N-Word. No place in today's society.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Perhaps you guys have watched the Conspiracy Chicks?

if not let me know who you are, so i can take you off my friends list.

I did for about 5 minutes total before I got a head ache and had to shut it off. Two unqualified girls with no broadcasting experience =/= a compelling watch. Anyhooooo lets get to the important matter here, this one by LifeIsEnergy:

"Fag is worse"? How many gay people have been lynched, whipped and pulled apart by horses tied to their limbs? Matter of fact, how many hundred years did gay people go through slavery? I am sorry, this isn't just a word, and to compare it to other curse words like Bit#h or Fa#got, is truly saying something about you level of understanding of our history in America, and about the history and suffering Black America has gone through.

Fag isn't worse, fag is equal. Fag is the same as the "N-word" as is the B-word or the C-word etc. They are derogatory terms, nothing more. They are offensive to a specific group of people, and in many states are classified as fighting words, meaning if you were to get into a fight for calling somebody one of these words, you would have been considered to have thrown the first blow already by inciting violence.

Black people suffered in America for a good long while, but let's get off this entitlement crap and start moving on with our lives, shall we? Have gays been pulled apart limb by limb from quartering? Yes, actually, for a good long while longer than black people have. Homosexuals had a pretty bad time from post-Roman era til about today. Also currently the number is roughly 10% (1 in 10) of individuals are gay. This hasn't changed in history, which means those blacks who were enslaved, well, about 10% of them were gay as well.

Your examples are irrelevant, and only show prejudice. You believe somehow the injustices done to one group of people is somehow worse then another groups atrocities. All groups have been enslaved, have suffered, have been tortured and lynched. We need to move on and get over this.

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy

Originally posted by King_John
reply to post by LifeIsEnergy

 

I don't really know many Asian or Native American people for me to speak on behalf of their culture,although a few of the younger Asian guys I do know who are into the urban culture do refer to each other as chinkstas from time to time. As for Hispanics not calling each other wetbacks, it stems from the meaning of the word. Wetbacks is used to refer to an illegal immigrant crossing the river to get to America, most Hispanic people I know are legal born US citizens so the word simply wouldn't apply to them the same way the word nigga would apply to blacks.

As far as only ghetto or uneducated black people using the word I find it's more of a social issue, there are many words besides nigga that people from the ghetto use that people from the suburbs don't it's simply a different slang. For the black people that do make it out of the slums to achieve a high paying job not using it, I think it's simply that there coworkers are more than likely white or if not white not from the ghetto to where they would feel uncomfortable or out of place using that term around them.

Well I will tell you this, those other races are not using those words because they have a level of self-respect that many inner city Blacks in America have lost.

And about all those other slang words, like 'fo sho', 'on da G', or whatever other ebonics you can think of, which I have used my whole life and had to consciously try very hard to remove, as cool as it may be, and as much as it may be apart of 'their' culture, it still derives out of ignorance. I feel comfortable saying this is true, because I am being honest and it is something I had to come to grips with about my own self when I was told I was ignorant by many respected Black community leaders for talking like 'dat'.

[edit on 22-8-2010 by LifeIsEnergy]

See I whole heatedly disagree with that, I don't see how a certain dialect equates to a lack of self respect.

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


your credibility in hiphop is nice and all but that still means nothing because thats not hiphop, that is hood. Acting hard? plz thats being soft in my opinion, where Im from you either do or you dont. Now hiphop has nothing to do with the radio or "selling", it is a way of life. I never thought shooting a gun was hiphop and Pac was "confused" but still was that dude. HipHop isnt whats on the radio thats rap music, hiphop music is underground right now. I could come off the top better than most, cuz I am hiphop. I live it and gangsta rap was always a way to manipulate the niccaz from losing their art form and commercializing it. What is a nicca? Nowdayz a nicca is a term used amongst "accepted" minority people. Im latino and I can go anywhere and use the word because "real recognize real" granted in some places where latinos are not mixed in with the black crowd it is not encouraged but still I understand. Nicca belongs and people that gripe about it show their ignorance of its use today. Lack of self worth is a poor excuse for explaining away the "deconstruction" style of hiphop. This remaining generation of hiphop is still taking apart and from the cultures around it that limit its freedom of expression. All of this so called "ettiquette" and blah blah bog down creativity and thats where HipHop gets its fuel. This pop culture rap music is basically stolen hiphop and is pure sex and violence to confuse them into submission. Cmon the best lyricist today and probably ever is Eminem.... who wouldve thought? but thats just opinion

