pakistani Taliban militants, incensed because she was seen out with a man. It was shown in a video obtained by a Dubai television station.

The footage is a stark reminder that despite a series of military offensives the military said had weakened insurgents, militants still control areas of northwest Pakistan and impos

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I don't know what to say aside from the fact this is NOT Islam! These are not humans, I don't know what they are, they are a disgrace to a society already battling it's troubles and they are battering on as if what these horrible people have done is not enough, no where in my Islamic belief does it say ANYWHERE to treat a human being, a living thing as if they are toys. Please don't loose your hope in Islam and those that have, I ask you that we are not anti-peace, anti-religion, etc... We are just going through a hard time.

Regards.

www.ottawasun.com
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Originally posted by Daniyal


I don't know what to say aside from the fact this is NOT Islam! These are not humans, I don't know what they are, they are a disgrace to a society already battling it's troubles and they are battering on as if what these horrible people have done is not enough,

the fact that you are so passionately defending islam in this particular manner, is quite telling. if you were truly at peace with your religion and beliefs, you would not have made these posts.

no where in my Islamic belief does it say ANYWHERE to treat a human being, a living thing as if they are toys.

surely, as a muslim, you are famliar with these passages. or do you not read the koran?

"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)

"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)

"Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

"Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)

"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)

"...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)

"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

"It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)

"If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)

"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)

reply to post by sixth seal


All of the verses are taken out of context, don't waste people's times and don't embarrass yourself by starting a discussion in regards to out of context verses.



The Pakistani Taliban can do what ever they want, they believe in their own version of cultural Islam, you can't force them not to take these actions, because most in that region believe in this type of life style, so don't judge them based on your own life style. Just like they can't force the West to live based on their life style, you can't force them to live based on your life style, that is why Americans are getting killed almost in daily bases in Afghanistan.

The only solution is to let individuals decide their own affairs based on agreements with people around them, and choose their own government to govern their affairs:
You don't have the freedom to choose your government!!

Is stoning an Islamic law? No, not at all, it is a Jewish law, from in the Bible.. The punishment for adultery in Quran is lashing, it is not stoning.

i do not say this condescendingly or whatnot, but rather sincerely and respectfully: it's not good to defend islam. it is satanic in nature. those who promote it or defend it are only unknowingly doing humanity a disfavor.

these words from jesus, the "prince of peace", come to mind:

"Forgive them, for they know not what they do."

reply to post by sixth seal


I think you need to study your history. The Islamic Golden Age lasted from roughly 700 AD to 1300 AD, and during that time it was the shining light of civilization and culture while Europe was plunged in the dark ages. They were leading the world in philosophy, art, literature, politics, and science.

Culture is a FAR more important factor than religion in understanding the current situation in the ME. For centuries, the UK used the entire region as their playground. When the UK fell, US and NATO interests took over the region. They haven't had a decade gone by without foreign superpowers walking and squatting all over them.

This is why Christianity was the epitome of evil during the Dark Ages. Today, Christians are generally considered to be good people. What changed? Certainly not the Bible. But the cultural lens through which that religion was interpreted is what changed. Likewise in the Middle East. Islam didn't change, but the culture has gone downhill, and took Islam with it.

When you look at it this way, in its proper historical context, you begin to see that extremism has nothing to do with religion - it is about oppression. The entire Middle East has become self-isolated and xenophobic. So it is no surprise that the prevailing religion of the area - Islam - is in some cases interpreted with extreme fundamentalism.


The Taliban is hardly representative of Islam anyways. They are a political faction which grew out of US support supplied during the 80s to fight off Communist Russia. To this day they have strong ties to the Pakistani ISI which itself is a satellite of the CIA. The people of Afghanistan hardly support them, but in most cases they have no choice.

It's complicated - but suffice to say, the more you learn about the Taliban, the more you realize that they have very little to do with ANY kind of Islam.

reply to post by sixth seal


Although you took out of context, I am going to tell you something, in Islam, when attacking, you must be attacking on behalf of Allah for a good purpose, but when someone is attacking, does he/she think about that most of the time? Not as far as I know, they fight for themselves, to stay alive and not die, not for God, they forget they are fighting for God and start unkowingly fighting for there self, which is NOT allowed in Islam.

reply to post by oozyism


So basicaly, I can do whatever I want if I convince majority of people. Is that what you are trying to say? That does not sound like you want to let individuals decide at all.

reply to post by oozyism

The Pakistani Taliban can do what ever they want, they believe in their own version of cultural Islam, you can't force them not to take these actions, because most in that region believe in this type of life style, so don't judge them based on your own life style.

The woman in question did not believe in this version of cultural islam, because otherwise she would not have had sex outside marriage. Yet she was forced to die under someone elses idea of justice.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by sixth seal


The Pakistani Taliban can do what ever they want, they believe in their own version of cultural Islam, you can't force them not to take these actions, because most in that region believe in this type of life style, so don't judge them based on your own life style. .

On the same note:

Janjaweed can kill ethnic groups in Sudan because it's their life style.
Chinese can kill Tibetan because it's their life style.
Sunni can kill Shiite because it's their life style.
Iran can kill opposition protestors because it's their life style.

So, if we use the same double standards in that paradigm, US can kill Afghans all they want.
Heck, Israel can kill all the Palestinians she wants. But I'm sure, only the last two oozi disaproves off.

reply to post by sixth seal

the fact that you are so passionately defending islam in this particular manner, is quite telling. if you were truly at peace with your religion and beliefs, you would not have made these posts.

