Koran/Quran chpt 9 verse 11 says exact opposite of Bible/Torah (Genesis) chpt 11 verse 9

The Quran/Koran chapter 9 verse 11 talks about making communications clear and understood

YUSUFALI: But (even so), if they repent, establish regular prayers, and practice regular charity,- they are your brethren in Faith: (thus) do We explain the Signs in detail, for those who understand.

PICKTHAL: But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge.

SHAKIR: But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know.
Source

[9:11] فَاِنْ تَابُوْا وَاَقَامُوا الصَّلٰوةَ وَاٰتَوُا الزَّكٰوةَ فَاِخْوَانُكُمْ فِىْ الدِّيْنِ‌ؕ وَنُفَصِّلُ الْاٰيٰتِ لِقَوْمٍ يَّعْلَمُوْنَ‏
[9:11] But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then they are your brethren
in faith. And We explain the Signs for a people who have knowledge.
[9:11] پس اگر وہ توبہ کرلیں اور نماز قائم کریں اور زکوٰۃ ادا کریں تو وہ دین میں تمہارے بھائی ہیں۔ اور ہم ایسے لوگوں کی خاطر نشانات کو کھول کھول کر بیان کرتے ہیں جو علم رکھتے ہیں۔

Source

Depending upon which translation of the Quran/Koran one uses, the section corresponding to chapter 9 verse 11 reads something like this:

But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know. (M. H. Shakir translation)
Source

The Torah/Bible Genesis chapter 11 verse 9 talks about making communications confused and confounded and not understood (Story about Tower of Babel)

8 So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel —because there the LORD confused the language of the whole world. From there the LORD scattered them over the face of the whole earth.
Source

9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
King James Bible/Source

I’m no mathematician, math is my worst subject. But, what are the odds that chapter 9 verse 11 in one holy book would read as the opposite of chapter 11 verse 9 in another holy book (Genesis/Bible/Torah)? i don't know.


Just an observation,
et




343 firefighters died 9 years ago. on 9-11, 2001.

A lot of the Qu'ran is like that. Muhammad .. when he faked the divine revelations in order to gain power over the people ... pulled from pagan sources, Christian sources, and Jewish sources to form his new 'religion' (political power movement). He got a bunch wrong when he transposed it. For example .... he says Mary, the mother of Jesus, was the same Mary that is at the time of Moses.

There are tons of things like that in the Quran.

"why I am not a Muslim" - by Ibn Warriq.
Excellent book on the true origins of Islam.

reply to post by Esoteric Teacher


As far as I know the Koran isn't divided into chapters and verses but in Suras. Better luck next time. What IS interesting is that Genesis 11:9* is about the destruction of the tower of Babel.... Sounds familiar?

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


What a cowinkidink. lol.
To me it is more of an coincidence. Nothing else!
This is the verse you're looking for here.
www.biblegateway.com...:11&version=NIV

"As above, so below"

I wonder what the world would be like if we hadn't been subjected to thousands of years of religious bull crap across the board...

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
What IS interesting is that Genesis 9:11 is about the destruction of the tower of Babel.... Sounds familiar?

Genesis 9:11, KJV: "And I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth."

My post means nothing beyond a fact check.

reply to post by NewlyAwakened


Yes, sorry, I'm Norwegian and here we write dates the other way around (as do most languages in the world). I really meant 11:9

Sorry for the mixup

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


It's cool!
Second line up in here!

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
Yes, sorry, I'm Norwegian and here we write dates the other way around (as do most languages in the world). I really meant 11:9

Sorry for the mixup

Ah, fair enough! I like to fact-check claims that are easily Googlable.

It seems the story of Babel in and around 11:9 is just about God confounding the people, preventing them from completing the tower. It doesn't talk about knocking down an existing tower.

But I fear now I'm going beyond fact checking and just being a party pooper, so I'll shut up.

Carry on

reply to post by NewlyAwakened


Yes. Actually the destruction of the tower of Babel isn't ever mentioned in the written Bible. But appart from the Tanakh and the Christian NT there are several ancient traditions, which are infact older than the written versions and basing itself on oral and other, written, traditions. We have the Zohar and the Babylonian Talmud, there are a series of works commenting and explaining what really happened every verse of the Torah. The Tower of Babel was destroyed, but only the alegorical explanation is mentioned in the Beresjit or Genesis if you like. The bricks were words or academic elements and the tower was their language/knowledge, and God is said to have destroyed the building using a ray of light refered to as the "Finger of Jahveh", the same tool he used to cut the ten commandments into Mosjeh's stone tablets. There is more to the Bible than what is actually written there. The Bible, though a large book, is just the short version I'm afraid

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


Genesis 11:9 Therefore its name was called Babylon, because there Yahveh disintegrated the language of the whole earth; and from there Yahveh scattered them abroad over the face of the whole earth.

