The Destruction of Modern America

reply to post by mnemeth1


this is specfically the mentality i was speaking of if an american wants something do it yourself.

there is noone in the world that any person should be counting on except themselves.

there is only one person in the entire world that you can depend on that will never let you down and who always will be there.- YOU.

the expectations of americans of today is that there will always be someone else to do everything and anything for you.

the majority of americans today have no concept of what self and self reliance and self responsibilty mean,

and its clear in this and every other thread on ats.

reply to post by inforeal

Liberals amaze me at what they can accomplish in the attempt to do the right thing, while taking down everyone else in the community, state and location that they are at. Lets look at modern American History and the states, and attempt to see where the ideas of the progressive liberals have taken effect in the society and country at large.
Liberals tend to do the stick on the wall policies. Name a topic and a liberal has the solution that may or may not work, and force everyone to deal with it, often forcing people to accept rather than see that the solution does not work, or forces all of the population in an area to be severely unconvinced by the policies and borders on the violations of the law. They try to force progress and change only to have it blow up in their faces, when it comes tumbling down.
Social security was when it was created was a good idea, but originally was not never intended to be used as a sole means of income. It was there to assist the people in a time of dire need. It is an entitlement that has grown way out of proportion and both the Conservatives and the Liberals and the progressives abuse it, using it like a blank check book and credit card, and never paying back the money that is stolen. It is the ultimate in a Ponzi scheme with predictions that by 2012 to 2020, it will be bankrupt, and all of those people who are on it, will be out of luck.
Deny people health care? Really, last time I went into any ER, I got health care and looked at. And most surprising, is that many states, cities and counties have programs already to assist those who need health care and to see a doctor on a regular basis. And on top of that, if the hospital and medical centers are on the ball, they know all of the grants and programs to assist people with health care and free medicines. Where I live, every single hospital in the area and county have on the walls of the admissions about sliding scales to help with medical costs. Oh you do have to do the paper work, provide things like proof of income, bills and residence, but wow free health care. No one in the country is denied health care and ultimate it will never be free, as we all have to pay for it, either by taxes, or private insurance.
Wow, ever think of what would happen if all of the people who were out of work, did not get a paycheck, there would be a mass migration to the states where the jobs are and the country would jump start, why keep providing money for the long term and keep people where they are at? Maybe it is time to take a reality check and start to swallow our dignity, roll up our sleeves and do things like scrub toilets and flip burgers for a living. It may not pay 50 or 60 K a year, but hey it is income.
Well if the Unions kept out of the political area, people would not have a problem. If Unions would take the time to realize that if a state or a company is doing back and actually give up some of the concessions, just maybe they would be viewed in a good light. But hey, the biggest political lobbyist group out there is: A UNION. The current problems with most states budgets are: Union contracts and the unions not willing to give up the biggest pensions. I guess that the days of unions actually helping the workers is long over and it is just a political Nazi that runs roughshod over its members.
Military budget: Don’t know about you, but hey I like to sleep at night knowing that I am going to be protected against a foreign power that may attack us, big military requires a big budget and equipment. Things cost and requires money. The military does not fight for free.
The Rich, well they are keeping the country going, and as they do have the money, and are paying taxes, well then it is only fair that they get to help vote on laws that may be favorable to them.
Well they don’t give welfare to the corporations, they give tax breaks, with gives a business the incentive to set up shop in a town or a state and put people to work. Take that away and where do you think those businesses are going to go: Overseas to more favorable conditions.
Well guess what, reality is if a business is only in the US or one country it dies, and goes out of business, or can no longer afford to do business, so it has to be global for money. Businesses are there to make money not to give to charity.
Well the values of America is the following as you have asked:
Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, a country where it is a government of the People, for the People, by the People, where every one is equal in the eyes of the law, as justice is blind, and the final thing that a conservative stated as a value and statement: Ask not what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country. To the people of the world, ask not what America can do for you, but what we can achieve together.
Actually folks should read more from the history of the United States, and what the past presidents and congresses thought and said, it is alot more informatitve about what all they wanted for their children and the generations were to come.

