Revelation; The Mark of the Beast

I found an interesting patent about an invisible tattoo

A method is presented for facilitating sales transactions by electronic media. A bar code or a design is tattooed on an individual. Before the sales transaction can be consummated, the tattoo is scanned with a scanner. Characteristics about the scanned tattoo are compared to characteristics about other tattoos stored on a computer database in order to verify the identity of the buyer. Once verified, the seller may be authorized to debit the buyer's electronic bank account in order to consummate the transaction. The seller's electronic bank account may be similarly updated.

here is the link

IMO this could be the mark of the beast mentioned by the OP

reply to post by DutchBigBoy
I made comments in the OP on "sales control" theories of this kind.

I defined the Mark as indicating "voluntary and conscious loyalty" to a world-leader claiming to be the returned Christ, and then questioned whether these theories actually matched that definition.

Another group is founded on the observation that "the Beast controls who buys and sells". But that observation's inaccurate as well. The restriction in the text is a way of penalising the stubborn believers, who are "behaving in a consciously negative manner". It is a means to an end, not an end in itself.

Nevertheless, there are people finding the Mark in anything to do with trade and commerce, from Barclaycards to barcodes. But I must ask- do any of these suggestions pass the test of "conscious loyalty" relating to a public individual resembling the Beast?

It appears that this thread is relevant again, since multiple (and sometimes misleading) threads on the subject are now re-appearing on the board.

Some thoughts about the so called Mark Of The Beast.

Perhaps not now but in a short future, since the world economy has gone down to the gutter. More and more leaders have been yelling "one world economy". Perhaps this new universal currency will be put in force under the guise of controlling the masses.

reply to post by Skittle

I made comments in the OP on "sales control" theories of this kind.

I defined the Mark as indicating "voluntary and conscious loyalty" to a world-leader claiming to be the returned Christ, and then questioned whether these theories actually matched that definition.

"Another group is founded on the observation that "the Beast controls who buys and sells". But that observation's inaccurate as well. The restriction in the text is a way of penalising the stubborn believers, who are "behaving in a consciously negative manner". It is a means to an end, not an end in itself.

Nevertheless, there are people finding the Mark in anything to do with trade and commerce, from Barclaycards to barcodes. But I must ask- do any of these suggestions pass the test of "conscious loyalty" relating to a public individual resembling the Beast?"

I have read so many things in this thread... including spin-offs of this thread... But I will comment on a few things I considered.

The writings of John on the Isle of Patmos, were written in symbols and emblems. Understanding this language is part of what is required in this thread. Some have used the previous use of some of the emblems and symbols from other scriptures, including the old testament, to attempt to decipher this language. This also presents a mystery as the previous use is ALSO the language. I'm not saying that comprehension and understanding can't be gained in the attempt, but I am saying it is not something learned in a 101 course somewhere.

Ever wonder what the book is talking about? Could John in the first part of the book be revealing his experience ( through this language ) and in the second part the experience of collective man, rather then the individual? Does the enlightenment of the whole process happen to the "individual" ( man ) as well as the collective ( mankind )? Could it possibly be that in this language John is shown what Jesus went through and what each must go through? That where He is, we will be?

Notice I said "experience"... I suspect much of the book is revealing something to do with not only our consciousness, but the collective consciousness of man. As Jesus often mentioned... "Ye can NOT serve both God and Mammon", though many try. Notice as well that the book reads.. NO ONE can buy or sell... without the mark? This isn't in the future this is NOW. the number is the number of a MAN... how many of us are a MAN? The number is 600 60 and 6.... in the hand or the head means what we DO and what and how we THINK... as in hand = do and head = think....

How many of us think and act according to the whole "buy and sell" system. I suspect most all of us come to be men ( and women ) at a time in our life.. 600 spiritual cycles of experience... 60 cycles through the mental and 6 through the flesh.... We become a MAN.... esoteric meaning of numbers etc also have their place in all this... 666=18=9. Add nine to something... let's say 24 for example. 9 + 24 = 33. what do you see? 33 ( 3 + 3 ) = 6.... what does 24 =?

