Revelation; The Mark of the Beast

Originally posted by baburak
I actually don't belive in this stuff but if i would i'd be pretty sure that beast=money

But then you come up against the point I was making half-way through, that the Mark is supposed to be something which involves a conscious decision against God, because it makes them his enemies.
You can't say that applies to everyone who has ever handled money..

reply to post by DISRAELI


Both marks are psychic, parasocial. Are you familiar with the concept of the noosphere? The Elect will be bound together by the psychic mark of God, and together they make up the collective consciousness (noosphere) that is Christ.

The Beast is the mimicry of this, a mimicry which takes the form of a collective unconsciousness (the 'goat'). The false prophet of that paradigm is science and consumerism.

[edit on 1-8-2010 by Student X]

reply to post by DISRAELI


i bet that most people would chose money over faith if had a choice.

reply to post by impyroo

Thank you for that contribution.
That's a 14 part series?
10 minutes each?
2 hours, twenty minutes in total?

Well, thanks, but I'm always much happier being offered things to read, because I know I can read words so much more quickly than I can listen to people saying them.

(edit to correct maths)

[edit on 1-8-2010 by DISRAELI]

Originally posted by Student X
Both marks are psychic, parasocial.

I think the most you can say is "could be". The text won't authorise you to be quite so definite on the point.

Originally posted by Student X
The Elect will be bound together by the psychic mark of God, and together they make up the collective consciousness (noosphere) that is Christ.

And I hope you are not leaving out of consideration the point that, Biblically speaking, it is Jesus, the "head of the body", who is Christ, and the elect are only "Christ" inasmuch as they belong to him. The "Christ is in us and we are in him" theology of Paul.

reply to post by DISRAELI


Leaving out? Not at all.

Jesus, having resurrected into his eternal body like a phoenix rising from the ashes, is what some might call the avatar or manifestation of the Christ noosphere.

[edit on 1-8-2010 by Student X]

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by Student X

 

On the subject of God's mark, my answer resembles yours but from a slightly different angle.
I was proposing to identify it with being "sealed by the Holy Spirit", as described in eg Ephesians ch1 v13. In other words, yes, not necessarily something that can be "felt" by the recipient. Just a mark of "belonging to God", and getting the spiritual support which goes with that.

On the Beast's Mark, though- I considered the possibility that it might be an invisible, "spiritual" mark in a similar way, but I had to reject it because of the social effect of the Mark,as described in my piece. If it is going to be used as a reason for boycotting, then it has to be somehing visible to ordinary eyesight, so that other people know how to react. So- a symbol, a piece of clothing, a salute or something else behavioural, who knows? But it would have to be visible.


[edit on 1-8-2010 by DISRAELI]

By this definition you could be taking , baptism - indoctrination - loyalty .

666 does = money . The clue is that the wicked Solomon paid for the building of the Temple in three denominations of 6 . 666 can also be disguised as XXX . X = 6 in occult terms . XXX = porn = meaning beneath a woman , a insult by roman standards . X is also known as a cross like when you are asked to tick or cross a box on a form .Who says the traditional t shape cross of Christianity is even correct . The crosses of the crucifixtion could have just as easily been XXX in shape to add insult to Christ . Everyone is indoctrinated to sign XXX on a Christmas card , meaning love . XXX = love = indoctrination to 666 .Just something to think about .

Originally posted by 13th Zodiac.

666 does = money . The clue is that the wicked Solomon paid for the building of the Temple in three denominations of 6 .

The problem is that 666 can mean so many different things.
I did a complete thread on that verse alone-

Revelation- 666

I touched on the Solomon angle along with the others- but essentially I came to the conclusion that "666" is pointing us towards a "human-centred" rule, eg that of a world-state with a single dominating ruler.
You would have to look at the thread to see the whole argument.

reply to post by amadeus30

Thank you for that encouragement.
I agree with you that something which is compulsory could not be the "mark" in question



[edit on 1-8-2010 by DISRAELI]

616 the original Number of the Beast

papyrus 115 the earliest known version of the Book of Revelation discussing the Number of the Beast. It gave the number as 616

reply to post by Zeta Reticulan

Thank you for that contribution.
I did a specific thread last week about the verse containing "666".
I don't have any real preference myself as between "666" and "616", but somebody on the thread did come up with a very scholarly argument that scribal error changing 666 accidentally into 616 was more plausible than the other way round.