[edit on 23-8-2010 by fonenyc]

Intrepid is right. But those who partake of language such as this won't listen to anyone who tells them the history or the reasons not to speak in such a manner. They won't even listen to the people who lived through the civil rights era of the 60s and 70s. They'll have to figure it out on their own .. if they are smart enough and if they live long enough.

reply to post by WolfofWar


Fag is not equivalent to "nicca". A fag is a fag and is a word used to label a homosexual. The N word was/is used to describe black people in slave days and during discrimination days, then became a word to describe an ignorant minority and now it is used to describe a hiphop participator. But thats my "world" and maybe for you it is different. Still I know where I come from it is accepted and we even have some white kids thats say it and are kool as f&^%. You can claim ignorance to whatever but really? Ignorant to what? who is the ignorant making an issue of a word when there are drugs, poverty, Aids, police and crime in general tainting the minds of the young black youth? Im telling you the N word can be used to bridge the gap between so called "leaders" and black youth. The N word is a small problem and if the N word is a problem to some I guess the "angry black man" still puts fear in America's heart. lol Going NoWhere Trust me!

i shouldn't be doing this but what happened to everyone?

take a look at these clips.

did everyone freak out?

why are they basic classics?

steve martin, i couldn't find the clip i wanted. the mafia talking about the eegplants scene.

www.youtube.com...

mel brooks? lol, i guess he should be erased from history.

www.youtube.com...


this was not that long ago.

what has happened? why the regression?






[edit on 23-8-2010 by fooks]

where i live, we have black people.

no "brothas", "sistas"

and no n-word.

which begs the question, who's today society we talkin about?



but we do have other words. not mine, mind you, from the locals.

they have words for my kind too.







[edit on 23-8-2010 by fooks]

reply to post by Ghost in the Machine


Well I suggest you study further into this subject because 99% of Blacks who were brought to America on slave ships did endure these things. I would say 100% but I will leave 1% open to be reasonable.

And about the "House Negro" comment, if you think some where looked at as family then that is false. This comment may hold a small level of truth towards the end of slavery when the Emancipation Proclamation was signed, but that was nearly 350 or more years after slavery began. Until then, Blacks were looked at as less than human and in no way were considered family. A "House Negro" was generally a child of the Master and a Slave that had been raped, making them somewhat more human and therefore more possible to trust in their house. But they were not able to sleep inside of the Masters house, they only were able to work inside of it verses having to work in the fields.

reply to post by State of Mind


Please don't take offense to this, and you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but are you by chance homosexual? I just don't understand why you are so unhappy with an example I gave about the word "Fag" to help put the word "Nigga" in context? Anyway, I still never said it wasn't a disrespectful term, and I never said homosexuals haven't had a struggle, I do however still believe the Black American struggle and the Homosexual struggle cannot be equally compared. Maybe we will just have to agree to disagree on this.

reply to post by King_John


You know what, this subject is very difficult and there is a fine line that I must explain in further detail which I will do later on today. I will say this for now though, if you are raised speaking ebonics or slang, and never had an opportunity to learn proper English in it's complete form, then I don't believe you can be considered ignorant or lacking self-respect. To the contrary, if you are not raised this way, or if you do have the opportunity to have learned English in it's proper form, then yes I would say that equates to a level of ignorance and loss of self-respect. Again, I will come back to this later. Thanks for being thoughtful and respectful with your replies!

reply to post by fonenyc


When I made that comment on Hip Hop, it was a generalizing statement, and I don't think many of the established artists who have had a long career in that industry going back to the 80's and 90's would disagree.

But back on topic, just because your Black friends don't care if you say the word "Nigga" doesn't counter argue what I am saying. I do fully understand the unity factor that comes into play with minorities in America, and I respect that. I will also come back and go into further detail later on to what my point is, and maybe we can come to some common point of agreement. Thanks for your comments.






