The Middle Ground - Why is it seemingly so rare?

This thread isn't a debate about x versus y versus killatron 400001.0329 v2.0, there are threads on ATS and BTS to debate any issue in particular - I am just using a few examples of my opinions, and will justify them on other threads if/when I can be bothered

It seems to me that with many threads on ATS, people seem to take sides and defend them to the extreme even when the evidence is strongly against them, such as Israel vs Palestine - I haven't taken sides on that, however I support a Palestinian state ran by Fatah in peace and co-operation with all of its neighbours including Israel, and for Israel to also have a peaceful existence. People also seem to be hard-liners on man-made global warming, either they totally believe or disbelieve in it - am I the only global warming, Iraq war and intelligent alien life agnostic?

I admit there are some issues that I do have a strong opinion on, however. I believe that approximately 6 million jews and 7 million others, especially slavs and gypsies were indeed killed by the Nazis in the holocaust - my grandmother, a Polish Catholic, witnessed the full horror of it herself. I am an atheist for various reasons, but I am far from a hardliner, having friends who have all sorts of religious opinions, from devout Christians to atheists like myself. Also, I am an outspoken supporter of gay marriage, and go to great lengths to tell homophobes, including a close relative exactly why I support it, and I am looking forward to another relative's possible future civil partnership ceremony

So, are there any others on here who sit on the fence while others bicker and refuse to concede to another person's arguments, even if they blow the opposing view(s) out of the proverbial water?

reply to post by Lolage


Here are some possible answers:

Those that exist on the middle ground...

1. do not feel strong enough about the topic to post.
   
2. know it is a trap meant to feed the trolls.
   
3. see both sides of the coin are wrong.
   
4. know we do not have the answer and move on to something we can contribute to.
   

Inability to tolerate ambiguituty is one of the classic hallmarks of raw stupidity. Unfortunately, there is a lot of stupidity to go around on this planet. There always has been and there always will be. It's just that 200 years ago the villiage idiot couldn't log on and share his "insights" with the globe.

A big and common error is to mistake a nuanced position for weakness, and to think simplicity always represents strength. That way lies danger. Sometimes simplicity is strength, but sometimes it is just intellectual laziness. People who don't like thinking for themselves are always looking for a chance to turn off their minds and follow somebody or some belief system blindly. It's just so much easier that way! And if doubts start to creep in, just shout twice as loud, that will make the pesky grey area go away.



[edit on 8/16/10 by silent thunder]

Some reasons for holding to the middle ground may be wisdom and hard experience, ignorance, or a desire to be a peacekeeper.

It is a very uncomfortable label "middle of the road," and even the label the controllers gave in the term "middle of the road" instills a feeling of danger and need to choose one side or the other !
I say bah, humbug !

IMO, it is more like "middle of the river" as we watch the flotsam and jetsam speed by in haste to reach the big ocean.

Is it wrong to be Sittin here watchin'' the wheels go round and round?

Middle grounders can more easily masquerade as extremists. A good motive to do that would be to test the defensabilty of a particular position. Also, middle grounding doesn't get much attention, hence, less interactive data is returned.

Note: "Middle Grounders" refers to individuals harboring ambiguity, a synthetic viewpoint, or a completely alternative one that readers may not even be able to relate to, not ones trying to appease both sides that fall into the "fallacy of the middle ground". I think the power lies in the ambiguous.

Ok, enough of that nonsense.

[edit on 8/16/2010 by EnlightenUp]

It's hard to be in the middle when all the focus is on the fringes and extremes. For some reason, they get all the focus and attention, even though neither fringe is representative of many.

It's also hard to remain calm, to be undecided, or to want to wait for facts in this face-paced world. Or to even find someone to talk it logically through with who hasn't already formed a snap opinion (or had it formed for them).

Then, by the time the facts do come out, it's passed by, and no one seems to be listening anymore or care and the memes are set into the consciousness. Seems people more want the rush and not the reality. I guess that's due to conditioning?

And what's really fun is to ask a simple question about something or question a point so you can learn more about it or try to validate it, and then not only never get an answer but instead get some judgment about which "fringe" you're out here stomping for thrown at you. That's getting really old.

No wonder most people in the middle usually just hush and watch. It's a jungle out there

Oh, and I don't think it's rare at all. It's the vast majority of people. And I view it more as deciding on each issue based on its own merits and facts after thinking about it, after researching all you can; sounding out others about it; applying common sense, reason, and logic; and then forming an opinion based of all of that.