Oh there is one other thing, as you keep mentioning health care, that you forgot to mention and it is worth mentioning. The state of Massachusettes has what Obama is trying to force on the rest of the country, and guess what, Massachusettes is facing a big time budget problem at this time frame as it is unaffordable to its citizens. And with a projected shortfall in the billions, one must ask what are they going to cut to make up the difference in that small state?

When my father was a youth in the 1930's, he and his mother and siblings had to leave their home temporarily over fear of their house being fire bombed (molotav cocktails) by workers demanding the changes we now take for granted. As a man, my father never worked a union job, but nonetheless always said that because of unions he worked a 40 hour week, had paid vacations, and benefits.

There used to be something called World Fairs, where American corporations showed off their innovations to the world. Americans were proud to have helped "their" corporations obtain the marvels on display. I attended the last World's Fair, Knoxville, Tennessee, 1982. After 1982 corporations wanted to shed any connection to America, preferring instead to be known as multinational ("global" today).

When Communism fell, I remember reading a condescending article how Russian engineers could only find jobs in baby bottle factories. Hell, at least they had jobs! Our laid off engineers were told to become pool cleaners!

With the global economy, big business is multinational, no longer owing allegiance to America (but wanting every American tax/ tax dollar benefit), and doing business is no longer "patriotic". These Chamber of Commerce multinationals no longer care as much about America and Americans, because they can make their growing profits elsewhere. Hell, they can even give the finger to patriotic Americans by moving their headquarters elsewhere. Cheney's Halliburton.

As jobs were sent elsewhere, no jobs of equal value were created in America! Young people are told nowadays to go to college in order to be able to get a job that pays well. And just where are the jobs needed that pay well? They are not in the service economy created to replace manufacturing; and the finance sector jobs imploded the economy (and the economies of even nations that trusted Americans to be honest brokers).

Ronald Reagan's first actions were to bust the air controller's union and take down the White House solar panels, signaling a return to Big Oil (money to other countries for energy instead of generating our own renewables....ultimately letting China win the energy race.)

The American public has been badly served by their leaders for three decades. Politicians could care less if they were voted to office based on cultural issues, as long as they could use their political office for personal power and monetary gain.

As I await to possibly view another attempt at a rocket launch from Vandenberg, I am reminded of the days when all Americans were proud of what their nation accomplished, being number one in space. Sadly, Americans have been taken advantage of, their wealth stolen, and their dreams stolen.

Taxes could be zero, and no jobs of worth created or dreams dared dreamed. The total destruction of America can be avoided, if Americans are not lead backwards in time but instead are led forward to a future the status quo cannot dare allow to be imagined.

