Workers angry over decision to subtract "cleanup pay" from claims

Originally posted by C09JayLT
reply to post by Danbones

 

Thanks for your underwhelming help there.

To each according to his need...
It was enough to stand you corrected.

Again, we return you to the movie in progress....

reply to post by CREAM


Yes this is like getting a settlement from an insurance company and then you go to work for them later and they deduct what they paided out from your income.

The fact that a settlement was made and then the guys went to work ofr the company is unrealated and this whatever his name is is just a crafty # talker.

In fact I listened to this jack# on tv the other day and he is a condescending clown that works for BP and this payout deal outside of court was simply a deal to screw some.







[edit on 22-7-2010 by Logarock]

I have a question to those who think the claims these people are doing is to high. How can anyone except the person making the claim know how much they may have made. They may have had a great season and made more than than their claims nobody knows for sure. These people aren't out here to rape the gov't for all they can get. These are hard working people just trying to keep the things they have worked hard to get.So to say they are asking for to much compensation is out right foolish.These people are also trying to keep the few people who work with them from getting to the point of no return. In all honesty the money they get fromBP is not enough since these waters they work in will never be the same ever.

Like it or not, the law is on BP's side on this issue. Initially, these folks had a "lost wage" claim. However, once gainfully employed, they no longer suffered lost wages; therefore, they have no claim for the lost wages. This is a fundamental of insurance and insurance laws.

These people should have sat on their duffs and not taken the BP clean-up jobs. Then they could have simply sat back and collected their lost wages with legitimate claims.

For these people to submit a claim for lost wages, when they are not losing wages.....well, that's borderline insurance fraud....and insurance fraud = higher premiums for us all.

Just my 2-cents

Originally posted by CREAM
For those who dont understand why this is unfair, this is how I see it-

Fisher Joe - Is owed $20,000 in claims. He works for BP to clean up and earns $5,000. The 5k is subtracted from the 20k and he gets 15k in claims.

Fisher Joe received $20,000 total from BP.

Fisher Bob - Also is owed $20,000 in claims. He does not work in the clean up.

Fisher Bod received $20,000 total from BP.

Now Fisher Joe is pissed he worked for BP for no reason! He could have relaxed like Bob and still received the same amount of money from BP.

Am I on the right track here? If so, BP is obviously out of line.



[edit on 22-7-2010 by CREAM]

This is Exactly the reason why it is unfair - Those fishermen who owned boats who could have been heroic and helped America out but instead sat on thier laurels are going to get exactly the same as those heroic fishermen who jumped to the cause. They:

1. sacrificed thier ships (whos hulls were eaten by corexit and are coated with life threatening chemicals now - a TOTAL waste of the ship),
- refer to "COREXIT” Dispersants “ALERT”

2. spent time away from thier families to ASSIST BP,

3. Who themselves will probably only live another 5 to 10 years max due to an overabundant exposure to several life threatening chemicals.
- refer to Toxicity Datasheet: Gulf Coast Chemicals

4. Whos families may develope illnesses because of these same chemicals

5. Who were forced to keep thier mouths shut an things they saw and knew were both illegal as well as criminally intended

6. Were forced to work without OSHA mandated Safety apparatuses while involved in this clean up.
- refer to Former Valdez Cleanup Worker Warns of Toxic Dangers in the Gulf ...

7. Who may have been cheated by BP on some of the wages owed to them.
- refer to Hundreds Of Fishermen Missing Checks From BP

8. Who's future Livelihoods, and those of thier wives and children have been utterly destroyed by BP.

9. Whos' homes and Whos' environments have been poisoned so severly that they will more than likely have to relocate to survive.

10 Who's Families and themselves had to witness the utter horror of Marine wildlife die before thier very eyes - the looks of these animals staring back at them in utter sadness and confusion never leaving their minds.

OK all you so called 'lets be fair' people, if indeed you really are trying to be fair here.

There are ten very relevant reasons why these fishermen who sacrificed all of the above, to recieve more than the other non participating fisherman's cut in the BP compensation package.

It truly sickens me that I had to line this out for you "people" - it makes me understand that you really have no clue about much, and do nothing but spew your ignorance to try to justify a policy that is built around CHEATING THE HEROES!

NOW... justify yourselves against THAT!

OK, and now for the question about the loss of our constitutional rights, Freedoms, and Checks and Balances...

I refer you to these Posts:

U.S. Political Secracy: TimeLine of Legislative Entrapment

The Obama / Holder Anti-Constitutional Agenda: 2 Cases to Prove it's Truth!

Obama: The Conspiracy that binds Conspiracies is upon us!

Then I will refer you to the CATO Institute, and refer you to several of thier articles on the subject:

The Cato Institute’s nationally and internationally recognized Centers and Projects tackle a wide range of topics, including health care, education, environment and energy, foreign policy, and international human rights. Scholars in these Centers and Projects vigorously apply America’s founding principles to key issues of the day, and are committed to countering the continued expansion of government beyond its constitutional constraints, and to confronting escalating attacks on individual rights.

