The War for Your Mind: "Ground Zero Mosque"

reply to post by ~Lucidity


You start off saying this is "not" a discussion of the right or wrong of building a mosque there, but only of disinformation, then you proceed to label all information against this mosque as "misinformation", and even state that all opposing it are wrong. Sorry, but that does not fly. What you actually posted states your intentions clearly.

On the ISSUE, since that is clearly really the topic here:

1. The imam involved is suspected of having ties to radicals. He DOES make claims that the U.S. is to blame for 9/11. He is far from neutral on this issue.

2. It is a fact that a case had to be filed to allow those ads to be run. FACT. Like the ads or not; it wasn't right for them to be refused.

3. MOST Americans think a mosque there is a bad idea. See this all over the internet, on Facebook posts, blogs, article comments, everywhere. It has nothing to do with freedom of religion, and everything to do with good taste and respect. To place a mosque there would be nothing less than a slap in the face, a big middle finger, to America. The reality is that radical Islamic terrorists flew planes into the WTC and the Pentagon, and failed at another attempt on who knows what building, and placing a mosque anywhere near there now should not be tolerated. Any real "moderate" Muslim should see this. Where is the respect for the dead?

4. This has nothing to do with some hatred against all Muslims. Know people with Muslim friends that don't think a mosque should be built there. It isn't racist to be against this proposed building, and it isn't hateful. The hate is in proposing one there in the first place.

Now, as to your little "false information" list?

You state that saying Islam is not peaceful is false. Check this site for some accurate information:

Islam Watch

You state that claims of hidden funding are false. How would you know this? It is a fact that so-called, self-proclaimed "peaceful Muslims" have been proven to be involved with terrorist organizations, and even to raise funds for them. Remember That professor from USF? I do; lived in Tampa at the time he was arrested. Such a "peaceful" fellow....not!

If you wish to call the claimed groundbreaking or opening dates false, please provide us with the "real" ones. Heard this claim many times, but have yet to hear an alternate date offered.

You can quibble between "mosque" and "Islamic community center" all day long; won;t change that there would be a mosque IN such a center, or that such a center could spread anti-American information. You know, like saying that our government really did it?

Talk about most Muslims not believing as the hijackers? Prove it. I have seen videos that show even many that claim to be peaceful and moderate teach something completely different behind closed doors. Besides the ones found out, arrested, etc, we have expose videos. One such, a group someplace in GB sent women in undercover to such a location. A Muslim center that claimed moderation, peace, etc. The undercover woman went in as a Muslim, and simply asked questions. She was told that non-Muslims were the enemy, should be killed, etc. All caught on hidden camera. Look up "taqiyya", please.

Never heard anyone but pro-mosque people claim "on" ground zero. All ads and mention I have seen said "at", which means that immediate area. Two blocks is well within the area of destruction. Who is misinforming now?

I am not a family member (least as far as I know) of anyone killed there, and I am against that location for a mosque. I stated why at the start.

Now, have to add, saying the place should be declared a historical site or battlefield is NOT misinformation, but OPINION, and those people are entitled to state their opinions. Freedom of speech means you don't have to agree, but you can't tell them they are wrong for saying what they believe. Frankly, declaring the site a battlefield would not only be the right way to handle this, but would properly address this part of our history. It WAS a battlefield, after all. terrorists declared war on this nation, and killed thousands out of hate. Calling that act anything else is to avoid facing the truth. They started a war based on their religion.

By the way, have had several Muslim online friends state that they think that location is a bad idea as well, because it shows a complete lack of respect.

Originally posted by americandingbat
A couple more links to drop off here for anyone interested

 

First, a blog post from the NYTimes about the State Department trip Imam Rauf is on:
U.S. Sends Muslim Center Imam to Arab World to Promote Religious Tolerance
..........

Ah, the irony! Screaming about how protesting this is some attack against their freedom of religion, and totally ignoring the FACT that the State Department has now acted against the Constitution in paying for a trip to PROMOTE a religion! You people never cease to astound me.

Originally posted by FuZe7
We (the United States) shouldn't discriminate based on religion.

Case closed

So you are against lawsuits by homosexuals against churches and businesses that choose, based on their religious beliefs, not to participate in homosexual weddings, right?

You are against telling Christian churches that they somehow have no right to be involved in politics, right?

besides, this isn't about freedom of religion; it's about good taste and respect. Building there shows an appalling lack of both. Plus, if these pro-mosque people are all for religious freedom, when do we get to start building Christian churches in Muslim countries that don't allow them?