You bring up a valid point that I pointed out. At one time the Unions were there to help the people to ensure that they were not abused by the employers and businesses. But now days most unions are no longer there to serve the interest in helping the workers, or trying to make things better, rather getting involved in with politics to buy the votes of politicians, and are often the biggest special interest lobbyist group out there. I have worked in three different fields in my life where they were union jobs. The first 2 I had no choice as the union was well established in the fields at the time. The third however, used political means to where it was forced on all of those working in that field to become members of a union via state law. Make no mistake the last one was tantamount to draconian measures and tactics to force people into the union and get them to do what they wanted and vote, often holding their very jobs over their heads. Ever since the days of Jimmy Hoffa, and when Caterpillar dared to do what no other company had, broke the union, the reputation of the Unions were no longer what it had once been. The signs of unions no longer being in the interest of the worker were present. 2 of the Unions I belonged too, were found in a federal court to be corrupt, and the leaders were sent to prison. So needless to say I do not support or believe that Unions today are for the good of the worker.
I also agree, that it is the poor leadership of this country from the local to the federal that ultimately has led to the decline of the growth of business, and the lack of jobs these days. The problems with running a business is all of the regulations that a company must try to get through to get a business started and all of the different fees, licenses and regulations that can be confusing trying to figure out. The best case example of this is the petroleum industry, as so many people tend to view them as bad. There are 2 parts to this industry, upstream and downstream. Both parts are separate companies. The upstream is what drills for the oil and makes the gas, and the downstream is where you get the gas. Here is the truth on the matter concerning the oil companies. First they have to do the research and get the experts to find the oil, that takes time, money and manpower, then once they find a prospective spot, samples are taken, and a few holes are drilled. But before they do that, well they have to pay for the permits to explore. Yes that is permits, usually one at the state level and one at the federal level. Then once they have determined a spot, more permits and fees to do the test drilling. Now here is what many people fail to understand, then if oil is found, and this is the US, there is a waiting period, more experts come in, analysis on the environmental impact studies have to be done, a mock up on paper has to be made, submitted, and then approved, taking several years, and of course, there is the money that they are paying out, and have not even pumped out one drop. Then once the entire go ahead is given that they can drill, the next step is that they have to have a refinery, and that costs time, money and manpower. Normally from what has been seen, the refineries are only in a few states, so there is the transportation costs and more fees involved in moving the crude to the refineries, where the oil is turned into gas, employing hundreds of people and engineers to do such. Once is it made into gas, it goes into a storage tanks, and those require a lot of permits and regulations, from the city, county, state and federal levels, along with a crew who has 10 times the work to do, to keep it running and prevent any leaks. From there it is moved to the downstream. Mind you that all of the taxes along the way are being paid on this. When it gets to the local gas station, there it goes in to be sold. But no so fast, here again, the down stream is taxed at the county, city, state and federal levels, and of course the costs of running a business and all of the regulations that have to be maintained, along with the storage facilities and inspections and paperwork that has to be kept for years on end. This is even before one cent has been seen as profit. Most gas stations make only about 2 to 3 cents for every gallon sold, the rest is paid in the way of taxes, fees and back to the oil companies, that are not making that much on it at all. So the government decides to give them a hand and tax breaks to ease up on the costs, as they are getting paid from both ends of the business. Short story, you have a horse that you are taxed, pay taxes on the hay going in and pay taxes on the manure that is sold, so all parts are taxed all of the time.
Now if you ran a business, with all of the problems and regulations in the US, if you could save money elsewhere would you not go? Remember businesses are in this to make money, not for charity.
Want to get a booming economy again, the solution is both easy and hard: 1) Unions need to get out of politics and be willing to take cuts when the company is down. 2) The government needs to ease up on the regulations, fees and taxes that they put on a business. 3) The different agencies need to be willing to compromise when it comes to allowing for companies to set up grow and become productive, and be the same across the board, not have 5 different sets that a company has to follow.

reply to post by AzoriaCorp


Speaking of Constitutional RIGHTS , the Following Video is Proof that the are Being Violated Every Day by our Federal Goverment . ...


New Airport Security Measures .........


www.youtube.com...


When will WE The PEOPLE simply say NO MORE ?

reply to post by sdcigarpig


Corruption, no matter where it exists (unions, business, govt, churches) should be rooted out. If laws are violated or, for example, health care providers/businesses defraud Medicare costing billions, jail time or restitution must be paid,

For three decades now, unions did make concessions. One major concession was in new hires, who can make, for ex, one-third of the old wage, further helping the family and national economy to deflate/implode. Employers seem to be well represented in govt, so should employees.

Manufacturing (or refining) can involve pollutants or safety issues. American companies went elsewhere to avoid doing a better job at home. Are Americans supposed to put up with pollution and safety issues?

America transitioned from carriages to "horseless carriages" and prospered. One job was gone, but was replaced with one of higher value. And with assembly plants, these horseless carriages could be made for all, not just a few who could afford to buy a car built one at a time.

