What Pike Meant (even though you won't believe me)

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
More personal attacks. This is what I mean by Freemasons digging themselves into a hole.

You are projecting again, you cry about the same behavior you consistently show.

Other posters shouldn't have to ask for sources when texts are out there. That's laziness as well as appealing to ignorance (crossing your fingers hoping that the person being challenged doesn't really have sources). Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. In a debate, both sides must provide evidence, not just somebody being challenged by some denier running at the mouth claiming that there's no proof.

There are no texts to support your statements, that is why no one here has seen you post anything.

A while back I quoted directly from ritual, which sent shockwaves, so it's obvious that the Freemasons rely quite a bit on people's ignorance. Yes, the ritual for the 32 degrees of the Scottish Rite are available to non-Masons, but nobody dares to actually spell them out.

Scottish Rite ritual has no bearing on what we are discussing here and there is nothing secrective about the same as it has been in the public domain since Pike revised the work.

irrelevent

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
And thanks for the personal attacks, and for calling me a racist.

If you think you aren't racist, you need to take a good hard look at yourself. And yes, it is possible for black people to be racists.

You look for anything you can to defame masonry, even if it is made up and proven to be so. I wish I knew who did you so wrong, and what they did.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
The Freemasons engage in evil activities and then lie about it. They lie about being a Christian organization, when even the Freemasons on ATS are open anti-Christianity.

OK, I am calling you out. either put up or well, you know.

Which Freemsons on ATS are openly anti-Christianity? And show examples or it's a lie.

and please don't use your list as evidence.

reply to post by network dude


I am a Freemason on ATS. I am definitely Pro-Christianity.

As a Knight of the Order of the Temple, I am sworn to defend Christianity (not it's dogma, simply it's message)

I am a Liberalist/Protestant Christian (more conservative politically).

I am a member of the United Methodist Church and align my beliefs most closely with UMW/Wesleyan concepts:

- Prevenient Grace: In other words God the Creator loves his children before they are born, during their life and after they die and return to Him

- I believe Baptism confers no special privilege, and that infants may be baptized with the parent's consent to symbolize the covenant of Grace God has given this world.

- I believe all paths (religious, spiritual, agnostic) lead to the opportunity for immortal spiritual existence.

- I believe that we are not sent to hell for our sins, but that we are given an opportunity upon physical death to review how we lived our lives, including experiential knowledge of the effects of our immoral behavior. I believe ultimately, supported by a cadre of angelic spirits, we come to understand fully the difference between right and wrong, between love and hate. I believe we are our own strictest judge and that is PRECISELY why we were given free will.

- I believe all people are given the opportunity to live forever in the presence of the Father, regardless of religion.

- I also believe that all people may choose to die and have their personality and soul, and all remnant of them destroyed for eternity. This is what I would call hell. No awareness, NO memory. This choice must be made affirmatively with every chance for redemption and lenience.

- I believe Jesus and other teachers gave us the only rule we will ever need to fulfill our immortal destiny. Love one another.

OK Brother Freemasons. I am ready to have my tongue torn out now.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen


The Freemasons engage in evil activities and then lie about it. They lie about being a Christian organization, when even the Freemasons on ATS are open anti-Christianity.

The Freemasons do not claim to be a "Christian organization". Your insinuating otherwise is itself a lie.

Furthermore, I haven't seen any Mason on here be anti-real-Christianity.

What about King Solomon falling out of favor with God?

What about it? According to legend, Solomon did indeed fall out of favor with God for a time. Later, in his old age, he repented, got back into good favor with God, and wrote Ecclesiastes shortly before he died.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. In a debate, both sides must provide evidence, not just somebody being challenged by some denier running at the mouth claiming that there's no proof.

The burden of proof is on the accuser.

A while back I quoted directly from ritual, which sent shockwaves, so it's obvious that the Freemasons rely quite a bit on people's ignorance.

I certainly don't recall you post anything that would come anywhere near creating "shockwaves". Rather, it's just the same old thing over and over, all a bunch of accusatory claims without a shill of evidence to back up anything.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Good, then let's see some of your vast insider info.

The Freemasons engage in evil activities and then lie about it. They lie about being a Christian organization, when even the Freemasons on ATS are open anti-Christianity.

Vast insider info? Like what? You want to know the who's who?

What evil activities? We've never said we were a Christian organization. Freemasonry as it sits, especially the Blue Lodge and Scottish Rite, is neutral when it comes to the particulars of Faith, just that you be religious. The York Rite requires you be a Christian before joining the Chivalric Orders.

Not every Freemason is Christian and that is their choice. I am a Christian, but that is my personal belief. As a Christian, I joined the York Rite moving my way up through the Order of the Temple. Most of my family is Methodist, but I don't have a specific denomination. If anything I'm a bit Gnostic Christian. I'm even licensed in Idaho to officiate, as a Minister, over weddings. My specific beliefs don't exactly align with normal Christian doctrine, but I'm also a student of history and realize the corruption of organized church.

As for Solomon falling out of favor, so what? He regained favor with God and wrote another book included in the Bible.

Pike was merely trying to introduce the principles of spiritual alchemy to his audience. A genuine inquirer will read Eliphas Levi to find where he got his ideas.

Suffice to say, once one understands the "secret," it will quickly become apparent that it is virtually incapable of being used for "evil"--Nature, with the aid of Art, is the true agent of the Work of self-perfection.

Albert Pike never suggested that Freemasonry was a religion.

I always wonder why people argue about what he meant in an ambiguous paragraph, when in another, he clarifies his meaning...

A direct quote:

Masonry is not a religion. He who makes of it a religious belief, falsifies and denaturalizes it.

Morals and Dogma - Chapter X
Chapter X: Illustrious elect of the fifteen; Page 161; Paragraph 3