[edit on 23-8-2010 by LifeIsEnergy]

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


Ok I would like to build with you on this and come away more knowledgeable and I appreciate your maturity. But I also would like to reference the song by Big Pun " That Nicca Shyt".... lol he pretty much said how I feel about it

personally, i never use the word, i have no reason to offend people.

the funny think is, i've been reading old mountain man- fur trapper journals for years.
the 'n' word was a common word used between white trappers, going back to the days before slavery in north america.
the word was basically stolen somewhere and transfered to use to describe black slaves.

here is one example.

Spoken Language of the Mountain Men: If a modern person were to overhear the conversation of mountain men, it would probably be nearly incomprehensible for a number of reasons. Certain items and activities, common in the early 1800's have disappeared over the last 150 years, and in the 21st century we have lost both the terminology and knowledge. The fur trade was a multicultural-multinational vocation. In a trappers or traders camp French, English, Spanish, and other European languages as well as numerous Indian languages might be spoken. Under these conditions a hybrid spoken language evolved. Osborne Russell, in his Journal, described languages spoken at one winter camp: "I have already said the man who was the proprietor of the lodge in which I staid was a French man with a flat head wife and one child The inmates of the next lodge was a half breed Iowa a Nez percey wife and two children his wifes brother and another half breed next lodge was a half breed Cree his wife a Nez percey 2 children and a Snake Indian The inmates of the 3d lodge was a half breed Snake his wife (a Nex percey and two children). The remainder was 15 lodges of Snake Indians Three of the party spoke English but very broken therefore that language was made but little use of as I was familiar with the Canadian French and Indian tongue." And finally, the mountain men developed their own unique jargon which was peculiar to only to that small community of men who lived beyond the frontier. To paraphrase Samuel Parker's comments from the 1835 rendezvous: They disdain the commonplace phrases which prevails among the civilized countries, and have many self-phrases, which they appear to have manufactured amongst themselves. Indeed, even contemporaries from the states or settlements found the spoken language of the mountain men incomprehensible as illustrated below in a conversation between mountain men John Hatcher, Louie Simonds and a soldier, Numerous examples of spoken language exist, preserved in journals and letters. Some of the most extensive records of conversations that I've found include Lewis Garrard, and Frederick Ruxton, although many other examples exist. Rudolph Freiderich Kurz records the following exclamation of a Mexican horse-guard on learning th t a wolf had robbed his trap: "Jamme wolf dragge de carcasse way from de trappe. No seen una pareilla chose. Ni now putte horse's snoute on de pickette, de wolf no more carry awaye." [And I don't pretend to have a clue what it is that he intended to say] The following example of mountain man dialog are recorded by Lewis Garrard in "Wah-To-Yah and the Taos Trail" during his visit to the west in 1846-47 "Though the wind was piercingly cold, Hatcher was up early, making a fire, “for,” said he, “this hos is no b’ar to stick his nose under cover all the robe season, an’lay round camp, like a darned Ned; but,” he added, in an undertone, as he looked to see if the government men were awake, “thar’s two or three in this crowd-wagh!