EMT Accused Of Ignoring Dying Woman Is Killed [NYC]

reply to post by Miraj


I never jumped to conclusions....you said there was nothing you could do or would do, now your saying you would give her support, your back peddling and adding words. And now, that is how an EMT should behave, and have I believed that was what you meant, I wouldn't of said you were unfit but that isn't what you said.

reply to post by DaMod


Not for EMT basics in my state.. we have very little medicine we can give.

I'm not sure about Paramedics.. Im sure they got plenty more.. But I'm not a paramedic nor have I had the training.

reply to post by ALlENATlON

Suppose that was an error in what I intended to say.

But I would do what I can. But it's not much, and it's not going to suddenly relieve the situation.

reply to post by getreadyalready

unless there was a real EMT in the area, such as the ones that walked away. Then my priority would have been jerking them back to the scene while I dialed 911

I wonder if Good Samaritan Laws would protect me when I assaulted an EMT and forced them to administer BLS while I dialed 911? Seems appropriate doesn't it?

A little off-topic. I was 6 when my little brother was born. He got choked a lot, and a Pediatrician lived across the street from us. One night he got choked and we could not get him unchoked. My mom did dial the ambulance, but the baby started to turn blue. My Dad swooped him up and ran across the street and began beating on the door. The Doctor answered the door and my dad thrust the baby into the doctors arms. The Doctor was foreign and didn't speak good English but he said, "Malpractice" and thrust the baby back at my father. For about 1/10th of a second there was an unusual look of rage and desperation, and then my dad grabbed the doc by the throat with one hand, picked him up off the ground and said, "You'll breathe again when he does." And he waited. A few seconds later the Doc reached out and put one hand behind the babies neck, and put one finger down his throat and gave him a little wiggle and the baby gagged and projected something across the porch!

Baby lived...he is my brother, MeMarf1 on ATS. Doc lived too! Although we were never real close as neighbors.

[edit on 19-7-2010 by getreadyalready]

Tragic all around. The initial inaction was very sad, and its ironic he was being charged, because emergency helpers can be sued and charged for any mishaps while helping, even if by helping the mishap saves the persons life. This is WHY some walk away, if something had happened that moment could have ruined the rest of his life and any potential family too. The US is a nation where everyone sues at the drop of a hat. This may not be why he walked away, its only speculation, and a theory. And I wish he had helped her.

But KARMA is a trap, and we must not judge anyone. Ho'onoponopono and forgiveness, cleansing and helping, loving is far more helpful. This man was young himself and there are 3 victims here and its all tragic.

I don't support karma or a harsh duality system in any way shape or form, and find peoples snap jugdments disheartening. And yet, judging others and wishing for captital and torturous punsihment of others, who are your family stems out of incredibly low self esteem.
Lessons are best learnt in an atmosphere of love, safety, yet creative freedom too.

reply to post by Miraj

I was making a stupid example..

Yes I agree with the above.

AED is considered BLS Care: Basic life support and automated external defibrillation

reply to post by Miraj


You have an epinephrine shot right? A defibrillator? All to keep someone from dying right? Well Albuterol is basically the asthmatic's lifeline. It's a basic rescue inhaler. Isn't that what rescue inhalers are for?

I'm not knocking your profession by any means I just think certain things should be mandatory. I mean how much space does an inhaler take up? Hell the stuff would probably be sold OTC where it not for possible inhalation abuse...

reply to post by DaMod

You don't have any Albuterol sulfate in an ambulance?

I do not know about maj's state, but in Texas and Colorado where I have been a paramedic, You have to be on a ALS Ambulance to carry Albuterol.

ALS-Advanced Life Support, meaning Paramedics will be treating the patient.

reply to post by theability


Ah, pardon my ignorance I'm not familiar with the practices of Emergency Medical Technicians.

I find it a bit disturbing though that certain medications (such as epinephrine and albeuterol) wouldn't be there just in case..