⌐ "The Job Creation Myth" (Blasting Obama's Lies)
⌐ "This Week in Government Failure"
⌐ "Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America"
⌐ "Deployed in the U.S.A.: The Creeping Militarization of the Home Front"
⌐ "An Institutional Explanation for Corruption of Criminal Justice Officials"
⌐ "Paramilitary Police Don't Make Us Safer"
⌐ "Policing for Profit: The Abuse of Civil Asset Forfeiture"
⌐ "Of Course It Was Torture"
⌐ "Be a Good Victim"
⌐ "Mugged by the State"
⌐ "Supreme Court Ruling on Police Raids Endangers Citizens"
⌐ "Drug War Police Tactics Endanger Innocent Citizens"
⌐ "Remember Ruby Ridge"
⌐ "Back to Waco: The Waco case ought to reopen"
⌐ "The Constitutional Duties of Congress"
⌐ "Executive Orders and National Emergencies: How Presidents Have Come to "Run the Country" by Usurping Legislative Power"
⌐ "Impeachment: A Constitutional Primer"
⌐ "Read the Bills? How about Reading the Constitution?"
⌐ "I Am Finally Scared of a White House Administration"
⌐ "Clinton Stepped Beyond Constitutional Limits"
⌐ "Break Up the Congress!"
⌐ "Both Parties Find Trough to Their Liking" (OINK!!!)
⌐ "Price Gouging in the Public Interest"
⌐ "Is Hillary Clinton a Neocon?"
⌐ "Obama's Disappointing Secrecy"
⌐ "The Expanding Federal Police Power"
⌐ "The Tyranny of Good Intentions: How Prosecutors and Bureaucrats Are Trampling the Constitution in the Name of Justice"
⌐ "Court in Contempt of First Amendment"
⌐ "The New Assault on Free Speech"
⌐ "Obama's (and Bush's) Enemy Combatant Policy"
⌐ "Can Obama Assassinate Americans?"
⌐ "Obama, Congress Wink at Massive Surveillance Abuses"
⌐ "Americans' First Loyalty Must Be to the Constitution"
⌐ "Torture under Obama"
⌐ "George W. Obama"
⌐ "Making Criminals out of All Americans"
⌐ "The Second American Revolution"
⌐ "Obama Moves to Protect, Rather Than Fix, Patriot Act"

Need proof in Images? Here's an authentic Automobile License Plate Issued by the DMV of the District of Columbia:



ok... so now, all you Constitutionally Snug people... go find out how badly you have been RAPED!....

[edit on 7/22/2010 by Megiddodiddo]

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe

Originally posted by Megiddodiddo
claims are against loss of businesses, Livelihoods, Environments, lifestyles, health, and freedom of mobility. It's to compensate people who have bee adversely assaulted by BP's stupidity. It's to compensate the children who's lives are going to be turned upside down.

Do you have any compassion within you to fathom anything like this?

Those claims aren't affected by this decision. The fishermen are being employed right now by BP and those wages will be deducted from their eventual claims for lost income. What's wrong with that decision? It seems fair to me and many other posters.

But why am I doing any work at all then if I'm getting the same amount of money sitting on my *** doing nothing?

If you want me to work pay for it. Damages for destroying my normal source of income should be separate. You shouldn't have broken the system in the first place!

[edit on 22-7-2010 by ntech]

reply to post by Blanca Rose

You have chosen to practically kill your own thread with accusations, therefore leaving out the possibility of any meaningful discussion because you only want to see this issue they way you see it

I really don't think so. If this thread dies in a manner consistant with your claims then It's only obvious you'll be the first one who knows.

My accusations against the PROBE stem from another time when he trolled a thread of mine. This person, who has been here for 5 years knows the truth, but he instead chooses to flame the OP and blatantly misdirect people's concept on the subject matter by making absurd inquiries about possibilities contrary to the nature of the OP - thus trying to prove this OP as BOGUS with the use of alienating and derrogatory assumptions.

And I might add, no corroborating proof to back up his absurd inquiries...

That is also known as Trolling... ==

This is a prime example of big corporation using its clout to rob those it harmed.

A claim is for lost wages, damages to boats and other meaningful type of reasons. To want to deduct what money is paid in a claim from wages for clean up is to imply that BP wants the workers to work for free.

I cannot see how a claim and any money paid as part of that claim has anything to do with working 40 hours and getting paid for working those 40 hours. To want to deduct the claim money is to openly state that they want the workers to work for free when what work they do has nothing to do with claims.

I would think that the two are separate. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't feel wrong.

This is the same type of trickery that the government applies to those that work 20+ yrs in federal service and then go some where else and work for another 20 yrs and when qualified for retirement this is when the government will state that you cant collect two retirements even if you worked for it. It is a clear intent to not pay and to prevent losses to BP. It is a trickery use of the laws and this is exactly why those being robbed twice by BP should begin a class action suit and stop practices where a corporation like BP can refuse to pay you for work done because you submitted a claim.

