I watched 911:state of emergency on C4 in the uk and what exactly did Bush do that day?

I would be interested to know how often Bush went to a school class to visit the children. Is this something which he did on occasion, without it being given any publicity, or was this something unusual?

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by markygee

 

I watched 911:state of emergency on C4 in the uk and what exactly did Bush do that day?

Well he started the day off right by going back to the third grade to finish up his education? I
mean the guy was try'in at least to do the right thing. To bad things turned ugly that day,
who knows how far he might have gone?

Spacecadet

I want to know, what would people expect him to act like in that situation, he is in a roomfull of children, and the nation is being attacked, should he have panicked, what? What reaction do you think would say, 'he knew' or 'he didn't know'?

I imagine anything but guilty would suffice.

edit on 12-9-2010 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Ha ha ha lol!

So, Bush remains calm in front of an audience of children and gets heckled. They fly him to a safe location out of concern that the WH and DC may not be safe. This is protocol.

Sorry folks, but this was the first time that our nation experienced such a large attack on multiple targets. Just how was Bush supposed to react? If he panicked he would be criticized even more than he has been for staying calm while his staff made further arrangements.

Should he have acted like this

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal
"The question that strikes me is that the reason given for not getting Bush out of the class room was because they didnt want to frighten the kids."

I guess endangering the children's lives was a much better option than frightening them. Assuming, of course, that the children would be frightened to death by GWB standing up and saying he has some important business to attend to and excusing himself.

"The best part of the whole doc was seeing Card and Rice trying to convince everyone that W. was in anykind of danger at all his reaction was one of confusion to me if there is any doubts about the POTUS being nothing more then a figgure head watch this show and see Rice pretty much confrim it."

Basically, GWB was hung out to dry. No doubt, to intimidate him into following the insidious script which was to be played for the next seven years of his presidency. Maybe at the time he had some delusions of actually being in power and he needed to be set straight in his beliefs.

"Which basically sums up my OP - what did he do? he did nothing,"

Which is exactly what he did through his entire presidency...nothing.

"We had Cheney and the various high ranking officals running the country that day basicly the president's job was to comfort the nation and using Condi's words: "to make sure people knew that the world was not going to end."

Translation: Bush was an amateur who wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and could not be trusted to put on an act, therefore, he was left mostly in the dark about the events which were transpiring. He later confirmed that he could not be trusted by slipping up and stating that he viewed the first "plane" to impact with the WTC on television, which raises a question as to what type of secret "television" he was watching.

"And imo they would have probably considered it easier and more foolproof just to lie to him and get a genuine reaction, than to count on him to be any good at faking it."

Yep. They took the lesser of two evils and he still managed to raise suspicion by screwing up his comments. It goes to show, when you're dealing with an imbecile, you can never be sure as to how he will respond to a difficult situation. In summary, the decision by the planners of 9/11 to leave him out of the loop was a no-brainer.

Thats what I was trying to imply but doing it with less elequence.
To me my instincts tell me in that classroom he had the look of someone who had just been crapped on and couldn't do a thing about it.

Another thing, on the programme BUsh's phone wasn't working on 911 and he had to use a non-secure standard mobile phone, I bet they switched it off to stop him hassling them and interfering while they were conspiring around him. You don't need a patsy president bugging you while your secretly trying to run the country.

"Just how was Bush supposed to react? If he panicked he would be criticized even more than he has been for staying calm while his staff made further arrangements."

So you equate calmly asking your audience to be excused because you have some pressing business to attend to as panicking?

While his staff made further arrangements? Can you be any more vague? Guess what? These arrangements are already planned out and made well in advance in the case of an unforseen emergency situation encountered by the President and his men.

This was obviously a situation which one would think required some quick decision making by those in power. Obviously, Bush wasn't the go to guy for decision making that day because he was left out of the loop. Hence, one of the reasons why he was left there to hang for what must have seemed an eternity to him. How degrading.

Okay first, in command and control situations, the head does NOT ever make the call on immediate situations.

People with military backgrounds and executive experience would know this.

There was nothing he himself could do immediately.

Hell, look at the plane that flew past MSP for what? 1 1/2 hours and NOTHING was done. Two sleeping pilots is my assumption on that incident.

Look at ALL the contingency plans laid out. One step at a time.

In my eyes, the contingency plans were either inadequate, or were messed up. Meaning the exact scenario that happened was what the military drill that was running.

Kinda beggars the question, if the odds of that happening was about million to one, what are the odds that only a few years late that the tunnel bombing and military drill happened at the exact same time.

These are things that I ask. Not how somebody looked or acted. As I said, what would you have had him do. Call up air unit so and so? He would not know these things.

This is the part of the investigations that I NOTICED did not get much coverage in the OS. I usually stayed away from the rest of the argument. Being that I think the OS was close.

Anyway, I thought of the non investigation of the failure of command and control on that day was typical of failures like with LEO's. Cannot let the peons know that the government is fallible and all the trillions of dollars can be beaten by only a FEW individuals.