As a trained nurse myself I can tell you that off duty nurses here in the UK will very often NOT go to people's assistance. I was told this by nurses who explained that if anything goes wrong a trained nurse would be liable.

Put it this way, if Joe public gives help and something goes wrong then he won't be held accountable because he didn't know what to do in the first place.

Whereas a nurse is expected to know what to do therefore if something goes wrong they can be held liable.

It's ridiculous I know but thats the way it is. The nurses will walk away from potential trouble rather than get involved.

Not all nurses will do this, but many will.

reply to post by DaMod


We carry epinephrine but it could not be used for an asthma attack. It is strictly for allergic reactions only.

AED yes. But think about the issue here, She would go into cardiac arrest because of respiratory arrest.

Not that I wouldn't exhaust the option just to exhaust it, but it likely would not do as well if we couldn't fix her airway.

But these are pointless as the EMTs here had none of this.

I made a mistake in saying "there's nothing I could of done".. I meant that I couldn't suddenly run and get some inhaler or shot to fix her.

Sorry that I didn't clarify it earlier.

reply to post by DaMod


There should be some things that are mandatory.. But EMS is very beaurocratic. I could not leave my county to go work for someone else without having an entirely different set of protocols, provided equipment.

It's very chaotic unfortunately.

reply to post by Miraj


Well first of all I already know what Epinephrine is used for. I threw that out there because really it would be insanity for an EMT to not have an Epi-pin...

AED Obviously.

An albeuterol inhaler has a good chance of stopping an Asthma attack. I know because my wife is asthmatic.

And just saying, Insulin would be the 4th necessary item to have on board.

[edit on 19-7-2010 by DaMod]

reply to post by DaMod

I find it a bit disturbing though that certain medications (such as epinephrine and albeuterol) wouldn't be there just in case.

I agree with you 110%.

We fight with our physician advisors all the time about things like this, but the Board of Medical Examiners don't feel like changing things.

reply to post by theability


Well although this is a bit OT. I am a bit irked by the idea that where my wife to have a severe asthma attack, the EMT's wouldn't be able to do anything about it before she got to the hospital. I mean, she could die! I don't think the bureaucracy excuse would settle too well with a widower. Not in the slightest.

reply to post by theability


Yes, but in a room with 20 people there are probably 10 with inhalers!

I don't know how many onlookers were at the seen, and if these EMT's were actually 911 operators, they may have had very little knowledge. Miraj is correct in one aspect. EMT's are NOT Paramedics. Basic Outdoorsmen, hunters, athletes, parents, coaches, babysitters, are probably all equally or more qualified than a basic EMT. Recognizing that this was in fact an asthma attack may have been a key issue.

Still, I think if I were a laymen on the scene, I would have tried everything I know about opening airways. Surely someone in the room had an inhaler? Surely someone would have recognized an asthma attack? Surely there was a police officer or an ambulance or a fire truck within minutes of the location? Surely if people had acted quickly and assertively they would have found an inhaler, and got emergency personnel on scene within a few minutes?

reply to post by DaMod

And just saying, Insulin would be the 4th necessary item to have on board.

NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS!!!!

Insulin is so damn dangerous, it has no reason to exist in a Emergency Medical setting.

You can fry someones brain in seconds with the stuff, they'd never ever give this to paramedics.

Only nurses and doctors can administer this stuff for good reasons, liability.

reply to post by getreadyalready


The problem is that you are most certainly correct.

Sometimes it sucks being right. Doesn't it.

reply to post by getreadyalready

Yes, but in a room with 20 people there are probably 10 with inhalers!

EXCELLENT POINT!!!

Here in Texas the Basic EMT's can help a patient use their own medicines.

So yes that is a valid point!

reply to post by theability


Fair enough. I've just seen what happens to a diabetic without insulin. It's not pretty. Just threw it out there for that reason.

You are right though, it is dangerous.