A technocratic government and resource-based economy

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So I've just finished watching the first two Zeitgeist movies, they sure do provide a lot of food for thought don't they, can't wait to see the 3rd. First I want to state I'm far from an expert on politics or economics, but I want to discuss the way we run this world on broader level, and how I think we can change things for the better, for everyone. Oh, and nor am I American. Zeitgeist makes it pretty clear the elite are stringing us along, taking us on a ride of perpetually increasing debt. False flag operations, currency regulation, disinformation, economic hitmen, fueling both sides of a war, engineered scarcity - these are but some of the ways the elite supposedly manipulate us all. I need to now quickly sum up what the second Zeitgeist movie explains in more detail, and then move onto some other things.

The central bank controls US currency, and production of it... it does not simply supply the US Government with money... it loans it to them, with interest... then by increasing or decreasing the supply of currency the central bank can regulate the value of the currency being issued... and because they control the monopoly on all US currency, and lend it out with immediate debt attached, the money to pay for all that debt can only come from the central bank again, therefore they need to perpetually increase their money supply... thus, leading to slavery within self generating debt which is literally inescapable. If the US were to pay off all it's debts completely... you wouldn't have even one dollar left in circulation... and would still be in debt I'm assuming.

Another interesting part of the movie tells of a man who challenged the foreclosure of a mortgage loan provided by his bank...claiming the bank is basically inventing the money and putting up nothing of their own except for a theoretical liability... he argued both parties need to put up an equal and legal form of compensation... in legal terms this is called "consideration"... and he actually won the case... now, the ramifications of this are staggering... "Every time you borrow money from a bank, whether it is a mortgage loan or a credit card charge, the money given to you is not only counterfeit, it is an illegitimate form of "consideration". Hence voiding your contract to pay, because the bank never had the money to begin with." - quoted from the movie.

A good topic they get into is the inherit and underlying "competitive" nature of capitalism. It creates a system where everyone is treated as a virtual enemy instead of a potential friend and team mate. It causes everyone to work against each other and try to achieve more, be more famous, or the most popular and cool kid in school, or top of the class... life becomes nothing but a meaningless war to achieve more than the next person and say you're better than them... in the end we are lost to the machine... purpose and meaning becomes obscured and fades away into the ocean of grey, souls marching mindlessly... I believe a "better" world is possible... a more colorful one... one where you don't work to live, but live to work... one where we become truly FREE and EQUAL.

To understand this society I and others propose, you need to understand true Human nature. We are made to excell, develop, and advance. It is the core of who we are as a species and sentient life form. We DO like to work, to create, to craft, to manifest ideas from nothing and turn them into a reality. It is this creativity and inquisitiveness which defines us and drives us... but the real trick to all this... is creating an environment where a persons creativity and productivity can flourish... first, there is no boss, we decide when we want to work... and also, we don't get told what work to do. Furthermore, we do all this work for free. Is it starting to sound some what unlikely? Well, think again, your opinion may begin to differ periodically as we get into the concept of a resource based economy.

Consider open source software, professionals dedicate enormous amounts of energy and time for free to create the vast amounts of brilliant open source software we have available today. Apache and Linux alone power a vast amount of the websites we browse daily. Firefox is also one of the most popular and customizable web browsers, and it too is open source. If you reward something, do you get more of the behavior you want? If you punish something, do you get less of the behavior you want? These are two very interesting questions which will be posed and answered in the video I am about to show you. It turns out the answer to these questions is a lot more interesting than one might initially assume. This is a crucial part of this post, so please watch it:



By now it should be clear Humans clearly long for meaning and purpose in life. Do you really want to go through life exactly as it has been laid out for you since your birth? Doesn't the work which steals your life away get a little tedious when you still seem to stress about providing for your family on a regular basis? Is the inequality in this world not so apparent and infuriating that you just want to scream? Is it not utterly disturbing that the richest 2% of the adult population own more than half of all global assets? We need to cut the top right off of the pyramid. These scum bags have clearly used us like tools for too long. I suggest technocracy as a viable solution. Again, I'm not an expert on this ideology. Wikipedia states:

Technocracy is a form of government in which engineers, scientists, health professionals and other technical experts are in control of decision making in their respective fields.