This is Revolution 9... no matter what you add it to, you end up not gaining. Just an interesting consideration. lol What if the Whore of Babylon is us? Don't get me wrong, I am referring to the selfish us. What if she is an emblem of our selfish self and this selfish self will fall. All the Merchants of the World will cry when she falls.... there are many mysteries to this book and the language used.

Jesus said "The Kingdom of GOD is within you" and make no mistake in this, GOD is in HIS Kingdom. So I hope the consideration that Johns book being not only about what happens WITHIN each of us, but also to collective MAN, isn't too far fetched. If someone tries to claim the beast, the fiend himself isn't THEM, just remember that Jesus said to Peter... "Get Thee Behind Me Satan". Jesus mentioned simple matters like "The Devil is the Father of all lies" etc.... ever lied? So the whole idea of an internal experience and a matter of consciousness isn't beyond comprehension.

remember it is written:
Deuteronomy Chapter 30
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
15 See, I have set before thee this day, life and good, and death, and evil:

notice it is inside us, within. Also note that God says "I have set before thee... Life and Good, Death and Evil". Try to consider One Force... ONE God... the debate ( argument? ) I followed in this thread about duality and the oneness of God reminds me of these scripts. The ONLY thing that separates us from God is US... as in YOU. We each have freewill. Think God knows what you are going to do with it? What you will choose? That wouldn't be freewill would it? Maybe God doesn't know what we will do till we choose His will? Then He knows?

Brilliant thread this is. Thanks. I thought I'd just offer some little things to add to it. Some Grist for the Mill.

To the OP I have been moved to ask a few questions. First I think the assumption that there will be some clear choice on the taking of the mark is dangerous ground. My concern comes from Matthew 7:21-23. I think we make decisions that could lead us to make a decision to take the mark because we are too "stiffnecked" and choose to not seek the truth in his word. The choice is made by not following His word, thus leaving a way for the believer to be tricked. How do you reconcile this with your clear choice model???


Honestly not keeping the Lords time is something that I think puts the believer in peril. I think many have been deceived has to the source of the Church's celebrations and the Sunday observance. I fear it is the celebration of other gods and will be judged that way. Do you think the current church can be the Bride with such disobedience?

Response to Serafine

This is one of a whole series of threads on the subject of Revelation.
The others can be found in my profile or in my "Revelation Index" thread.
Over the whole series, I've got a lot of mileage out of the technique you mention, referring back to the Old Testament passages which are alluded to in the various images.
I believe that this would have come naturally to the readers of John's own time, because they were familiar with the Old Testament in a way that we're not. Following which, I'm convinced that this was the intended way of understanding the book, and that we would do well to follow it.

The suggestion that human being as such are bearing the mark has been made before
In my opinion, it fails the test of "conscious loyalty".
The Mark of the Beast is a sign of loyalty to the Beast and disloyalty towards God.
When we are born, is that an act of loyalty to the Beast and disloyalty towards God? Surely not. Therefore I can't see it as the Mark of the Beast.

In one of my five threads on the Harlot of Babylon, I suggest that she may represent the existence of human sin.
I think that's the nearest approach to your suggestion in this series;
Babylon's Wake

Originally posted by standrewscross
the Sunday observance. I fear it is the celebration of other gods and will be judged that way. Do you think the current church can be the Bride with such disobedience?

Lets begin with the question of Sunday observance.
As far as I'm concerned, the meaning of this practice is controlled by the intention.
The church has been celebrating Sunday, as the day of the week when Christ rose from the dead, since the very earliest days of the church. Probably as early as John's time, and certainly at least a couple of centuries before the time of Constantine..
What was their intention? If their intention was to celebrate the saving power of God as revealed in the resurrection of Christ, then that is precisely what they were doing. If they were not conscious of celebrating other gods, there is no reason why God should judge it as such.