This same crooked corrupt practice is the normal trick that the federal government does because I know. I worked two retirements and can only collect one. How is that fair? It isn't and that is why it is there. It is there to prevent paying those that have duly worked and qualified for the second retirement.

To be robbed because of the first has nothing to do with the second, but that is not how the government sees it and to protect their position, they legislate laws that allows them to deny someone like me what I earned through 20+ yrs of work. To keep my second retirement is robbery to me, but this is why I mention it because they are going to do the same with BP and I have no doubt that the Obama regime will legislate so that BP does not have to pay wages if a claim has been submitted.

Keeping these matters hidden from the public keeps anyone from asking what in the hell are these idiots in Congress and the Senate smoking?

Well, you get the picture. Too many laws on the books that allow corporations like BP to do what they do. The fact that Obama has done nothing is an example of the leadership that Obama does not have and will never exhibit. He is a failure as a president and a corrupt politician that could care less for the workers in the Gulf of Mexico..

Oh well, I hope the BP workers get some justice. Getting robbed after working is a crime. Didn't Obama just sign a bill about getting paid for work done so that illegals don't get cheated? How come that rule cant be applied to Americans? To me that is a good question that needs to be asked.

reply to post by MaxBlack


You hit this thread's topic right on the head my friend! Star for clarity!

I can see the injustice in this. Let's say Fisherman Joe worked for John the contractor and made $5,000. Bp is paying him his claim for $20,000. So he gets a total of $25,000. Fisherman Bob worked for BP and they deduct the $5,000 they paid him from his $20,000 claim. Joe and Bob both get $20,000 from BP, but Joe gets to keep the extra $5,000 he earned form working for someone other than BP.

Originally posted by MaxBlack
This same crooked corrupt practice is the normal trick that the federal government does because I know. I worked two retirements and can only collect one. How is that fair? It isn't and that is why it is there. It is there to prevent paying those that have duly worked and qualified for the second retirement.

I talked to a cop the other day...retired. They told him to take the SS or the PR. He said fine but they wont even give him the money he paid into the other. This has been going on long before Obama I would add.

Originally posted by Aggie Man
Like it or not, the law is on BP's side on this issue. Initially, these folks had a "lost wage" claim. However, once gainfully employed, they no longer suffered lost wages; therefore, they have no claim for the lost wages. This is a fundamental of insurance and insurance laws.

These people should have sat on their duffs and not taken the BP clean-up jobs. Then they could have simply sat back and collected their lost wages with legitimate claims.

For these people to submit a claim for lost wages, when they are not losing wages.....well, that's borderline insurance fraud....and insurance fraud = higher premiums for us all.

Just my 2-cents

I have reconsidered my opinion based on your post. All I can say is that BP isnt going to go after folks that got some other job after the settlement. A third party is doing the cash out for bp so as not to get this mess tied up in court for years with many cases....thus saving money while appearing to do pr work...this doesnt mean these folks have to sell thier souls. They could have always sued for other factors not just lost wages. They could sue on grounds of quality of life ect, lack of training to do anything other than a labor job if they cant fish, pay differential...just all sorts of things.

And what is BP paying these guys? Just think how fast they could get their money back if the payed a very high wage. They could screw them that way. Think about it...in the end it would be like these guys were working at a deficit wage... like paying back a loan...like giving away a years worth of fishing for a years worth of wages......AND BP WOULD PAY NOTHING. They paid a guy say 20k and he gave it all back the whole whiel working 40+. In the end bp would get all of its money back if they could make all they paid for lost wages go to work and then deduct and get the mess cleaned up at the same time.

The pivot point here is the mess. Its bps mess they have to pay to clean it anyway. The fact that some guy could or could not be setting around on his duff is not relevant because the mess remains. The guys could always go back fishing even if the had empty nets. What BP is saying is that you guys cant catch anything anyway so come to work for us and we will take back the payment for what you could have had in your nets. They are entitled to what they could have had plus any labor they perform to clean the mess. The settlement is based on fishing income and BP is liable for that plus any service rendered in the cleanup.

This is marxist labor mentality entering into the bussnes world to define these as laborers rather than bussnessmen. These big firms dont try this crap when they have something to settle. You blow it in that world you will pay for projections, market fluxuation, the cost of getting product from another dealer, replacement of equipment of any kind, loss incurred do to creating other markets for other firms do to your downtime, if those markets are lost you will pay for that based on projected loss over so many years in said market, loss do to higher insurance rates, you name it.

If I got a settlement under these bp conditions and then went to work for them I would insist on minimum wage.

And if I had to use my boat they would be billed accordingly. Thats a capital asset not something based on cost of said boat alone. Only get the wage for one man and doubel the normal rate for the boat based on what I was going to make with shrimp and what I am now doing for you. Plus fuel, deperciation, insurance ect.