"We Muslims know the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation"

Originally posted by sassyncute

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Reality it is said is subjective and a matter of perspective with each person having a slightly different and unique version based on their perspective.

However most people are more prone to analyze ‘symptoms’ rather than the ‘disease’ and believe the symptom to be the disease instead of the disease, and this does of course lend itself to so many different opinions and perspectives, all based on what those people imagine the symptoms to mean.

A general staff infection can mimic cancer, even doctors sometimes misdiagnose it.

At the root of all these symptoms that people like to focus on is a disease.

This is the disease:

bellum omnium contra omnes

This is a Latin saying dating from early Roman times that translated means “The war of all against all”.

Simply put it means that each and every one of us would love to have the entire world adopt our perspective and opinions, for the sake of our own individual security and power.

That humans as a species have evolved to that point where they have an intense desire to dominate one another at any and all costs, and will fight one another in a highly competitive, often destructive, and deadly way to achieve that dominance and impose their ‘version’ of reality on everyone else in as large a sphere of influence over as many people as they can impose their dominance on.

In the 16th Century a famous English Author floated radical theories that many rejected as simply being beneficial to the King and the State that the only way bellum omnium contra omnes would ever stop afflicting humanity is to have just one central authority that dictates and determines every aspect of human reality and existence.

This is what is behind the march to a New World Order, bellum omnium contra omnes, that competition to create a control infrastructure that would then allow one central authority to be able to dictate every aspect of the human existence to every human.

Everyone is a part of the process of bellum omnium contra omnes, fighting one another for control.

Control of a thread on ATS, control of their clique at school or the office, control of their household, control of their immediate environment, control of what other’s think and feel around them.

Most people will advocate they be given this control because ‘they know’ better, they know the symptom means that such and such disease is present. That if people don’t listen to them, and give them that control, and think and do as they say, that the symptom is going to be the ruin and end of them.

Yet very few people outside the powers that be know which disease really caused the symptom, because at the heart of most events that create reactionary symptoms in the world the average person sees, was an action by the powers that be, that led to that symptom.

The powers that be are also like all of us engaged in bellum omnium contra omnes just at a different level.

In sports you have little league, the farm leagues, the pros and then the World Series.

Most people play bellum omnium contra omnes at the little league level as pawns easily manipulated through news sources and education. Some will make it to the farm leagues, they play it a little better, more effective in their arguments and self discipline, their desire to dominate and get ahead more intense, a small percentage of these will make the pros.

Yet it is the elites playing bellum omnium contra omnes on a World Series level that dictate what symptoms most of us will see and how those symptoms should be viewed as an entirely different disease than it is.

The truth is, that the United States had tremendous respect in the Middle East and amongst the Islamist World right up through the end of World War II.

On his way back from Malta at the final Summit of the Big Three between Stalin, Churchill and Roosevelt, Roosevelt detoured his aircraft carrier to meet with Saudi Arabia’s King to thank him for all his help in keeping the allied armies of Europe running with oil.

Yet the King had a dire message that unfettered Jewish immigration into Palestine and creating a Jewish state there could lead to political turmoil that could have drastic consequences on the stability of the region.

Roosevelt agreed and initially the United State’s policy was against unfettered Jewish Immigration into Palestine. Supplying money or weapons to Jews in Palestine engaged in terrorist acts against the British was a violation of the Trading with the Enemies Act in which a few Americans were in fact prosecuted for in the late 40’s.

However when Roosevelt died (there is one semi-credible story from the son of a Washington D.C. undertaker that his death of natural causes included a single gun shot wound to the forehead) Truman in time reversed his stance on a Jewish State in the Middle East.

Most popular historical fiction contends Truman was a great friend to the Jews but his own diaries paint a different picture of a man being blackmailed and with an intense dislike for Jewish/Zionist politics.

Documents available at Cia.org under the freedom of information act, clearly state over and over again, the number one threat to the United States was an Israeli State as it would destabilize the region of the Middle East and lead to potential disruptions in the nations fuel supply.