Yes, they were at the same time neglecting the Jewish practice of the seventh-day Sabbath. But that was legitimate, because the seventh-day Sabbath is an ordinance of the Mosaic Law. We have been told, by Paul, that we have been released from the Mosaic Law and living in the freedom of the Spirit.;
"But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code, but in the new life of the Spirit."- Romans ch7 v6
So the early church was perfectly entitled to ignore the Sabbath ordinance, if the Holy Spirit was allowing them to do so.

To those who want to re-impose the seventh-day ordinance, on Christians, I would want to say;
"Foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you?"
Because these are people who want to live in slavery. They want to live once more under the yoke of the Law of Moses, from which the Gospel has released us..
Seventh-day observance is yet another facet of the perennial human problem of legalism. Whenever somebody like Paul or Luther tries to knock legalism on the head, it keeps coming back under a different disguise.
Have faith- believe in the freedom of the Spirit, and do not try to subject yourselves to the slavery of the Law.

It's also another facet of the "everybody else in the church is wrong, we're the only ones who are right" attitude, which groups like the Jehovah's Witnesses use to justify their existence.
We need to be wary of that one as well.

My "conscious choice" model is really based on my assumption that God is a God of justice, who would not punish people for things which were not their own fault.
Those who are cast into the fire in ch14 are those who worship the Beast- the mark itself is secondary to the worship, a symptom of willingness to worship.
I still think this is in line with my conviction that the intention is key

reply to post by DISRAELI


Its very easy to make your own opinion about 666, the mark of the beast, just like this guy I found on youtube... but honestly I think he has it right on! check it out and let me know what you think. www.youtube.com...

The location of the mark of the beast... its an either or choice mostly. The average beast follower will pick where they want it to go... Most will pick the hand I imagine.
However its not all spiritual in nature really its only common sense.
Not everyone in the world has hands.
Everyone has a head.

I imagine this will be called a loyalty mark... it will be a symbol more than anything else. UPC symbols can be faked very easily - heck I have even hand drawn them before and they work fine. So the loyalty mark will not be that. It will be a marker for the location of the chip or whatever they plan to put in them at the time... so for example if it were like most things today... a small tattoo but big enough to see at a glance... graphically designed to represent hope and peace and money or some nonsense.

Its easy to fake a tattoo... the technology behind it will take a bit more work.
Even then... I am thinking a bit of stage makeup and a tattoo on that with a faked or stolen chip underneath the stage makeup with a battery will do the trick too.

Anything designed by man can be faked or hacked by man.

So to be honest there will be something else with the mark that is far more sinister than your credit card info and your citizenship details... it will be the implication that you have chosen to accept this politician and magician at his word and follow him as a god. Heck... even atheists will do it. Christians if they were around would do it... if it were possible this guy will be very convincing.

reply to post by 666themark666

I have my own analysis of the "666" question at the following location;
666

Your person on Youtube suggests that "666" represents two-thirds of something, i..e. two-thirds of the Trinity, i.e. someone who does not have the Holy Spirit.
The problem with this theory is that someone who sets hmself against God doesn't have any of the persons of the Trinity, so his number, on that argument, ought to be Zero.

My own preferred interpretation was based on the suggestion that "6" is the number that represents the human race (because it was created on the sixth day), just as "7" represents God. Then "666" would indicate a worship which was man-centred rather than God-centred. This fits in completely with my understanding of ch13, showing the demands for worship made by a human individual and a human institution.

reply to post by ziplogan

Thank you for that contribution.

I'd like to add that there are two symbolic meanings that the location of the Mark might have.

In the first place, it's often suggested that slaves were marked there in John's time as a sign of ownership. So this sign would be the equivalent of that, a sign of being owned by the Beast.
Even more to the point, perhaps, the hand and the forehead are the places where God wanted his people to hold his law in Deuteronomy ch6 v8. If the Mark goes in the same place, that seems to suggest that it is being taken up in place of the law of God.