Fair is fair!

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


Can you explain how you get "promoting Islam" from "discussing Muslim life in America and promoting religious tolerance"?

Whether or not it's a good use of State Department funds to do outreach programs like the imam's trip to Arab countries is a valid debate, but not really related to the media coverage of the so-called "Ground Zero Mosque" which is the topic of this thread.

Protesting or rallying against the Park51/Cordoba project is not an attack on their freedom of religion, and I don't think Imam Rauf or anyone else has claimed that it is.

Legal or legislative moves against it on the basis of their religion are in violation of the First Amendment.

If the Burlington Coat Factory building should be protected as a "battlefield" then why didn't people advocate that action before this controversy? It sat empty for eight years before SoHo Properties bought it for these purposes in 2009 (after almost four years of negotiating and getting the sale set up). Either a place is a "battlefield" or it isn't; it doesn't suddenly become one when you're not happy with what a private property owner has planned for it.

As for your other allegations about the imam not being the moderate he seems, about funding, and about opening dates, they have been answered numerous times on this forum. I don't feel like answering them yet again right now. If you have any actual evidence to present perhaps I will.


edit to add: it wasn't addressed at me, but for the record yes, I am against law suits attempting to force churches to perform gay marriages if gay marriage is against their belief system. Honestly though, has such a lawsuit ever gotten anywhere?

[edit on 8/30/2010 by americandingbat]

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes


You are against telling Christian churches that they somehow have no right to be involved in politics, right?

besides, this isn't about freedom of religion; it's about good taste and respect. Building there shows an appalling lack of both. Plus, if these pro-mosque people are all for religious freedom, when do we get to start building Christian churches in Muslim countries that don't allow them?

Fair is fair!

The US doesn't seem to exhibit good taste or respect in the buildings they have constructed in Muslim land, like the biggest US embassy in the world in IRAQ, (who had NO WMDS, and was both the Taliban's and Al CIADA's mortal enemy, and who has even been proven to have NOT been involved in 911)


This whole mosque deal is just a distraction for the US Peeps to play with while the globalists rape the the US Peeps...
the ones that need a distraction that is....


[edit on 30-8-2010 by Danbones]

It is a discussion about information and disinformation about this particular subject and how in permeates the collective consciousness in the war for your mind.

I seriously question if this thread isn't the pot calling the kettle black.

It looks like the thread is using it's own tactics as a war for your mind! Personally I don't see the difference between the characters portrayed as monsters in this thread vs the the intent of the thread itself.

Control freaks will always try to paint ugly pictures no matter what side of an issue they are on and no matter what you take from both!

This thread is clearly no different then most extremists .......as in how they HAVE to save you from your inferior independent thinking. TELLING you what you SHOULD think!

I see no difference in the intent of either side of these extremists.

What I do see from both sides of these extremists is a punishment!
The punishment for having your own independent though will result in you being labeled and thrown into the extreme left or extreme right

At the risk of giving everyone the right to make up their own mind and thinking we the people have the right to think independently..... I have a few novel ideas...

1. Take from both sides of these extremists what isn't forced upon you.

2. Use your own abilities and capabilities to decide for yourself since the truth is you aren't THAT easily influenced as they seem to portray you are.

3. Do not allow their punishments to break you down.

4. Look for signs of desperation (such as bringing the children of 9/11 and the side of the mouth talk of how the parents of these children are incompetent parents…..)

5. Take notice when you are being portrayed as incompetent and labeled when voicing your opinion or thinking ALL BY YOURSELF.

War for your mind indeed!


sl

[edit on 30-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

I like to use this saying.

Everything I hear is a lie.

90% of what I see is a lie until it can be proven by further study.

Being a Libertarian and a Constitutionalist, I say if whatever is happening does not harm another or infringes on their rights, so be it.

BUT, what I am finding is that this whole thing is becoming a smokescreen.

What I mean is, where are they getting the funds?

Now we are hearing that funding is going to be coming from our OWN government through non interest bearing loans.

Hmmm, whatever happened to the separation of church and state that these people that are in government usually push?

Myself, I do not believe in that tenet of separation. I believe no funding or law should be passed infringing on or establishing a religion. Seems to be going against that does it not. Hell, they even OFFERED land to them.

I do not know, I will just quote the Constitution.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

eeek wrong thread

‘Ground Zero Mosque’ Furor a Faint Memory at Park51 Opening