This in fact did happen in the two Arab Oil Embargos that led to OPEC and oil going from being a cheap and plentiful commodity available for pennies a gallon, to a very expensive one that would in time make the oil companies insanely profitable, but require at bankrupting expense to the United States citizens a military presence to maintain a status quo in the Middle East through dual standards.

One set of standards for Israel, one set of standards for the Islamic world.

The truth is the Muslims stopped trying to convert people in the 12th century, just like Christians stopped the Inquisition and burning at the stake of Heretics later in the 15th century.

The small amount of Islamic Chauvinists and Extremists are upset about American politics and gunboat diplomacy that enforces dual standards. Yes they imagine that if America were an Islamic nation that would stop, but once again that’s a symptom.

The disease is bellum omnium contra omnes where everyone wants to dominate and control everyone else at their expense.

Most people don’t know what actually is the root cause of terrorism, and even many of the people reading this post will say, well yeah it’s the Jews and Israel, no, it’s bellum omnium contra omnes, because the truth is who has really profited the most off of all the turmoil in the Middle East is not the Jews and not Israel, but the Oil Companies and their associated bankers that know the key to creating an infrastructure where all the people of the world would be dependent on having to abide by one central authority is one central authority controlling all the vital resources that make life sustainable.

The world has been governed through an artificial scarcity created by slowly consolidating those resources in fewer and fewer hands so one entity can win the war of all against all.

It’s been governed through an order out of chaos principle using artificial scarcity, and the Hegelian principles of using the synergy of conflict to create a different outcome than both sides engaged in the conflict want.

In short the easiest way to loose what ‘freedoms’ most people do have is to fall into the trap of thinking symptoms are the disease, of being manipulated into choosing a side in bellum omnium contra omnes and aiding their march to centralized totalitarian dictatorship of all in every matter in every thing.

Why the U.S. Constitution is so important is because if people subscribe to it, no one can win bellum omnium contra omnes.

So yes the Powers that Be would very much like for people to choose a side in the modern day religious crusades, to create modern day religious crusades, even if it means you are someone like me, who is not religious seeing all religions as a disease, which once again they are just symptoms of bellum omnium contra omnes, something the whole world is suffering from. The true disease!

The world you envision 20 years down the road is far different than the world I envision 20 years down the road, in part because I better understand the concepts of bellum omnium contra omnes and the Hegelian principles favored by the Powers that Be.

By the way we were told the same thing about Communism, that 20 years down the road…

That if we didn’t spend trillions to build and maintain a military industrial complex owned and run by the Powers that Be that 20 years down the road we would all be communists. Today Russia and China are capitalist societies and Communism is all but dead.

Yet we are all poorer for it, because while the Communists never posed a military threat, we simply turned that vast military to securing resources that would allow for a central control of all the people of the world through controlling those resources in a monopoly at the source that life depends upon.

Keep falling prey to Hegelian inspired conflicts and where we are going to end up in 20 years is going to be a nightmare of an entire different nature than the one you are selling.

Speaking of which, "World War III will be a guerilla information war, with no division between military and civilian participation." Marshall McLuhan

Proto indeed has his head up a lot of places, and understands that no, symptoms are not the disease.

Thanks!



[edit on 14/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally postrd by ProtoplasmicTraveler
That humans as a species have evolved to that point where they have an intense desire to dominate one another at any and all costs, and will fight one another in a highly competitive, often destructive, and deadly way to achieve that dominance and impose their ‘version’ of reality on everyone else in as large a sphere of influence over as many people as they can impose their dominance on.

I don't know about humans, but it sounds exactly like what Islam is trying to do in the West.

Your paragraph here has given me some insight into your personality, Proto. Yes, you do feel the need to dominate and control others. And browsing some of your old posts has reaffirmed my suspicion.