That may ACTUALLY wake up the country to realize that ALL THE RIGHTS they have taken from us was for NAUGHT. NOTHING. NADA.

My opinion.

"what would you have had him do. Call up air unit so and so? He would not know these things."

Bush was a qualified jet pilot in the air national guard wasn't he?

I know he's only human but as the US leader at the time it would be nice in my opinion for the american public to watch a documentary about the one of the most pivotal moments in history and see what their president at the time was doing for them not for him to be remembered for his apparent lack of action, thought and the fact he dissapeared for about 12 hrs, on air force 1 a vehicle with some of the most advanced comms system on the planet. No 30 sec speech or anything to say that he was with the public and supporting them. It makes him look bad even if the secret service was following protocol.

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower


fair comment but then he appears weak when the mayor of NY was on tv before him and hands on from almost the start not that im saying he has to go on tv but these official reflective documentaries paint a not exactly positive picture of his capability and usefullness at the time.
(I don't want to start Bush bashing I just wanted to discuss his 'apparent' indecisiveness or be proven wrong otherwise).

reply to post by markygee


"C.Rice even rang Putin up to talk about escalating levels of security. Shouldn't a president ring another president?"

well to take a stab at answering that question> i dobut bush had any kind of secure telephone or comunications device with him at the school where as the white house is set up for that kind of thing presidents dont talk on open lines even if shtf back to the op good point on his facial expression something alwase struck me as weird when i saw the look on his face

this doco was made to fool tha sheep n weak minded i cant belive tha bs they peddle, that black white bit#h was smiling even enjoying herself in tha doco, in commercials leading up to it they sed investigating conspiracy theroies n all this nothing i live in australia it was on about 1 weeks ago. the whole thing stinked pplz wake up!

reply to post by bsbray11



Mm, not to mention the fact that in his place I would not have wanted to put the children at risk. Under the circumstances of multiple, unexpected terrorist attacks of this kind I think I would have asked that the school be closed to keep the children safe and would, as you say, have left immediately.

I too think this whole strange situation at the school is suspect. I would have expected the President to be whisked away to safety, and would have expected him to spring into action immediately.

Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
There was nothing he himself could do immediately.

No, he could have LEFT immediately.

It is NOT unusual to take immediate action to protect the president in dangerous situations. When it has just become obvious that a well-coordinated attack on the US is underway, that is a dangerous situation, especially when you just put in the newspaper earlier where you were going to be that day.

You tell the kids you have to be excused and you have important president matters to attend to. What kind of genius do you have to be, to think of that one? Come ON people.



Look at it this way.

It could have been many more terrorists flying many more planes, and they could have had potential hijackers standing by at every major airport with detailed information of where each flight was heading and what targets would be available for that flight course.

Since it was already published that Bush would have been at that elementary school, it is not any more unlikely to believe someone could hijack a plane from Florida and crash it into that school building intending to kill the president there.

When you have just learned that 2 planes have hit the WTC Towers, and you are in communication with military officials (as the SS was) and other hijackings are still a real possibility, though a theoretical unknown at this time, (Flight 77 going off-course over West Virginia somewhere in this time frame and Flight 93 later being off-course as well), it would be RE-TARD-ED to stay put and just wait and see what happens to the president.

Like I said, if someone had hijacked a plane and flew it into that school building around the same time frame.... It goes without saying that the Secret Service would have utterly, utterly failed to protect the president. And what's their whole job again, which they take deadly serious?.... The fact that they were in communication with military intelligence as this was happening, and did not move from their location, tells you immediately that they knew the situation was actually under complete control.

reply to post by bsbray11


Like I said, if someone had hijacked a plane and flew it into that school building around the same time frame.... It goes without saying that the Secret Service would have utterly, utterly failed to protect the president. And what's their whole job again, which they take deadly serious?.... The fact that they were in communication with military intelligence as this was happening, and did not move from their location, tells you immediately that they knew the situation was actually under complete control.

I don't want to believe in conspiracy but when people like you raise questions like this no wonder the conspiracy fire keeps burning.

Where Bush was; the short version:

Within an hour of the attacks, the United States was on a war footing. The military was put on the highest state of alert, National Guard units were called out in Washington and New York and two aircraft carriers were dispatched to New York harbor. President Bush remained aloft in Air Force One, following a secretive route and making only brief stopovers at Air Force bases in Louisiana and Nebraska before finally setting down in Washington at 7 p.m. His wife and daughters were evacuated to a secure, unidentified location.

www.nytimes.com...

Here is a long, thoroughly sourced timeline of Bush's activities on that day, by a disinterested source.


Some interesting exerpts:

6.00am: A van occupied by men of Middle Eastern descent arrives at the Colony Beach Resort, stating they have a “poolside” interview with the president. They do not have an appointment and are turned away. Some question whether this was an assassination attempt modeled on the one used on Afghan leader Ahmed Massoud two days earlier.


8.00am briefing: “The president’s briefing appears to have included some reference to the heightened terrorist risk reported throughout the summer,”

~ 9.00am: One of the meetings attended by the former president was the annual investor conference of the Carlyle Group, which was also attended by Shafig bin Laden, one of Osama bin Laden’s brothers. (Some reports have stated they could watch the attacks from their conference room.)