Those actions aren’t representative of the billion other Muslims on this planet, of which you know how many? That’s why they made the post and it's pretty obvious but nice try.

surely, as a muslim, you are famliar with these passages. or do you not read the koran?

You forgot this juicy one - "If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death."

Oh wait that's in the bible. Here are some more:

digg.com...

reply to post by oozyism


There is that word again.........................context, must be awesome to use somthing so non personal as context. Maybe to you those words mean something else, all love light and happiness, to others they mean something entireely different.......Just a quick question if you would though.................how angry is Alllah gonna be when you didn't follow his word to the letter because you felt actually following it was taking it out of context?

Originally posted by sixth seal
i do not say this condescendingly or whatnot, but rather sincerely and respectfully: it's not good to defend islam. it is satanic in nature. those who promote it or defend it are only unknowingly doing humanity a disfavor.

Do you realize the irony of this statement? You are a fundamentalist like these Islamic murderers are, so, in effect, you are supporting their actions by legitimizing their backwardness.

Anyone who believes in the mad ramblings of ancient religious scribes is simply lacking in intelligence, and there is plenty of that worldwide, whether we are discussing Afghanistan or Alabama.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by oozyism

 

So basicaly, I can do whatever I want if I convince majority of people. Is that what you are trying to say? That does not sound like you want to let individuals decide at all.

My point is that both Taliban and the US is forcing others to live based on their own lifestyle.

The majority? That is how it is in the West isn't it?

I don't believe in that crap, that is dictatorship at its best form, hence it deludes people in to believing they have a freedom to choose their government, that is BS.

They don't, the representatives do, and the representatives can choose who ever they want, even against your wishes.

Individual means you, just you deciding how your affairs are handled, and who should govern it. There shouldn't be one government within a country, there should be multiple, and they should be competing for trust, not for power.

A government's job is to govern the agreements and affairs of individuals.

Let me give you an example, if me and you make an agreement, that if you steal my property you hand should be cut off, and if I steal your property, my hand should be cut off, then we choose a government to govern this affair, this agreement between us, and to enforce the punishment if such activities are proven to have taken place.

Get it?

reply to post by Maslo

The woman in question did not believe in this version of cultural islam, because otherwise she would not have had sex outside marriage. Yet she was forced to die under someone elses idea of justice.

The Taliban are no different than the West hence in West someone steals then they are sent in prison, heck in US there are over a million prisoners. Get it?

They are two of the same, they are control freaks, what happens when you put two control freaks in one house?

Originally posted by adifferentbreed
reply to post by oozyism

 

There is that word again.........................context, must be awesome to use somthing so non personal as context. Maybe to you those words mean something else, all love light and happiness, to others they mean something entireely different.......Just a quick question if you would though.................how angry is Alllah gonna be when you didn't follow his word to the letter because you felt actually following it was taking it out of context?

Have you read the verses before and after?

Don't waste my time, I have had these discussions before, how about you bring us all those verses, not in isolation, but in context..

Let me give you an example:
"Don't pray, if you are intoxicated"

Now take the first part of the above sentence, and forget about the second part, then boom, you have what? You have a message which says don't pray..

Sorry mate, not everyone is that stupid, to open a book and read one sentence and say the book encourages us to follow that sentence.

Not even those terrorists who blow themselves up are that stupid, they don't do it because of Islamic verses, but because of extreme ideologies formed due to extreme conditions set by the US backed dictators in Muslim nations, hence the ideological master mind of Al-Qaeda was a moderate, until he was tortured in to extremism..

reply to post by oozyism

My point is that both Taliban and the US is forcing others to live based on their own lifestyle. The majority? That is how it is in the West isn't it?

No it isnt. Western states are constitutional republics, majority cannot decide all matters. Most importantly, you cannot legalize breaking of basic human rights, even if majority wanted to (for example legalize murder). But Taliban legalized breaking human rights, even AGAINST majority. It was certainly not even remotely comparable to western democracy.

I don't believe in that crap, that is dictatorship at its best form, hence it deludes people in to believing they have a freedom to choose their government, that is BS. They don't, the representatives do, and the representatives can choose who ever they want, even against your wishes.

They cannot impose laws which break basic human rights, and if they dont do what people wish, they can freely disagree, vote them out, and even punish them. All of these important factors were not present in Taliban dictatorship.

Individual means you, just you deciding how your affairs are handled, and who should govern it. There shouldn't be one government within a country, there should be multiple, and they should be competing for trust, not for power.

I agree. As long as one of them does not start to break basic human rights, even if majority of people wanted to. If it does, I am all for other governments taking it down, even militarilly.

A government's job is to govern the agreements and affairs of individuals.

And protect their basic human rights and insure basic needs.

Let me give you an example, if me and you make an agreement, that if you steal my property you hand should be cut off, and if I steal your property, my hand should be cut off, then we choose a government to govern this affair, this agreement between us, and to enforce the punishment if such activities are proven to have taken place.

Government which would allow such a punishment breaks basic human rights (one of them is a right for adequate punishment for crime and ban of innapropiate or cruel punishments) and should not be allowed to exist in 21st century by other, more civilized governments. And I see nothing wrong with taking it down even with military force, if other means (subsidizing disidents and opposition..) are not enough.

Libertarianism of states (independence) does not mean they have a right to everything, even if majority of their citizens agree, since majority can be easily influenced to support or at least dont mind horrible acts, or cannot stop them in dictatorships (Nazi germany, Taliban, Iran, North Korea...).