Thirty years ago, America had a chance to transition from the equivalent of carriage, oil, but choices were made at the national/govt level to continue relying on carriages, resulting in geopolitical wars to continue our "way of life". Instead of lessening our dependence, we became even more dependent. Instead of kissing and holding hands with Saudi princes, we should have thumbed our noses at them years ago and been truly independent.

Life is increasingly complex nowadays, with the attendant complications. I want the construction regulations there so my house and roads don't collapse in an earthquake. Some of the regs created are ones big business has no problem with; the regs for Medicare D were understood by big business lawyers, but the small business pharmacy owner was overwhelmed.

While I've seen things get done through agency cooperation, sometimes lawsuits intervene. Pressure groups can put pressure on lawmakers. ACORN was a true grass roots pressure group, which is why TPTB cheered at its demise. The original TPM was co-opted and turned into an astroturf pressure group, which is why it is still around..

For three decades, transnational corporations have fought for control of American power for its own use, trying to wrest it away from citizens. Citizens were set against each other, divided up to be conquered. Soylent Green may have been people, but corporations are not citizens. It is time all citizens join together under the banner of Corporations Are Not Citizens!

It took thirty years to get to this point. It will take a while to turn things around. A cruise ship takes a longer time to turn around than a 13 foot sailboat.

reply to post by AzoriaCorp


Wow. Only in America, can the word "progressive" be considered as a bad word.



Yes, let's throw out labor reforms and all that in favor of an outdated document that was left in the dust with the introduction of the USA Patriot Act.

reply to post by desert


You have some valid points, but here is the issues at hand, the jobs in the United States are going else where in the world, and there has to be a root cause and a trade off. Targeting rich people does not help, cause it is the money that they provide that often gives many businesses the start up capital. Yes there does need to be regulation, but it needs to be uniformed across the board, there can not be a county, city, state and federal guidelines for a business to operate and manufacture, along with all of the fees and permits, cause that gets added in. In some states, it is very hard to get a business started cause of the redundant regulations that regulate the operation that a business has to do, and too many agencies get involved and can kill a business before it even gets started or can bring an industry to a stand still where it can affect the entire country. Would you agree that humans are more important than a bait fish, like say a minnow? Most people would think so, but according to the EPA, a bait fish is what effected an entire industry and affected the entire country, when they turned off the water to prevent the levels in a river from getting to low and thus the farms in central California came to a halt. The EPA did not come up with a solution that would provide for not only the fish, but also the farmers, they did not care about the humans, just the fish. It is regulations that provide no solution or help to the businesses that cause problems.
When the law makers do not read the laws that they pass, and major employers come out and state there is a problem, that does not help, that is a sign that things have gone terribly wrong with the country and the root causes need to be looked at. One of the main reasons that many businesses and companies are not hiring is that they are looking at the cost of health insurance at this time frame, and the bill that was passed did nothing to help with the costs, if anything, before this law goes into affect, they are going to raise the cost of insurance across the board, and the main reason is that they are protected in some states. What that means is that you can drive your car and move to another state, and the insurance that you have on your vehicle is accepted in all 50 states, but if you move, your health insurance will not follow you to another state, so you will need to get a new policy. It is those kinds of laws that hamper the growth of industry that is causing the most harm.
I do not argue that at one time the Unions were a good thing that everyone benefited from, however, today, they are no longer there for the interest of the worker, but for themselves and only used as a political tool for the politicians who are wanting contributions around election times. The Unions are the biggest special interest group in DC and are often involved in politics, and the question of what is their purpose for? To gather votes for one candidate or is it to help the people that they represent? While unions are not a company in idea, they act like one in actions, providing services and collecting money from those who are in their organizations. And is it fair that if a job is non union before, that when a union gets involved a person is told either join up or you are fired, or they just take money from their checks every month, even though they were stating no I do not want to be a member of the union? No, at one time, a person could opt out and not even have one cent taken out of their checks, yet today, that is no longer the case, and it gets to be very messy.
Acorn was at one time, by its own charter, a very good idea, however, when the founder embezzles funds, when finances from this group is so muddied and confusing, when they pushed for banks to give unsecured loans to people who could not afford them in the first place, did they do the country and people any favors, or was it pure self interest? And when candidates, that are in office, are not doing their jobs all cause ACORN is involved, then that is a problem unto itself. What makes matters even worse, is that after the person who embezzled money from ACORN, and the rest of the board at the time covered it up, he left and then went and started another group just like ACORN. So now you can see the ultimate problem there is that the people who are setting up groups are doing it in self interest and then turning around and doing it all over again, after the first group falls. This is not correct and perhaps, these unions that are shown to be corrupt need to be killed off and let another come in with the warning if it happens again, that industry can not have a union.