Just before 9.00am: Ari Fleischer on Bush's motercade informed of large plane hitting towers, reports say Bush not informed.

After 9.03am: White House security staff reportedly urge school officials to send the students home. As the Arlington Heights Daily Herald later points out, “the well-publicized event at the school assured Bush’s location that day was no secret,” and therefore “Bush’s presence made even the planned reading event a perceived target.” Yet Wilma Hamilton, the superintendent of schools for Sarasota County, who is at the school for Bush’s visit, refuses their advice.

On reaching school: One account states that Rove tells Bush the WTC has been hit by a large commercial airliner. However, Bush later remembers Rove saying it appeared to be an accident involving a small, twin-engine plane.

9:01am: President Bush later makes the following statement: “And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower—the television was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, ‘There’s one terrible pilot.’ And I said, ‘It must have been a horrible accident.’ But I was whisked off there—I didn’t have much time to think about it.” He has repeated the story on other occasions. Notably, the first WTC Crash was not shown live on television. Further, Bush does not have access to a television until 15 or so minutes later.

After second crash: “We’re out of here,” the Marine tells Balkwill. “Can you get everyone ready?” However, Bush stays at the school for another half-hour. Who makes the decision to stay—and why—remains unclear, and the Secret Service won’t comment on the matter. Philip Melanson, author of a book on the Secret Service, comments, “With an unfolding terrorist attack, the procedure should have been to get the president to the closest secure location as quickly as possible, which clearly is not a school. You’re safer in that presidential limo, which is bombproof and blastproof and bulletproof.… In the presidential limo, the communications system is almost duplicative of the White House—he can do almost anything from there but he can’t do much sitting in a school.”

Comment: Yet according to Philip Melanson, who is an expert on the Secret Service, “With an unfolding terrorist attack, the procedure should have been to get the president to the closest secure location as quickly as possible, which clearly is not a school.”

In contrast to the Secret Service’s inaction in removing Bush from the school, Vice President Dick Cheney is reportedly “seized by the arms, legs and his belt and physically carried” out of his office by Secret Service agents around this time, in order to get him to the bunker below the White House. Cheney himself says the agents “hoisted me up and moved me very rapidly down the hallway, down some stairs”

9:29 am: Still inside Booker Elementary School, President Bush gives a brief speech in front of about 200 students, plus many teachers and reporters. He says, “Today we’ve had a national tragedy. Two airplanes have crashed into the World Trade Center in an apparent terrorist attack on our country.” The talk occurs at exactly the time and place stated in his publicly announced advance schedule—making Bush (and the children) a possible terrorist target. This is the last most Americans will see of Bush until the evening.

Between 9:30pm and 10:00pm: President Bush is meeting with his key advisers in the Presidential Emergency Operations Center below the White House. Referring to the attacks and the present political situation, Bush tells the meeting, “This is a great opportunity. We have to think of this as an opportunity.”

11:30 p.m: Before going to sleep, President Bush writes in his diary, “The Pearl Harbor of the 21st century took place today.

www.historycommons.org.../11=bush&timeline=complete_911_timeline

reply to post by Kailassa


So you post a timeline that the source is a 404?

Call it disinterested observer?

Really now, very bad form.

Who created this timeline?

What is the end link?

Are all the sources for your assertions linked in the article?

Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
reply to post by Kailassa

 

So you post a timeline that the source is a 404?

You've never misposted a link yourself? Congratulations.
The "Here" link is the same as the link at the end of the list of exerpts, as the context would make obvious to anyone who actually wanted to know.
The link at the end of the exerpts, ( www.historycommons.org.../11=bush&timeline=complete_911_timeline ) works perfectly.

Call it disinterested observer?

I neither wrote nor implied the source was an "observer".
History commons has a reputation as a disinterested source.

Really now, very bad form.

I would call your pointless attack over a single non-working link, which was repeated, and the repeat of it worked perfectly, bad form.

Who created this timeline?

Why didn't you click on the link at the end of the timeline and find out for yourself that History Commons created it?

What is the end link?

Perhaps your post is a joke, and you are trying to imitate an idiot.
You can see what the end link is, History Commons, and you can click on it to open the complete timeline in History Commons.

Are all the sources for your assertions linked in the article?

Show me where I have made a single assertion.
Aww, you can't, because I haven't made any.
I have merely quoted from the New York Times and the History Commons timeline, and they have constructed that timeline from popular news sources, giving the source for each part.
Again, the History Commons timeline is linked to the post, the link works, you could have checked this for yourself.

reply to post by randyvs


lol I have never laughed so hard. You sometimes get it so right I have to fall off my chair. Thanks. Made my day!

reply to post by Kailassa


Yeah, I read through it, sorry about getting on you.
That was a mistake on my part.
The linked timeline was hard to follow the way they sourced the information.
The second time I was able to find the links to their sources.
Sorry for being an...........