-howsomever, the green is ‘rubbed out’ a little. This child hates an American what hasn’t seen Injuns skulped, or doesn’t know a Yute from a Shian mok’sin. Sometimes he thinks of makin’ tracks for white settlements, but when he gits to Bent’s big lodge on the Arkansas, and sees the bugheways, an’ the fellers from the States, how they roll thar eyes at an Injun yell, worse ‘n if a village of Comanches was on’em, an pick up a beaver trap, to ask what it is-just shows whar the 'n-word's had thar brungin’ up-this child says-‘a little bacca, if it’s a plew a plug, an’ Dupont’ an G’lenea, a Green River or so, and he leaves for the Bayo Salade. Darn the white diggings, while thar’s buffler in the mountains. Whoopee!” shouted he to us, “are you for Touse? This hos is thar in one sun, wagh! Louy, the cavyard’s out picking grass-half froze to travel.” “Mind the time we ‘took’ Pawnee ‘topknots’ away from the Platte , Hatch” [Louy Simonds] “Wagh! If we didn’t,” chimed in the interrogated [John Hatcher], “an give on owgh-owgh, longside of thar darned screechin, I’m a niggur. This child doesn’t let an Injun count a coup on his cavyard always. They come mighty near ‘rubbin’ me ‘out,’ ‘tother side of Spanish Peaks – woke up in the mornin’ jist afore day, the devils yellin’ like mad. I grabs my knife, ‘keels’ one, an’ made for timber, with four of thar cussed arrows in my ‘meatbag.’ The Paches (Apaches) took my beaver – five pack of the prettiest in the mountains – an’ two mules, but my traps was hid in the creek. Sez I, hyar’s a gone coon ef they keep my gun, so I follers thar trail, an’ at night, crawls into camp, an’ socks my big knife up to the Green River , first dig. I takes t’ other Injun by the har, an’ ‘makes meat’ of him too. Maybe that wasn’t coups counted, an’ a big dance n hand, ef I was alone. I got old Bullthrower, made ‘medicine’ over him, an’ no darned niggur kin draw bead with him since.” “Him?” interrupted Hatcher, wishing to astonish the man, “that boy’s been everywhar. He’s stole more mule flesh from the Spaniards, and ‘raised’ more Injun har, than you could tuck in your belt in a week!” “How raise Injun hair? Like we raise corn and hemp to Callaway county, ur jest like raising hogs and oxens.” “Oh! You darned fool,” retorted Louy Simonds, “a long ways the greenest Ned we see yet.” “No!” rejoined he imperatively, “when an Injun’s a ‘gone beaver,’ we take a knife like this,” pulling out his long scalpblade, which motion caused the man to open his eyes, “an ketch hold of the topknot, an’ rip skin an’ all right off, quicker an’ a goat could jump!” “Whats a ‘gon beaver’ stranger?” again spoke up our verdant querist. “Why, whar was you brung up, not to know the meanin’ of sich terms – we’ud show you round for a curiousity up in the mountains – let’s go, fellers.” We started to another part of the jail, but were stopped by a final question from our brave volunteer to Hatcher –“Stranger! What mout your name be, ef I might be so free-like?” “Well, hos!” returned the questioned. “My name mout be Bill Williams, or it mout be Rube Herring, or it mout be John Smith, or it mout be Jim Beckwith, but this buffler’s called John L. Hatcher, to rendevoo – wagh!” Louy Simonds, jumping up with his ever-ready gun, knocked the ashes from his pipe; and, depositing it in a small leather pouch strung from his neck, black and greasy with time and perspiration, exclaimed, - “This child never stuck around camp when work’s on hand – hosguard, meat huntin’ it’s all the same to him; this ‘mudhook,’ holding out his foot, ‘hasn’t a moccasin on for nuthin’, an’ that’s a fact!” [Hatcher] “Say! My young Shian trader, you’s the chap what stayed with John Smith last winter; ef you’re for b’ar, grab your lightnin’-stock (my rifle) and make “Pimo’ tracks for yon butte. (I had on a pair of Pimo Indian moccasins on, a present from Hatcher, who was then talking to me). “Away down to the Pimo country, right about Heela (Gila) they make the best Injun shoe this coon ever put his foot in-well, hyar’s for meat;” and off he started, Louy and myself in his wake.

