Revelation; The Beast- 666

reply to post by Zeta Reticulan

I addressed that question on the first page of the thread;

Originally posted by DISRAELI
I must admit I haven't formed an opinion on the textual point.
When you're looking for symbolic meanings, 666 is easier to work with.
I saw one explanation that the Greek form of Nero led to 666 and the Latin form led to 616, and the suggestion was that this might have been the reason why 616 sometimes turns up.
I think there's at least one person on ATS pushing 616, but that seems to be because he's got his own agenda about what it means.
It seems that the majority of MSS say 666, and some scholars think the odd couple that say 616 might have an older text, but as far as I can see, they're still arguing about it.

I ought to add that "older manuscript" is by no means the same thing as "better text", because it's perfectly feasible that a text tradition incorporating mistakes might have older copies than a textual tradition without them.

DEISREAL

THEY ALSO SACRIVICE JESUS EVERY MASS AS AN AMIMAL, HOW SICK AS A SIN OFFERING, PEOPLE ARE TO BELIEVE THIS IS YESHUA teachings, HOW WRONG ARE THEY.

Same way they mention JESUS NAME IN THE REVELATION, they are very smart how they put it all together
to go against JESUS AS THE BEAST. THEY ALLWAY WORK IN THREES. BUT ALWAYS HAVE THE SAME PATTEN.

reply to post by dave13

All you are doing is playing with letters and numbers to make them mean what your emotions want them to mean.
That method of interpretation has no value.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
Hssssss ssssss

All stood, or sat still. Théoden sat with his head high, his face unreadable. Wormtongue shifted uncomfortably. Then something amazing happened. Gandalf shed his old tattered cloak like a butterfly sheds its cocoon. He stood, holding his staff in his hand, his blue eyes seeming to burn with an unseen fire. His garments were pure as the moon and bright as the sun.

"The wise speak only of what they know, Grima son of Galmod." He said, his voice cold and sharp like the blade of a sword. "A witless worm you have become. Therefore be silent and keep your forked tongue behind you teeth. I have not passed through fire and death to bandy crooked words with a serving man to the lightning falls."

reply to post by DISRAELI


disreali

MAYBE IF YOU DO ABIT OF RESEARCH WHAT I WROTE THEN MAYBE YOU WILL SEE THE BIG PICTURE.

reply to post by DISRAELI


DISREAL,


TROPHY

In the times of Ancient Greeece and Rome it was regarded as a structure consisting of the captured ARMS, FLAGS or other spoils of a DEFEAT ENEMY, hung on a tree, or pillar, of the field of balltle or elsewhere as a memorial of VICTORY- THIS PRACTICE IS STILL BEING PRACTICED TODAY-

Reason the symbols in the Revelation, helraldry, FLAGS and numbers represent the VICTORY over JESUS.

its not my opinion, its the truth

reply to post by dave13


Dave,

Your understanding of the false christ the catholic church created and pay homage to and it being tied to the numerical representation of 666 is acurate to a degree. As that religion is what is "full of blasphamies" and is depicted as the scarlet women (religion) riding the Beast (Holy Roman Empire).

But that false christ worshipped in mass every sunday around the world is not the true Christ of scripture, it is not the Christ John gave glory and honor to at the onset of the Book of Revelation.

666 is the representation of all religions, cultures, governements and customs that function according to the will of mankind and NOT the will of God. The false christ worshipped on the day of the Sun god is part of that equation, it is a false christ. Only the true Messiah, the son of God, who kept his fathers laws all the days of his life (7th day Sabbath, dietary laws, annual Holy Days, Passover, short hair, strong etc.) and is now seated at the right hand of God; is the recipient of the glory given by John in chapter 1 verse 1.

So if your argument is that the christ worshipped every sunday is 666 then you are correct. If your argument is that the Christ of scripture is the same false christ being worshipped on the day of the Sun, you are incorrect.

I hope that helps.

God Bless,

Originally posted by dave13
In the times of Ancient Greeece and Rome it was regarded as a structure consisting of the captured ARMS, FLAGS or other spoils of a DEFEAT ENEMY, hung on a tree, or pillar, of the field of balltle or elsewhere as a memorial of VICTORY- THIS PRACTICE IS STILL BEING PRACTICED TODAY-

Reason the symbols in the Revelation, helraldry, FLAGS and numbers represent the VICTORY over JESUS.

its not my opinion, its the truth

God and Jesus Christ's victory over the false religions created by mankind as influenced by Satan apart from God's laws (including the sunday worship of a false christ; scarlet woman riding the beast).

That is the truth Dave.

For you to believe the true Jesus Christ of scripture is 666 is to deny hundreds of other scriptures in order to convince yourself of this falacy. But your point about the chirst worshipped on sunday being part of 666 is correct.

God Bless,

Originally posted by dave13
MAYBE IF YOU DO ABIT OF RESEARCH WHAT I WROTE THEN MAYBE YOU WILL SEE THE BIG PICTURE.