This is basically all we need to care about, forget all the other details. Zeitgeist touches upon the fact that politicians usually have little general knowledge when it comes to problem solving and technical issues which they are actually in the position of solving. These people have no idea, neither does the President. They aren't "experts" at anything except perpetuating a corrupt and out-dated system. I argue we need real technical experts, with real knowledge and problem solving skills to solve issues relevant to their areas of practice. Get rid of the whole "one man at the top" concept. It allows for too much pushing of the agenda and ill informed, bias decision making.

We have a group of professionals at the top who make the final decisions. They have transparent backgrounds and an honest history. All decisions aren't left to one man, but rather each elected official must have an equal say. The core of this Government system (and the resource based economy) will be based on a concept of "helping each other instead of working against each other". Therefore, we hope to get each person at the top to work with each other and solve problems together, instead of them trying to each push an agenda for the particular sector of the Government they work in. In this way, we create a Government that truly has the interests of the common man in mind, and by eliminating money all together with our resource based economy the banks can no longer enslave us in debt.

We can balance out this inequality, we can get rid of the corruption, we can create abundance and stop the scarcity of resources. By creating a resource based economy we can tap into our full potential, technologically and socially. Instead of being stuck in a mind set where we work against each other, we work with each other in order to solve problems more efficiently. The mind set will be completely reversed. Instead of working and selling goods and services, those goods and services will simply be given away. Of course you will also receive free things when you need it. There should never be "not enough" because all those mindless "physical labor" type jobs are done by robots, and thinking is done by Humans. We benefit from cutting edge science and nothing is suppressed for corporate benefit, real people come before fictional entities.

No longer will corporate interests and profits suppress the advancement of mankind. No longer will we be unable to utilize technology and alternate forms of energy which have been suppressed by the fat cats for years. No longer will scarcity plague the people of the world. No longer will we be exposed to mind-numbing forms of media and advertisement day in, day out. No longer will the Earth be stripped of life and beauty at an unrelenting rate. No longer will Humans be guided by fear and greed... no longer will we live in an illusionary matrix like system founded on lies... no longer will we live in ignorance... no longer will our lives be empty and meaningless... no longer will we be robbed of the right to LIVE!

Feel free to dispute my arguments. Thank you for taking the time to read this thread.

To finish up, some quotes shown in Zeitgeist:

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous than standing armies... if the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of currency... the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of their property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"The refusal of King George II to allow the colonies to operate an honest money system, which freed the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators was probably the prime cause of the revolution." ~ Benjamin Franklin, Founding Father

"The bold efforts the present bank has made to control the Government... are but premonitions of the fate that awaits the American people should they be deluded into perpetuation of this institution, or the establishment of another like it." ~ President Andrew Jackon


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Wow...unexpected lack of response and interest...anyhow, I have to be going shortly, so come on people, any thoughts on this?

I saw the 1st and 2nd edition and they explain exactly what is going on in this country and the world. I thought the ideas that the venus project brought to the table were good and think they would make the future brighter for all of us. Every american would watch this film and figure out whats really going on, before its too late.

reply to post by CHA0S


It's more than I can process right now and comment on fully. I watched the video and it seems to match my personal feelings fairly well.

I never could produce best in what I like if money was really the motivator. I do work on free software and I'd say I put my passion into that sort of thing to a greater degree than what I have been payed for. I've never wanted to ruin programming for me by receiving monetary compensation. Any cleverness I contribute in that work, I'd rather just give away so everyone has access to it; I don't even care too much about credit for it, just so long as it isn't locked away as "proprietary IP".

reply to post by EnlightenUp

I never could produce best in what I like if money was really the motivator. I do work on free software and I'd say I put my passion into that sort of thing to a greater degree than what I have been payed for. I've never wanted to ruin programming for me by receiving monetary compensation.

