Capitalism: A love Story

Originally posted by Tiger5

We now have reached gthe level of globalisation where jobs can be exported overnight to more profitable international location. Too bad if you are an American and unemployed.....

Not too great if your a kid working in a sweatshop in the 3rd world being paid a $ a week either making cheap clothes for Westerners.
A Global division of Labour is good only for the Capitalist

reply to post by woodwardjnr


So you do not believe in trickle down capitalism??? You must be a damn commie!

Just teasing.

I fully agree with you. The problem really is that we really seem to be blind or totally uncaring about he rest of the world (which actaully begins with our front doorstep).

Kind rgds

Tiger5

[edit on 8-8-2010 by Tiger5]

reply to post by woodwardjnr


Id like to hear a moral, rational argument against my right, pretend im a farmer, to trade my surplus eggs, to say JPZ, who is a rancher, for a cow.

Theres nothing wrong with people trading amongst themselves. The problem arises, in my mind, when someone who is so sucessful at trading, and thus accumulates massive capital, that he uses said capital to bribe the state, or the *monopoly of violence* to do his bidding. His bidding will of course be to reduce competition violently, through coercive and selective taxation and regulation, which is the antithesis of captialism. Merger of state and corperate power is better known as fascism, or corperatism. The terms MMs movie should be using, if it were to be honest and not propaganda.

So its not JPZs sucess as a rancher that should be demonized, but the bribes he offers the state in order to reduce the massive competition that a true free market requires, and that he, as the monopoly capitalist(corperatist) abhors. (hypothetical JPZ, im sure you abhor monopoly just as much as the fascist hates competition~)

So the alternative to the horrors of capitalism, which is better defined as corperatisim, is usually presented as *more* state interference into peoples affairs, which seems to be the source of the problem in the first place. If companies were not protected by the monopoly of violence that is the state, and were forced to compete non violently with others on a level playing field not artificially gaurded and open to fierce competition, monopolies could not form and wealth would naturally, not coercively, be distributed more evenly amongst we, the people. The rising tide of wealth would organically allow even the poorest and least educated to participate and elevate their status as it wouldnt be artificially supressed by state intervention.

Thus the solution must be a stateless society, free of the monopoly of violence. Utopian? More practical than our current state, which will shortly become unliveable, imo.

[edit on 8-8-2010 by Neo_Serf]

*edit grammer and spelling of course, suck.

[edit on 8-8-2010 by Neo_Serf]

Going to watch this movie this afternoon. Looking forward to it. Sure, Michael Moore likes to spin things in his favor, but I still enjoy his films. He always have valid points. He just takes them a bit too far sometimes.



[edit on 8-8-2010 by Copernicus]

We have been romanced & propagandized by the splendors of supposed 'capitalism'.

Capitalism has some few, crude possibly positive attributes,
but a lot of horrible, corrupting ones.

Capitalism is like fire,

contained in very controlled campfires it can be very beneficial,

let to burn down a healthy forest it is a cataclysm.

Time to put out the forest fire, before we are all dead.

reply to post by slank


“Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.”
George Washington

Government, not voluntary traders.

Ok, one thing I actually learned from this movie is how America actually worked just like Sweden in some ways before Ronald Reagan sold it out to the corporations. People had long vacations, you had high income tax and it was spent on building roads, bridges, schools and whatever else was needed for the people.

America is really an example of a country gone wrong, looking back at how it used to be for your parents and their parents. They had good lives. Now you have 1% of the population having as much money as 95% of the rest together. Whats up with that?

Much like Germany in the world wars, America is now to be seen as a warning for other countries on what not to do. It makes a great example of what happens when the banks take over a country.



[edit on 8-8-2010 by Copernicus]

I love Micheal Moore, he is very funny, and is able to twist any situation to meet his needs. Like a old fashion southern preacher trying to fill the coffers. Oh Micheal Moore hates Capitalism, he is the fighter of the little man. I wonder if he is going to give away most of his fortune like many of the United States richest evil capitalist devils.

You see Micheal Moore should love capitalism more than anyone else, if it wasnt for its "evil" ways he wouldnt have anything to talk about no more movies about big corporations, and our bad healthcare. Or rants to take away our guns because we are not responsible enough.

Capitalism has made Micheal Moore rich off the backs of those who want to tear it down. Basically Micheal Moore fights for the little people alright, he fights for them all the way to the bank. Being a little person myself I dont mind shelling out the 15 bucks to buy his movies. This conservative Republican owns several. I think he is a funny guy.

Capitalism allows you to get rich or die trying, I think a famous rapper said that.
That is what I want, a country were I can make hillarious videos, and makes millions off the backs of the little guy like me. because maybe one day I wont be the little guy anymore, and I dont want anyone taking that right away.