Big picture?
You see nothing except what you want to see, and I'm certainly not following you into that maze of trivia.
You have nothing but incoherent fantasy.

reply to post by DISRAELI

DIZREAL,



FIRST DO YOU HOME WORK THEN SAY TO ME ITS ALL MY FANTASY.

reply to post by ElohimJD


ELOHIM,

Thank you very much for you thoughts. BUT THE SAME JESUS FROM THE NEW TESTAMENT AND OLD TESTAMENT IS THE SAME JESUS IN REVELATION AS 666. Because the leaders did not except him as the true MESSIAH, RESON WHY THEY WROTE THE REVELATION AGAINST JESUS. SAME WITH THE CHURCH, WHO NEVER MENTIONS MESSIAH, JUST CHRIST AS A NAME , THEY SEE JESUS AS THE FAKE MESSIAH AND REASON THEY SACRIVICE JESUS AS A SIN OFFERING, BECAUSE IN THIER EYES HE IS NOT THE MESSIAH, BUT IN YOUR EYES AND MY EYES HE IS THE MESSIAH.

I'm not used to writting on forums, first time after 13 years, I'm pushing this on the WEB. i THINK ITS TIME FOR MORE PEOPLE TO SEE THE TRUTH.

I would just like to ask you do you believe that PAUL IS A TRUE FOLLOWER OF JESUS'?
For me PAUL IS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IN THE FAKE CHRISTIANITY. HE WAS A SPY AGAINST JESUS.

reply to post by hippomchippo


HIPPOM,


- 13 is JESUS, Chapter 13 in the Revelation was written against Jesus. FRIDAY 13TH is JESUS
12 APOSTLES, THE 13TH WAS JESUS

- 666 = XXX = +++ = FATHER, SON, HOLY SPIRIT =HOLY TRINITY = JESUS
- 666 = Friday the 6th day of the week, THE DAY JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED
666 = 6 FOOT UNDER
666 = There are 6 weeks of lent prior to EASTER
666 = 6th letter of the aplhabet is F = FRIDAY = Friday 13th = JESUS
666 = Revelations ,The Father- 6th Seal
Son - 6th Trumpet
Holy spirit- 6th Bowl
666= Revelation 13.5 "The beast was allowed to make proud claims which were insulting to God
and it was permitted to have authority for Forty two months" = 42 months = 3.5 years,
Jesus started to preach at the age of 30 and was crucified at the age of 33 and half years
= 3.5 years = 42 months

666= The second book of Esdras , the Fifth Vision of the EAGLE-
Most scholars date the the Eagle Vision during 69- 96 AD.
" the second night Ihad a dream. I saw an eagle coming up out of the sea.
It had twelve wings and three heads. All three heads was a sleep,
even the middle one, which was larger then the other two"
= EAGLE = JESUS AS SATAN

I've got a few questions.
Which beast does the number refer to - the one out of the sea, the one out of the earth, or both?
This mark, on the right hand etc. - are we talking literally here, was there anything literally like this in the times of Nero etc., and if not, what symbolism would the original readers have attached to it that we might translate into more contemporary ideas?
Lastly, the OP suggests that the meaning is likely to be intended to be clear to those who need the information, when they need it. As the meaning doesn't seem to have immediate clarity in relation to our own times - although some people who really study it might understand something about our own times and probably to some extent all times since it was written - does that suggest we don't need it at the moment, that it isn't surrently coming to fruition in the sense that people suggest who look for it in contemporary computer programs etc.? Or is it?

Originally posted by Anthony2
Which beast does the number refer to - the one out of the sea, the one out of the earth, or both?

Good question. Thinking about it, I suggest it's the "sea" beast in the first instance.
The reasoning is that the second beast is demanding that the people worship the first beast, so the mark would be a symbol of willingness to worship the first beast.
Having said that, I suggested the the root meaning of the number was about "worship of something human", and that would apply to both of them

This mark, on the right hand etc. - are we talking literally here, was there anything literally like this in the times of Nero etc., and if not, what symbolism would the original readers have attached to it that we might translate into more contemporary ideas?

I've certainly seen the suggestion that slaves had identification marks, so that the effect of the mark would be to identify people as the "slaves of the beast".
Alternatively, in my thread on the Mark (q.v.) I drew attention to the fact that God told his people to inscribe his law in the same places.
"You shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes"- Deuteronomy ch6 v8. If the Beast is getting his own mark put there, it's effectively replacing God's law with his own.
If the original readers were familiar with the Old Testament, they might well have picked up that reference.
In my own opinion, Pharisee practice notwithstanding, the instruction in Deuteronomy was not meant literally. It was a metaphor for "have them at the forefront of your mind". So if the marking in Revelation is a replacement for the one in Deuteronomy, there's no need for that one to be literal either.

Lastly, the OP suggests that the meaning is likely to be intended to be clear to those who need the information, when they need it. As the meaning doesn't seem to have immediate clarity in relation to our own times - although some people who really study it might understand something about our own times and probably to some extent all times since it was written - does that suggest we don't need it at the moment, that it isn't surrently coming to fruition in the sense that people suggest who look for it in contemporary computer programs etc.?

Yes, I'm inclined to concur with that.

Some great theories here.
This thread`s getting really interesting !

Does Islam have a Revelations? Does it say the same things?

reply to post by lambros56

Thank you. Though some of the theories- dare I say?- are less great than others.

reply to post by subjectzero

Islam has its own traditions on the end-times, but I don't know how much is in the Koran. Some of them willl be more unofficial.
What is being said in Revelation is very closely tied to the centrality of Christ, so Islamic teachings would have to be different.

reply to post by DISRAELI

KORAN - I couldn't think of the text! Thank you. You don't hear much about alternative religious interpretations of end times prophecy.

reply to post by subjectzero

The whole idea of an "end-times" is really a Biblical one , because it has to do with God dealing with the sources of evil and getting rid of them once and for all,
Other religions are essentially expecting the world to go on indefinitely, with periodic times of crisis at most.