I agree completely. I'm actually a web developer myself, and I find my best work comes out when I'm just doing something in my free time. In fact, I also tend to put off a job a lot more when I'm getting paid for it. If it's something I want to do, that thought isn't on my mind...I'm actually having fun...in fact, I can honestly say when I'm programming away at something I'm doing out of my own free will I can be having the time of my life, it's like my opium in a way. Money just ruins everything.

reply to post by Ashes of the wake


I agree, more people really need to see this movie, for those here who haven't seen it, I would highly recommend it for anyone, not just Americans.

Alot of people have seen the Zeitgeist series. They must be sitting there, as i did, asking themselves: wtf can i do about it? Im just the average wage slave. You know what? I'm going to stop watching these documentaries, it's depressing really.

The Venus Project? Without governments backing it up, it will never happen.

Though I am going to watch Zeitgeist 3! I am very curious! With the series they made a lot of people quite hostile towards the 9/11 situation. That's certainly a big plus.

I dont think anyone can argue against aiming for a resource based economy, its how damaging the transitional period would be, how far the people who gain from the current system would go to keep their interests/power intact and what it would take for mass awareness and mass acceptance of a new system of living to occur which is debatable. Zeitgeist and other technocratic organisations need to try to go more into how the transitional period would work, obviously its an incredibly hard thing to calculate because of the shear number of variables involved with working out how to organise a complete global change in system but an estimation of how we could accomplish such a feat needs to be realised and shown as part of the movies, Although i like Jacque Fresco and co and what they advocate, I and im sure many more people are left disapointed by the lack of any serious information on how the venus project ..etc think the transition would work..........

I dont think anyone can argue against aiming for a resource based economy, its how damaging the transitional period would be, how far the people who gain from the current system would go to keep their interests/power intact and what it would take for mass awareness and mass acceptance of a new system of living to occur which is debatable. Zeitgeist and other technocratic organisations need to try to go more into how the transitional period would work, obviously its an incredibly hard thing to calculate because of the shear number of variables involved with working out how to organise a complete global change in system but an estimation of how we could accomplish such a feat needs to be realised and shown as part of the movies, Although i like Jacque Fresco and co and what they advocate, I and im sure many more people are left disapointed by the lack of any serious information on how the venus project ..etc think the transition would work..........

I think Zeitgeist series correctly identified the problem (Fiat currency issued with interest in unlimited amounts by obscure entities), but failed to provide the solution - the whole RBE and Venus is just too vague and unreal IMHO, and also unneeded - the problem is current flawed monetary system, not the concept of money as a medium of exchange itself. The solution is obvious - just return to commodity backed money issued interest-free by the state, disconnect banks and banksters from money-creation and problem is solved, no need for abolishing the whole concept of money, which is one of the best inventions mankind ever made.

reply to post by cyberjedi

You know what? I'm going to stop watching these documentaries, it's depressing really.

Well, the truth can be hard to swallow...as they say..."You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!"...I think this really is so disturbing and plainly obviously when you actually look, that people would just rather ignore it because that means they don't have to shift their thinking or shatter any paradigms they've been holding onto for a long time.

reply to post by Jackson Vega

Zeitgeist and other technocratic organisations need to try to go more into how the transitional period would work, obviously its an incredibly hard thing to calculate because of the shear number of variables involved with working out how to organise a complete global change in system but an estimation of how we could accomplish such a feat needs to be realised and shown as part of the movies

I completely agree, the transitional period needs more explanation. It would be quite damaging unless planned for adequately, which isn't really much of an option because the most powerful forces on the Earth are working non-stop to make sure that doesn't happen. What it will take is an equal power to resist, perhaps a sort of revolution may be the only way to overthrow these elites which refuse to budge. In the end, however it is achieved, I think all that really matters is we come out of it for the better in the long run, anything is better than remaining in this cage. It's time we break free.

reply to post by Maslo

I think Zeitgeist series correctly identified the problem (Fiat currency issued with interest in unlimited amounts by obscure entities), but failed to provide the solution - the whole RBE and Venus is just too vague and unreal IMHO, and also unneeded

I agree, it was a little vague and unreal, but there is clear potential for real plans which could work, first we just need to pulls down these walls which hinder our development, and figure out what we have to work with.