spoken language of the mountain man.

reply to post by Serizawa


Heh, i couldn't say it any better homie.

Star for you.

another example.

'n' word usage.

i haven't come across a quote going back pre-slavery yet, but will post it when i do.
i know the word goes back to some of the trappers that sold to the early hudson bay company.

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
reply to post by King_John

 

You know what, this subject is very difficult and there is a fine line that I must explain in further detail which I will do later on today. I will say this for now though, if you are raised speaking ebonics or slang, and never had an opportunity to learn proper English in it's complete form, then I don't believe you can be considered ignorant or lacking self-respect. To the contrary, if you are not raised this way, or if you do have the opportunity to have learned English in it's proper form, then yes I would say that equates to a level of ignorance and loss of self-respect. Again, I will come back to this later. Thanks for being thoughtful and respectful with your replies!

THIS is what I'm talking about. Not "outlawing" a word but that the word has no purpose in today's society. I'd be easier at ease if it was white people using it. That's just racism. Easy to peg. It's the use by the YOUNG Black community that bothers me. The older folks, Black and White, remember the stigma this word has and the power to hurt that it has.

Yes, I agree with your earlier assessment that the White community should take care of it's own self censorship, for a lack of a better word but the Black youth of today should have respect for those that went before them, DID THE REAL work for Black rights.

I look forward to your post.

please sirs,

is this just a local problem?

like in your little western world?

the other 9/10's of the world do not recognize any of that.

tell the 200mil in bangaladesh, couple bil in asia. like they give a crap.

it's a cultural thing, no one cares cept you. lol!

can't you figure it out?


think big! but it sounds like both sides need this, not the NWO or any of that crap. just people who don't know what to stand up for nowdays.

kick back and laugh. when was the last time a cracker plied his trade in the US?

yesterday?

just a word, out dated and has only the power you give it.

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


No, I am not a homosexual, but I know many homosexuals who are beautiful and kind people. And your automatic dismissal as "fag" as simply uncomparable to the "n-word" rubbed me the wrong way. You sit here saying that blacks have had such a struggle, etc. etc. but homosexuals still don't enjoy many of the rights that blacks now have. So to defend one word with such passion and dismiss the other as incomparable like so much trash in a heap is just utter hypocrisy to me

Originally posted by fonenyc
reply to post by WolfofWar

 

Fag is not equivalent to "nicca". A fag is a fag and is a word used to label a homosexual. The N word was/is used to describe black people in slave days and during discrimination days, then became a word to describe an ignorant minority and now it is used to describe a hiphop participator.

Fag actually is equivilant. In fact it may hold even more hate. "nicca" as you put it's earliest etymology derived from negro or neger in Spanish and Portuguese. It later pretty straightforwardly began being applied to slaves.

Fag has a little more roundabout way to reach it's use of being related to homosexuals. Fag is a shortened term of Faggot, meaning a bundle of sticks. It began being attributed to homosexuals during witch-burnings of the inquisition. The church would pile bundles of sticks (faggots) underneath a witch, a pagan, or a heathen. Often, they would round up the sexual deviants, like gays, and tied them up to be burned with the witches or pagans. they would literally "throw them into the faggots" and let them become kindle to fuel the flame for the witches.

Nigga means black.

Faggot means you're kindle for a witch burning.


Which ones worse?

[edit on 8-23-2010 by WolfofWar]

Originally posted by WolfofWar

Nigga means black.

Faggot means your kindle for a witch burning.


Which ones worse?

you are right WolfofWar. they are equal.
after you burn faggots (kindle/sticks) they often look black (charred).

your logic seems to follow to be in the loop.

off topic post:
your earlier post you stated you only watched the first five minutes of the Conspiracy Chicks. too bad you missed what happened in that sixth minute.

happy new years (2013)
et


edit to add:
it is nice to see another who knows of etymological origins of words.
i have a fetish for words myself, Wolf.

[edit on 23-8-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]

This Movie will remind you of the past if you can watch it.

www.moviepowder.com...

A man in a gleaming white suit (William Shatner) comes to a small Southern town on the eve of integration. He calls himself a social reformer. But what he does is stir up trouble he can't control.

Only white people are not allowed to say the n word.I have many friends of all races and I've noticed it's accepted by every race except white people.

Like someone else said,all races were slaves back then at one time.And actually the Egyptians were a black race that had white slaves..the Jews are a white race.

Originally posted by WolfofWar
Nigga means black.

Faggot means your kindle for a witch burning.


Which ones worse?

Funny that both of those are "religious" connotations. Did I say that out loud? Tough. I see no difference in the words. They are both NOT ACCEPTABLE by the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, the basis of American civilization. Cherry picking of the BoR is pretty easy. Makes it perfectly acceptable for the media to hide behind the 1st and do their worst for the populous. The best for their masters.

I'm not joking people. The Constitution is being used against you. Read it. Get the gist. And F.... (can't say that) to hell with the media that's only an arm of the gov't now.