As for complicating language, or as the Hebrew says: Disintegrating language: How many new acronyms have we had to learn since Bush started the WOT, on the base of objects stocking and using WMD, due to the WTC episode where the MSM said.... and so on.... That's disintegration. Looks like our grandchildren might visit the Peter's Basilica anyway. Maybe USA is Babylon afterall.....

reply to post by Esoteric Teacher


Greetings Teacher!
As you know, I have been a student of the Bible and Qur'an. I do indeed find this correlation rather intriguing!! Thank you for bringing this to light. As of yet, I can not even start to fathom why or how this can be. I would highly appreciate to hear your view, belief, and/or speculation about this.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
reply to post by Esoteric Teacher

 

As far as I know the Koran isn't divided into chapters and verses but in Suras. Better luck next time. What IS interesting is that Genesis 11:9* is about the destruction of the tower of Babel.... Sounds familiar?

edit on 10-9-2010 by Neo Christian Mystic because: changed 9:11 to 11:9

Hello NeoCM.
Each Surah is a Chapter. Each Ayat is a Verse. Islamic tradition states each sentence, each paragraph, and each chapter were all revealed at different times, out of modern written sequence, over the course of 23 years. It is told that Archangel Gabriel met with Muhammad once the entire Qur'an was revealed. Gabriel told Muhammad what order and sequence to arrange the sentences and paragraphs.

reply to post by Esoteric Teacher

Hey Esoteric!
Just to tell you, not that it really affects your point in any way, but the 3rd language in your second source isn't arabic. I think it may be Persian or Urdu.

Somewhat unrelated, but I've recently been researching and looking up verses and passages in the Quran that end with "Indeed in this there are signs for people who... seek knowledge/are pious/who know/etc. (arabic: ...إِنَّ فِى ذَٲلِكَ لَأَيَـٰتٍ۬ لِّقَوۡمٍ۬ يُؤۡمِنُونَ), and verses/passages that start with "Do you not see..." (arabic: ...أَلَمۡ تَرَ كَيۡفَ). In many passages, these two verses are even paired up. It has made for some interesting reading.

Another thing to note: The word "ayat" (arabic: آيات) seems to have so many meanings. In the translations you quoted, it is variously translated as "Sign", "revelation", "communication", etc. It is also used to mean "miracle". In fact, each line of the Quran (what I've been calling verses), is called an "ayat" in arabic.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Originally posted by FlyersFan
He got a bunch wrong when he transposed it. For example .... he says Mary, the mother of Jesus, was the same Mary that is at the time of Moses.

There are tons of things like that in the Quran.

"why I am not a Muslim" - by Ibn Warriq.
Excellent book on the true origins of Islam.

Hey FF! If you got that little tidbit about Mary from Ibn Warraq, I can't say much for his research. There is no such issue in the Quran! Over a thousand years ago, this same issue was raised, and this was Muhammad's response (from hadith in Sahih Muslim):

When I came to Najran, they (the Christians of Najran) asked me: You read "O sister of Harun" (i.e. Maryam) in the Qur'an, whereas Moses was born much before Jesus. When I came back to Allah's Messenger(P) I asked him about that, whereupon he said: The (people of the old age) used to give names (to their persons) after the names of Apostle and pious persons who had gone before them.

Even Muhammad called himself a brother of Moses, and even in the Bible, Elizabeth is called a daughter of Aaron, and Jesus is called a son of David. Are they all being literal?

a reply to: Sahabi

What IS interesting is that Genesis 11:9* is about the destruction of the tower of Babel.

Not true at all. The written Torah does not mention the destruction of the Babylonian Tower.

The oral Torah of Me Am Loez [1689-1732] does give some insight of the destruction of the Tower. The reasons of destroying the tower were many. The destruction of the tower created seventy one languages as well as seventy one tribal nations. It is Hebrew tradition that the people at this time, before the scattering of tribes, were all of one language [known to us today as Hebrew] and with only one dialect. God took one tribe [Abram] and the seventy angels of the heavenly academy each took one tribe. Not all tribes were agreeable and some thirty tribes were annihilated as well as some were given over to become spirits of demons.

Also it is strongly believed by some that the ancients of that era knew of portals between the earthly [terrestrial] world and the celestial world and that this tower was to reach that portal, reunite the universe with the heavenly realm, and once again destroy the curse that God placed upon earth. This played out in the days of Jared when the two hundred of heavenly host did find one of many portals on Mt. Herman [Book of Enoch One].

It is worth noting that the Koran is constructed in a poetic form and translations into English cannot reproduce the special effects that produces. Also the Koran is said to have seven levels of meaning, of which the overt literal form is often the least significant. Frustrating for the rest of us who can't read Arabic, but then Muhammed's teachings were aimed at the Arabs.