The solution is obvious - just return to commodity backed money issued interest-free by the state, disconnect banks and banksters from money-creation and problem is solved, no need for abolishing the whole concept of money, which is one of the best inventions mankind ever made.

No, we need to treat the root cause of the problem. Even if we were to manage to disconnect banks from money-creation, the root problem inherit of a capitalistic monetary system is that greed and competitiveness fuel it, this always leads to corruption, it's an inevitable result of the whole ideology. People ultimately come after corporate interests. Needs, interests, motivations, all this changes when you reverse the system to something where these problems no longer arise, because money is obsolete. A large fraction of crimes are ultimately related to money and would not happen if money did not exist. Men warned us generations ago that the bankers were big trouble, there's no stopping them, corruption will always come back when you have a system that operates on how well we can feed off and trample over others to make our way to the "top".

My own opinion on the venus project is mixed, while I wholeheartedly agree with their veiws on moving beyond capitilisum, which I belive cannot be fixed, remember: its more profitable to sell a hundred remides than a single cure. what we do should not be decided by what is profitable but what we have the ability to do, what is benificial and what the people want.

yet I also opose the project on issues of governance, while doctors (experts) should of cource run the hospitals it is the public as a whole who should decide when/were to build one. I favor a socity broadly like what the project sugests but govened by direct democracy and informed rather than controled by experts; other wise we simply swap an economic elite for an intelectual one.

My own opinion on the venus project is mixed, while I wholeheartedly agree with their veiws on moving beyond capitilisum, which I belive cannot be fixed, remember: its more profitable to sell a hundred remides than a single cure. what we do should not be decided by what is profitable but what we have the ability to do, what is benificial and what the people want.

yet I also opose the project on issues of governance, while doctors (experts) should of cource run the hospitals it is the public as a whole who should decide when/were to build one. I favor a socity broadly like what the project sugests but govened by direct democracy and informed rather than controled by experts; other wise we simply swap an economic elite for an intelectual one.

My own opinion on the venus project is mixed, while I wholeheartedly agree with their veiws on moving beyond capitilisum, which I belive cannot be fixed, remember: its more profitable to sell a hundred remides than a single cure. what we do should not be decided by what is profitable but what we have the ability to do, what is benificial and what the people want.

yet I also opose the project on issues of governance, while doctors (experts) should of cource run the hospitals it is the public as a whole who should decide when/were to build one. I favor a socity broadly like what the project sugests but govened by direct democracy and informed rather than controled by experts; other wise we simply swap an economic elite for an intelectual one.

reply to post by AnonymousJ


Wow...tripple post!

what we do should not be decided by what is profitable but what we have the ability to do, what is benificial and what the people want.

Exactly...that is what a resource-based economy is all about. By completely removing money and therefore profit, we remove scarcity and suppression of technology and sciences which help benefit society and the planet in the long run. Nothing is controlled by corporate interests.

yet I also opose the project on issues of governance, while doctors (experts) should of cource run the hospitals it is the public as a whole who should decide when/were to build one.

It will be up to architectures and engineers to decide the deigns, placements, layouts etc of towns, cities and buildings. Of course "the people" will get a say in things which concern all of us, indeed with a technocratic government compared to the present, the people will actually have some degree of reasonable control and influence. All I'm saying is, we need actual "experts" who know what the hell they're doing. It's utterly obvious the system is so broken because greedy morons have no idea how to solve a problem correctly, nor do they even really want to solve the problem, because it's a problem for us, not them, and perpetuating it usually means more profit, protection from their own short comings, and a tighter grip on the population.

Great Post. S+F for you! I'd give a million of each if i could.

I have the Zeitgeist: Addendum on DVD, I'm assuming that's the 2nd one?, and I loved it. I truly think this could work, but it's going to take work from all us regular folks. The elite at the top will no doubt fight this for all they're worth, but we far far outnumber them!

I don't know if I'll see anything like the Venus Project in my life time but there's always hope.