I must say quite honestly that I do not have any compulsion whatsoever to do this. I guess this is because I am at peace with myself. I no longer feel the need to compete with anyone, unless it is a game of some sort. I guess this just comes along with age and wisdom.

You know Proto, I could stay here all afternoon and pick each and every word in your excessively long and intellectually lacking post apart like I swat flies on side of building.

Screw that, why waste all day arguing with a fool, people can't tell which is which. I think you need to get out more Proto. Go to the beach. Go to the bar. Go to a beach bar. That's what I am going to do today.

Have some fun before it is no longer possible to be able to.

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth

I must say quite honestly that I do not have any compulsion whatsoever to do this. I guess this is because I am at peace with myself. I no longer feel the need to compete with anyone, unless it is a game of some sort. I guess this just comes along with age and wisdom.

Clearly though you do, post after post on this thread you have made has likened this debate to a game that you are playing, you even proclaimed at one point your side had 'won' because everyone went to bed.

Many members on ATS are in fact intelligent enough and perceptive enough to understand the difference between what people state "You are not competing" and what they actually are saying.

Proto listen to me, do as I say, go to the beach, stop posting.

This is what you have actually said.

The truth is you can't pick apart my post, and further underscored it's accuracy by saying "This is what Islam is doing" while you are engaged in a competition against Islam.

Scoring points by preaching to the choir is not the same as helping to raise people’s level of awareness, perception and understanding of things.

The wise man does not proclaim his wisdom but his lack of it, because the wise man is always focused and intent on learning more.

Once again even this self proclamation is part of the competitive process of bellum omnium contra omnes, so thank you for illustrating the validity of my arguments once more.

"wisdom' like yours is always a help!

Thanks.

Makes you think doesn't it. If they're are so concerned about Islamic fundamentalists and suicide bombers then why would they green light a mosque on the WTC site. Simple, Obama knows it was an inside job/MOSSAD (same thing) and is powerless to do anything about it.

I'm British and I don't believe it for one bit. For instance. We in the UK had our 7/7 back in 2005. Now the thing that bothers me is.... Why has there been nothing since. If these people were in a posistion to hijack aircraft. And plant bombs on london transport. Why nothing else since!

reply to post by Hudson


Do not know why you think Muslims did 9/11, as there
are a great number of people who think 9/11 was
an inside job along with a US government ally. There
is nothing honorable about this government except
Ron Paul.
May the Eye of Horus protect you.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


But Osama Bin Laden took credit for the disaster in the name of Islam. He demonized the religion right there. Does Islam have a master leader like the Pope to discredit what Osama Bin Laden said? I don't think so. The Black Stone of Mecca in the Kaaba should have cried out and said Osama doesn't represent me. Islam needs a Governing Body to banish its followers on a worldwide scale. Christendom makes each other's sect look bad. Islam is no different. Will the True God please stand up? Oh, I forgot Satan is ruling the planet and that's why everyone is mad!

Isn't this whole thing moot? There's not even any real evidence that Muslims were involved in 9/11. Six or so of the alleged nineteen are still alive and well last time I checked. This issue is stupid.

Isn't this whole thing moot? There's not even any real evidence that Muslims were involved in 9/11. Six or so of the alleged nineteen are still alive and well last time I checked, including the guy whose passport was found in the WTC rubble (completely unscratched). Not to mention that none of their names were on the flight manifests released to the public. The official 9/11 story has been blown to hell already. This whole issue is stupid.

reply to post by Hudson


I do not understand why people take offence at another mosque in proximity to ground zero when true offence should be directed towards any government office in such an area if the real instigator of 9/11 was to be proven according to many parties.

Too many people use offence as a reason for offence.

For those whining about what a nut slap this would be..

I invite you to imagine you're a muslim looking a all the US bases in Iraq/Afghanistan as being insulting signs of infidel victories..