[edit on 8/16/2010 by ~Lucidity]

Originally posted by Asperglar
reply to post by Lolage

 

Here are some possible answers:

Those that exist on the middle ground...

1. do not feel strong enough about the topic to post.
   
2. know it is a trap meant to feed the trolls.
   
3. see both sides of the coin are wrong.
   
4. know we do not have the answer and move on to something we can contribute to.
   

Exactly, which is why we don't have millions of flags, posts, stars, or ATS fame (for whatever that's worth)...

Edit to elaborate.

I am considered by many people I talk to as a rational middle ground kind of person. I *do* in fact have very strong opinions on certain subjects and no opinion at all on others; however, I do not feel it is my right or duty to try to convert people to my beliefs.

As such, I see a lot of threads that I am very knowledgable on, but do not post on because they are not about the sharing of thoughts, ideas, or information; rather, they are ideological slam fests. Sometimes I am bored and try my hand at a social debate, but for the most part, I stay silent and look for interesting threads about my pet favorites, such as alternative history, theoretical futures, and alternate views of reality.

[edit on 8-16-2010 by rogerstigers]

reply to post by EnlightenUp


I'll take a pound of the "Completely Alternative Viewpoint," please.
I found your information quite thought-provoking regarding role-play by middle-grounded posters.

reply to post by EnlightenUp


Agreed and well put. I think. LOL

It's easier to do this when you're not emotionally entrenched already in any particular ideology or passionate about something. It can help you really feel things out.

Middle Ground does seem rare these days, particularly on forums.

Perhaps those who choose it are not weak or un-decided? Perhaps they are finding a Balanced Perspective in their life?

Slowly, more people are seeing that extremes in any endeavour are not such a healthy option in life, and as their wisdom increases they may find themselves tending to middle-ground more often.

This is not to say that they will not decide at some point to fully support an 'extreme' view.. meaning any end of the spectrum of opinions in order to assist making change where necessary. Yet even then they may behave in a balanced manner.

The Media has been pushing extreme mindsets as the norm for a long time now and so we shouldn't be surprised to find so many people tending the same way.

Divide and Conquer is the agenda in play there. Which is something that does not happen for those observing and choosing a middle path approach.

In which case the only healthy response is to develop Equanimity.. to be in the world as an active observer and yet not be effected by any of it.

"Being inthe world but not of it"

(edit for those dyslexic spelling mistakes again)

[edit on 16-8-2010 by Tayesin]

As I have aged, I seem to feel less "passionate" about things that I once did. I do see lots of passion out there, and often, I feel that I can read between the lines, and just see someone younger, and still a bit more on fire. I tend to not want to spoil their party so much, maybe let them enjoy it while they can.

My more usual temptation is to sometimes point out what I see as a kind of "religious" fervor, especially when it comes to some of the "hot" topics, like "global warming". I posted a few on one of those threads the last couple of days, but I really feel like I'm the odd-man-out. And if I find myself saying things like , "calm down", then I'm labeled as "arrogant"...

At times, maybe it is a bit irritating to see people calling each other "idiots", trolls, etc., when each side is so utterly convinced that "science" is solidly on their side. Oh yes, I too can relate to your example of arguments involving gigantic numbers, to the millionth decimal place, and then the charts, etc. Sheesh. And the crazy thing is, they're ALL right!

But, where to draw the line? For me, I feel like things get out of control when there is "too much" of the "absolute". These folks, as "scientific" as they think they are, seem much more like plain old religionists. They really BELIEVE this, or that, and everyone else is completely wrong...

Well, I don't know how much"middle" I really am, we all have things we feel strongly about. I admire strong conviction, don't get me wrong, but when people start losing control as a result, and forget there is actually another person out there, then I start to see it as morphing into a "religious" kind of insanity, and I usually prefer to just let them tear each other apart.

What can you do when the voice of reason is so reviled by all extremists?

JR

I believe ego has a large part in most of it. Long gone are the days of "Let bygons be bygons" and move on with your lives. People now are so caught up in their ego that they cannot handle being proven wrong, or even take into account the otherside of the story. I personally believe the truth lies within the middle ground. Because both sides of the story contain some amount of truth in them.

reply to post by CestLaVie
and
reply to post by ~Lucidity


If the middle ground were truely the well-balanced and rarified composition of choice, one could easily get beluga caviar from and Coke and fries without a fish.

Originally posted by Roadie
Long gone are the days of "Let bygons be bygons" and move on with your lives.

Bygones haven't been bygones since bye-bye-miss-American-pie. Let us all remember, in a solemn moment of silence, when they were.