Originally posted by humbleseeker
Capitalism has made Micheal Moore rich off the backs of those who want to tear it down. Basically Micheal Moore fights for the little people alright, he fights for them all the way to the bank. Being a little person myself I dont mind shelling out the 15 bucks to buy his movies. This conservative Republican owns several. I think he is a funny guy.

I think you are confused.

When there is a problem with a country, its something positive that people wants to make movies about it and promote social change.

Can you provide me with a source of Michael Moore being rich? I dont believe you.

And the only way you will feel this movie is funny, is if you enjoy seeing others be miserable.



[edit on 8-8-2010 by Copernicus]

reply to post by humbleseeker


I really liked this movie. He made a lot of valid points, and unbelievably even brought in the priests to make points... that said...

If he wants to bring the Church in and stand behind it, using it as a valid argument, as in Jesus wouldn't believe in capitalism and be behind it, etc... that he considered being a priest, is a devout Catholic, then how in the world can he support abortion, which he does?

Please know, I am not trying do derail this thread. Just point out his hypocrisy and cafeteria Catholicism. I am not about to debate abortion rights.

At any rate, I lost respect for him with this totally. He cannot stride the fence and bring in Jesus with his film, spouting off "What would Jesus think about capitalism?" trying to shame the capitalists, and then support abortion... really, Michael Moore??? What would Jesus think about abortion, buddy? What a hypocrit. What did any of his rabid followers think of the Jesus, Catholic part of the film???

Just my $0.02 on that part of the flick.

"Poverty is not caused by men and women getting married; it's not caused by machinery; it's not caused by "over-production"; it's not caused by drink or laziness; and it's not caused by "over-population". It's caused by Private Monopoly. That is the present system. They have monopolized everything that it is possible to monopolize; they have got the whole earth, the minerals in the earth and the streams that water the earth. The only reason they have not monopolized the daylight and the air is that it is not possible to do it. If it were possible to construct huge gasometers and to draw together and compress within them the whole of the atmosphere, it would have been done long ago, and we should have been compelled to work for them in order to get money to buy air to breathe. And if that seemingly impossible thing were accomplished tomorrow, you would see thousands of people dying for want of air - or of the money to buy it - even as now thousands are dying for want of the other necessities of life. You would see people going about gasping for breath, and telling each other that the likes of them could not expect to have air to breathe unless the had the money to pay for it. Most of you here, for instance, would think and say so. Even as you think at present that it's right for so few people to own the Earth, the Minerals and the Water, which are all just as necessary as is the air. In exactly the same spirit as you now say: "It's Their Land," "It's Their Water," "It's Their Coal," "It's Their Iron," so you would say "It's Their Air," "These are their gasometers, and what right have the likes of us to expect them to allow us to breathe for nothing?" And even while he is doing this the air monopolist will be preaching sermons on the Brotherhood of Man; he will be dispensing advice on "Christian Duty" in the Sunday magazines; he will give utterance to numerous more or less moral maxims for the guidance of the young. And meantime, all around, people will be dying for want of some of the air that he will have bottled up in his gasometers. And when you are all dragging out a miserable existence, gasping for breath or dying for want of air, if one of your number suggests smashing a hole in the side of one of th gasometers, you will all fall upon him in the name of law and order, and after doing your best to tear him limb from limb, you'll drag him, covered with blood, in triumph to the nearest Police Station and deliver him up to "justice" in the hope of being given a few half-pounds of air for your trouble."
— Robert Tressell (Ragged Trousered Philanthropists)

www.goodreads.com...

[edit on 8-8-2010 by woodwardjnr]

[edit on 8-8-2010 by woodwardjnr]

reply to post by Lateralus51


I watched it as well, it had some good points, mostly about unethical corporations.. but for the most part it was Moore standing on a soap box preaching socialism and co-op corporations using biased stats to support his argument. Over all, I though the movie was a pathetic excuse for a documentary, though I do agree with some of the major flaws with Corporatism (not Capitalism).

Can you provide me with a source of Michael Moore being rich? I dont believe you.

[edit on 8-8-2010 by Copernicus]

I know this wasn't directed to me, but it was such a dumb comment that it literally caused me pain to read it. It is obvious that Moore is rich, his movies have put him in the 8 figure range. Just Google it, its not like its hard to find. Plus its common sense that obviously he would make a lot of money off of these movies that seem to be very popular.


Still don't believe he's rich, but don't have enough time to go to Google and type in "Michael Moore networth"? *sigh* I understand that the Google searchbox is complicated, and so is common sense, so I'll throw you a bone:

Michael Moore Net Worth

It's kind of ironic that Russia and China have discovered capitalism. Now Russia and China are the world's top economic powers.

While America flounders with that old fashioned concept of socialism as a money making proposition.