reply to post by sdcigarpig


Jobs. Americans want to work, are productive workers. And sometimes, such as with these workers, they have to fight for their jobs.

I can remember a woman who got off welfare during the Clinton years by getting training for hotel maid work. She could support her children. But pretty soon, her hotel maid work morphed into the category of "work Americans won't do" and workers were insourced to help drive down wages. While her old wage helped her buy at WalMart, this new group of workers found their wages acceptable for buying at swap meets.

As American workers found their income not able to keep up with the level acceptable to afford the ridiculously rising housing prices, "creative financing" became rampant, reaching the point where interest only mortgages became the only way a young family might afford a house. And lending institutions sprang up to hand out these creative loans! These creatively crafted bad mortgages were then peddled around the world as investments, with the resulting casino crash.

I have heard it said that autos in America were being built as the vehicle not necessarily to be driven on the road but as a vehicle to make loans. Likewise, the home became a piggy bank, with brokers cashing in. The jobs-leaving-America trade-off for Americans was to build an economy as the world's financial institution. The best and brightest brains in America turned not to careers in engineering, technology or science but into finance. Any wealth held by the majority of Americans was siphoned away.

Water has always been a huge issue in CA. Unlike other areas where crops are grown with rain directly on crops, farming is done by pumping water through pipes, ditches, canals. Water intensive crops were often grown by flooding the field. The fight of northern state water ending up going south (literally and figuratively) does involve fish, sometimes fishing along the entire West Coast.

The way we pay for health care in America is a godawful mess. Why should a great part of what I pay for medical care be given to a business that has nothing (or everything, if they come between me and my doctor!) to do with my health? Just the opposite of a "death panel", when my sister died recently, we had to intervene to let her die with dignity, and not let the health care providers make more $ of off Medicare and insurance, as they were more than willing to do.

Like autos and houses, American bodies have become a tool to make money, whether by doctors, hospitals, pharmaceutical business, etc.

Global trade has been going on for centuries, although now it is not done on the backs of camels or taking months for goods to arrive. What has changed is that labor has gone global. America had its own form of labor movement to lower cost areas, for example, when auto manufacturing went to the Southern states.

What is troubling is that the private sector chose not to replace outsourced jobs with anything of substance. When making a hamburger was said to be "manufacturing", something is just wrong. The jobs that left will not return, and without a vibrant middle class, our way of life will not be the same again.

Major players in the private sector no longer need to care about Americans. We the people have been left behind in the dust of the rush for global markets.

Instead of throwing $ at fighting wars to keep our "way of life", American leaders (private and govt!) should have been helping Americans to change our way of life for the better, for the 21st century, rather than drain away our life. Little wonder vampire movies seem to be the expression of the American subconscious.

reply to post by The Sword


"Progressive" has become a bad word because it is a code word used by pseudo-Marxists, just as "Peace and Justice" is a code word for societal/governmental theft and the elevation of the "poor" above other citizenry. When the constitution makes all citizens equal under the law, it should be ruthlessly enforced both against the rich who want special privileges and the pseudo-Marxist advocates of the "poor" who want special treatment for their chosen tools.