After-all.. "we Americans know US bases in the mid east are meant to be deliberate provocations" "We took your land, planted a stick with our colored cloth and claim is as ours from now on.. ha, ha, ha!!! we took your poop at gun point ha, ha, ha.. all you weak female dogs in heat will either accept it, or be arrested and tortured as terrorists because we now OWN you muslims!!"

reply to post by GovtFlu



ya so what?

got a problem wit dat?

lol, we are there for YOU!

just like you are very peaceful!

you are writing from afganistan, right?

Originally posted by fooks
reply to post by GovtFlu

 

ya so what?

got a problem wit dat?

lol, we are there for YOU!

just like you are very peaceful!

you are writing from afganistan, right?

I don't have a "problem" with (meaning 'wit') US built "buildings of victory" on Muslim land being seen as deliberately provocative... ('dat')

Iraqis & Afghanis do... for the same reasons empire dwellers are getting their nationalism panties in hypocritical wad over the so called NY mosque... If 20 Marines with bayonets died causing Iran an amount of crap similar to what the (phony) "war on terror" has caused the US.. mount rushmore 2.0 would be erected in their honor... but not in Baghdad... because nobody like braggarts.

(assuming the absurd official story resembled facts) Muslims could rightfully brag it only took a few intellectually superior Muslims to outsmart US heimat defenses and rock 300 million Americans into being scared enough to embrace fascism with the help of Allah: PATRIOT act et al, Apple Pie mom loving American children on "terrorists watch lists", torture, and grannies being tossed upside down finger banged by bottom feeding glorified mall security TSA agents.. lol.. I can see a building celebrating those accomplishments as "deliberately provocative".. lmao

...a tangential thought, if Muslims really were responsible for 9/11.. wouldn't the 9/11 hijackers be celebrated by "US enemies" as uber martyr heroes?.. yet "Al-Qaeda" the Taliban and other so called freedom haters who crave soccer mom blood don't seem to do that.. looks like even they know US govts version of events is folly.

Originally posted by Hemisphere

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Hemisphere

 

This is sad, you have fallen victim to Rome’s manipulation in exactly the fashion I feared they would use it.
Why do people insist on playing out this rotten story to a bitter end?
I will never get it. People are people, each human being is something unique and special. They just can’t be judged in mass like that.
It would be unfair to them, and it would be unfair to me.

Not so sad, there's absolutely nothing terminal here my friend. We still have the freedom to discuss this openly. How am I judging? Better question is who am I judging? It's not American Muslims. They're not behind this. If so I haven't seen the evidence. Time will tell on this.

I agree with you in many ways here Hemisphere
I must add, I think it is wonderful that you are capable of independant thought and that you take things such as this seriously. ATS is about independant thought among many other things.

Agreeing and agreeing to disagree is not the same as division.

Being a man who prefers to think on your own even when given a guilt trip of sorts, shows you are someone to be respected.
Thank you,
sweetliberty

I don't know if this will show up but here is a google map of all the mosques in NYC.
Map of Mosques

There already quite a few mosques so what's one more? Also, I agree with what the President and a lot of people have said already on this matter. We have religious freedom in this country. And this isn't the first time a religious person has said nutty things. Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Revered Jeremiah Wright, all sorts of people have made heinous claims and we haven't called for the immediate removal of those institutions have we? Gee, what do you think would happen if you didn't make such a big deal out of it? Probably wouldn't get air time, face time, or any time and people would move on.

And seriously chuck the whole sensitivity argument. That's just ridiculous.


[edit on 27-8-2010 by justinsweatt]

reply to post by GovtFlu


see, the thing is, you didn't scare us, you pissed us off.


"...a tangential thought, if Muslims really were responsible for 9/11.. wouldn't the 9/11 hijackers be celebrated by "US enemies" as uber martyr heroes?.. yet "Al-Qaeda" the Taliban and other so called freedom haters who crave soccer mom blood don't seem to do that.. looks like even they know US govts version of events is folly."

geeze, you think they are so dumb? lol, would you?