reply to post by ExPostFacto

Yes, thank you for the link to that thread;
and now that I've looked at it, and seen how much the focus is on the New World Order, one of my queries would be how compatible it would be with what I called the "condition of conscious loyalty". My argument being, as in the OP, that if people don't have the chance to opt out, it would not be a genuine test of their loyalty.

reply to post by DISRAELI

A link to my other two threads on the antichrist theme;

Great leader and antichrist

Revelation; 666



[edit on 2-8-2010 by DISRAELI]

[edit on 2-8-2010 by DISRAELI]

it is my belief that a PIN or CODE numbers are in fact the mark, on the new DR in the US you have a bar code, this is read/ write so they the law can add stuff like restrictions/ tickets, use a credit card/ debit card where do you hold it where is the number held when asked? do you know it better the the word of God and his commandments? i will tell you i do i know my SS, DR# and pass numbers as well as phone number zip code and pass word/ numbers the thing i noticed is they are all based on the 666, set of 3 numbers, take you number and run with it, do not post it although some one some were knows it, see what you come up with. i do believe that it is a system "random number generated" each number is a letter each letter is a number say 5 would =t 9=o 4=r 12=a so 5/9/4/12 =TORA we all now how to spell the true Torah, see how it can be falsified, but i hope you get the idea

Originally posted by bekod
it is my belief that a PIN or CODE numbers are in fact the mark, on the new DR in the US you have a bar code,

Well, I have to come back to my theory of "conscious loyalty", that it cannot be the Mark unless people actually know that's it's a sign of loyalty, unless it's handed out on that basis. Is God really going to make us "drink the wine of his wrath" because we've handled a PIN number?

[edit on 2-8-2010 by DISRAELI]

reply to post by DISRAELI


But what about the 'strong delusion' that God sends? Surely no one would choose to be subjected to a Divine delusion? What if the delusion contributes to the choice to receive the mark of the Beast? Could it then be said to be a real choice at all?

[edit on 2-8-2010 by Student X]

reply to post by Student X

2 Thessalonians says the "strong delusion" is sent upon those who "refused to love the truth and so be saved", and these are people who had "pleasure in unrighteousness". So they have certainly made some kind of choice beforehand.
I would probably need to sleep on a more detailed answer.

reply to post by DISRAELI


I think I might have the answer. I referred to it earlier. The sheep-goat effect.

"Gertrude made one of the most important discoveries ever in parapsychology, one with strong spiritual implications and one which I think none of the spiritual traditions knows about, for while it's something that can happen in everyday life, it's pretty much unobservable except under laboratory conditions. She gave many classes of students ESP tests, guessing at concealed cards, but, before giving or scoring the tests, she had students fill out questionnaires that asked, among other things, whether they believed in ESP.

When she analyzed the results separately for the believers – the "sheep" – and the non-believers – the "goats" – she found a small, but significant difference. The sheep got more right than you would expect by chance guessing, they were occasionally using ESP. The goats, on the other hand, got significantly fewer right than you would expect by chance.

Think of it this way. If you were asked to guess red or black with ordinary playing cards, no feedback until you'd done the whole deck, you would average about 50% correct by chance. If you got 100% correct, you don't need statistics to know that would be astounding. But if you got 0%? Just as astounding!

The sheep thought they could do it, they got "good" scores, they were happy. The goats knew there was no ESP, nothing to get, they got poor scores, they were happy, that "proved" their belief. These were not people who were sophisticated enough about statistics to know that scoring below chance could be significant….

Many other experimenters replicated this effect over the years.

The only way I've ever been able to understand it is to think that the goats occasionally used ESP, but on an unconscious level, to know what the next card was and then their unconscious, acting in the service of their conscious belief system, influenced them to call anything but the correct one.

The goats used a "miracle" to support their belief that there were no such things as miracles…." -Charles Tart (emphasis mine)

[edit on 2-8-2010 by Student X]

reply to post by Student X

I think my preferred way of putting it (for the time being) is that they know what they're doing, and the delusion consists of the fact that hey think they've got a good reason for doing it, for trusting in the "Beast".
My real point being to combat the idea that something totally unconscious, like handling a barcode or credit card, could be a "mark of the Beast".
It comes down to the fact that my mental outlook is Arminian, not Calvinist.