If the locations mentioned in Revelation ch13 have these symbolic meanings, that opens up the possibility that they are only meant symbolically, so that the Mark, in practice, might be almost any kind of symbol which would identify the user as loyal to the Beast.

reply to post by DISRAELI


Well the markings of slavery (biblical ones) were the fleshy part of the ear on the lobe and on the top of the ear. These were drilled and a ring placed through them with the family name or symbol... On that note the slaves of the bible were considered family - not the image of slaves we have today.

The second was the fleshy part of the hand between the thumb and the index finger... this was used more for robbers and criminals so that when people met them they would know they are untrustworthy. Arabic world took this practice to a more extreme use and removed the hand altogether.

Sources available for this if you need.

I agree it will mean they belong as in slavery to him... hence being tied to him in judgment later on.

While the bible does talk about a mark on believers in the end times as well... it also speaks about how they are already Sealed by the Holy Spirit - Eph 1:13
It is a kind of mark but only God can see it.
Furthermore the Holy Spirit is called the down payment on the promises of God that there is much more available to us on the day of Redemption.

I personally suspect that this too will be counterfeited.

Imagine if the ac shows up in the middle of the fake economic downturn today and said take my mark and I will put 10,000 in your account as well. People would flock...

Ahh one more note... Covenant...

When covenants were made they also cut the hands and made marks on the flesh.

In the occult teachings it is long taught what the symbol for the Mark of The Beast is. Let me just say that a very infamous American is using it right now.

Originally posted by ziplogan
While the bible does talk about a mark on believers in the end times as well... it also speaks about how they are already Sealed by the Holy Spirit - Eph 1:13
It is a kind of mark but only God can see it.

Thank you for bringing up that point.
I made exactly the same connection in my own thread on the sealing; Revelation; 144,000
There's no doubt in my mind that Ephesians and Revelation are talking about the same kind of seal.

As for your remark about covenant-making, I think that's a very important observation.
In Daniel ch9 v27, the great hostile king "shall make a strong covenant with many".
I've been understanding this in terms of the relation between the Beast and the "ten kings" which help to extend his power through the world.
But your comment prompts the thought that his covenant is with all his supporters, an equivalent of the covenant God makes with his own people.
This may even be a better interpretation than the one I've been using.

6 is the half of the whole, which is 12.

Imagine a clock, the right side of the clock is black and the left side in white.
6 is the number that devides night from day.
6 body 6 mind 6 spirit, each a side of the pyramid (body and mind below and spirit above)

The beast is a metaphor for the darkside (dreamstate) inside ourselves that has kept us from seeing the truth about ourselves and also the dark forces in our world that that don`t want us to know and keep the charade going on. These are the ones who have kept the information of who we are are and where we came from a secret so that they could control and manipulate us.
First it was the church and now the people who control the banks and big corporations, who are bribing and blackmailing people in any proffesion to not disclose anything that woul lead us to the truth of it all.

But the charade coming to an end, as you can`t stop the sun from rising. While in the darkness we were lead to believe there was no sun.

The time has come for the pyramid (the people of the earth) to giving birth to after being in the womb for so long, and will realise it was all a dream after all.

reply to post by Red Cloak

I don't think I'm ready to look to occult teachings for guidance about the meaning of a Christian book.

Originally posted by Senser
The beast is a metaphor for the darkside (dreamstate) inside ourselves that has kept us from seeing the truth about ourselves

I think this is the wrong kind of metaphor. Revelation ch13 depicts something outside ourselves, exercising power and authority in the world, and using that power to persecute people to the point of putting them to death.
From the indications in the rest of Revelation, the persecuted people are to be identified with those who persist in remaining loyal to the Biblical God and following Jesus Christ.
So the Beast is a power of some kind which sets itself against the Biblical God.

I've made my own comments on the number 666, about half a dozen posts above yours, and in the thread which was cited there.