It's highly amusing to read comments from European social-democrats, whose governments have found it impossible to continue to fund the huge national udders that their citizens have been conditioned to suck for their livelihood. The UK has become an economic wreck whose own citizens have turned their backs on their heritage and see nothing worth defending in their own culture.

Americans are not Europeans, and least the Americans living between the two coasts are not. There will be no Europeanization of America without "the blood of patriots and despots" being spilled. Anyone who thinks that the citizens of Texas, Oklahoma, Arizona, Wyoming, etc., will surrender to a social-democrat end run around the constitution has a very tenuous relationship with American reality, as the left usually does.

reply to post by desert

But in the articles that you are mentioning, only serves to prove my point, that there are other issues that are affecting the job market that is causing the lack of jobs in the United States of America. After reading the first issue, that is a labor law issue that was presented, did all of those workers really need to go on strike, or could it have been proven in a court of law some of the things that were mention, especially on the part of discrimination. There is an old English law that would apply here, even a free prince of Europe is bond by the laws of the land. That means that company that is operating in the United States of America, is bound by the same laws that governs a company whose headquarters and production are here in the US. What this does is hold a company hostage to the fact that it can not just hire and fire at will, as many states are, and forces them to keep a bad employee on. Now some of the parts of the contract, I would agree, that a Union is required, but for the other parts, well no, it is not needed. Now if they are so concerned about the workers in the US, why are they getting involved in other countries? And way are they getting into politics by forming a caucus? That is what I mean, they did some good, but are getting into bed with the politicans and starting to become a special interest group to get their agenda pushed and it is not always what is best for the country. I got this information straight from the unions web site.
You mention about the hotel person and now how the influx of people who are working for a lower wage is influencing the wages in the US. Well this proves the point that the root cause of that is illegal immigration issue and the large number of illegal immigrants in the US, taking the jobs that so many people need and affecting the wages that are paid. The US federal government has been well aware of these people for years, as the very problem goes all of the way back to the 1940’s. There are many solutions that have been presented, but it is the very federal government that does absolutely nothing about such and often tends to prevent the solutions. With the water, well there you go, once again proving my point on how the EPA dictated and affected the entire communities.
Medicare and Medicade, is a problem on its own self, as the Federal government keeps cutting the amount of money they are willing to pay a doctor and so fewer doctors are willing to see more of those patients, with a growing number of the population getting to the age when they will require them, thus creating a very real serious problem with quality health care for all those who need such.
And once again the bottom line comes into play and on what people will and will not purchase. If you have 2 similar items, one made in another country for 5 dollars and the one in the US that sells for 10, which do you think the public is going to purchase, the 5 dollar item.
Ultimately the solution is going to be that we have to help ourselves and the country, and stop looking for the government for solutions as that never works. It means that people have to be willing to shell out a few more dollars for an product purchased in the US and not from China, it means that We the people have to put pressure on, and hold the elected officials accountable for the lack of actions where the solutions are very simple and time to real in some of the regulatory agencies when all they can do is cause problems and create no real viable solutions as well as look at the long term effects of the laws and policies being made.
For myself, I think it is time that the US closes it doors and hole up for a few years, not dealing with the outside world and focus on itself for once.

reply to post by desert


I really liked this bit you wrote:

Major players in the private sector no longer need to care about Americans. We the people have been left behind in the dust of the rush for global markets.

Instead of throwing $ at fighting wars to keep our "way of life", American leaders (private and govt!) should have been helping Americans to change our way of life for the better, for the 21st century, rather than drain away our life. Little wonder vampire movies seem to be the expression of the American subconscious.

...and the defence seems more like the Stockholm Syndrome than anything else. Looks like AA is right: They have to hit bottom and lose everything before they admit there's a problem.