Burka Ban Ruled Out As 'Rather Un-British'

I don’t think the real problem in Brittan is how multi cultured we are becoming rather it is the groups who seek to halt and reverse our culture my marginalising ethnic and social groups who they consider to be “un-British”. I am of course thinking about the BNP and EDL, banning religious dress is only a victory for them.

Well correct me if i'm wrong but there's NOTHING in the Koran that says a muslim woman should be forced into wearing a Burka.

The Koran simply states

"And say to the faithful women to lower their gazes, and to guard their private parts, and not to display their beauty except what is apparent of it, and to extend their headcoverings (khimars) to cover their bosoms (jaybs), and not to display their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband's fathers, or their sons, or their husband's sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their womenfolk, or what their right hands rule (slaves), or the followers from the men who do not feel sexual desire, or the small children to whom the nakedness of women is not apparent, and not to strike their feet (on the ground) so as to make known what they hide of their adornments. And turn in repentance to Allah together, O you the faithful, in order that you are successful"

The Holy Quran. Sura Nur (Chapter: The Light". Verse 31

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Which i do disagree with but if you read the above it simply says 'not to display their beauty' - which could mean just wearing a hijab or another type of headscarf as opposed to a full concealment.

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So the religion arguement doesn't work.

Also compare say Turkey to Saudi Arabia or parts of Europe. Not all muslim women wear the Burka in Turkey, in fact a lot of muslim women simply dress modestly. In parts of Iran it is the government who are recently reinforcing the headscarves and burka's on a westernised youth.

In parts of India - Mumbai etc, you will find Muslim (and Hindu) women wearing t-shirts and jeans.

So - the idea and notion that it is typical dress for muslims is wrong.

In a nutshell - I think we don't need to have burkas for several reasons, but primarily for the rights of women and security.

the burka doesn''t have to worn as part of the religion, as such don't relate it as such - its a choice, one normally enforced by the husbands, it is horrible seeing these in britain i can't think of anything worse than having to wear these on a hot sunny day.

also i can't think of any reason to wear one other than to hide in plain site, it is a security risk.

its so daft here in the uk - theres even talks of brining islam law in for them - this is ridiculous, if you want to live by your own laws go back to your own country if you want to be in the uk - live as we do and learn to fit in and not stand out!!.

Interesting twist:

Do you guys think Burka-wearers would be offended if our youth started wearing them as a fashion-statement or for clubs/discos? And should wearing them for that purpose be banned?

Questions over Questions...

reply to post by mr-lizard


I dont see it as about religion, but about the right to wear what you want. What right does the government have to force you to show your face? What if you are horribly disfigured and want to cover up? What is the difference between wearing a hat and a big pair of sunglasses or wearing a wig and a wig and a pair of glasses?

reply to post by tothetenthpower


What does it have to do with it? The demographic of people that wear those ninja suits are decidedly non anglo in make up. If you ban them it wiil be a victory for the non muslim people who only founded the country that these parasite feed upon. It is a deterioration of British culture which it seems the people over there dont give a damn about. The only group that could make a difference is the BNP, but that would be just too mean. I mean Britain for British? Thats absurd.

Your logic states that islam should do whatever they want as long as the British government lets them do it. Its no fault of islam if they alter and destroy the whole culture. Isnt that the arguement of all the people on the left bitching about the West and what they are doing to Iraq and A.stan? Its okay to do that to the UK but not the "culture" of the middle east. Strange world view you have there.

Originally posted by kevinunknown
I don’t think the real problem in Brittan is how multi cultured we are becoming rather it is the groups who seek to halt and reverse our culture my marginalising ethnic and social groups who they consider to be “un-British”. I am of course thinking about the BNP and EDL, banning religious dress is only a victory for them.

No... It's NOT a religious issue.

There are female muslim feminist novelists who have written about this very notion. Surely they know more about their own dress sense and religious rights than us non-muslims?

The idea that it's a victory for the BNP and EDL disturbs me, as I respect neither - yet you are already categorising my opinions into your own self-perceived (and false) notion that this is a left wing / right wing arguement, when it's simply a case of proving to the world that the burka holds no value in a religious sense.

Only the false ideologies and rumours that YOU are believing are what continues to add fuel to the political agenda which you mentioned.

Originally posted by ZuluChaka
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

I dont see it as about religion, but about the right to wear what you want. What right does the government have to force you to show your face? What if you are horribly disfigured and want to cover up? What is the difference between wearing a hat and a big pair of sunglasses or wearing a wig and a wig and a pair of glasses?

So are you saying i could wear a full face balaclava or a motorbike helmet and walk around unbothered by the police?

Somehow i don't think so.

reply to post by mr-lizard


Well maybe not in the nanny state of England, but here in the US you could. You should be free to run around in a full helmet if you want.

reply to post by shai hulud


Well I think we know where you stand on the issue, using language such as "these bastards" and "parasites."

You do realise muslims are humans too?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Interesting twist:

Do you guys think Burka-wearers would be offended if our youth started wearing them as a fashion-statement or for clubs/discos? And should wearing them for that purpose be banned?

Questions over Questions...

Awesome idea. Actually my friend jokingly suggested a union jack coloured burka.

interesting point though.

Originally posted by ZuluChaka
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

Well maybe not in the nanny state of England, but here in the US you could. You should be free to run around in a full helmet if you want.

That probably explains the high amount of school shootings and gun related murders in the USA, simply because nobody got a good look at the assailant?

And you though the UK had problems.... Sheesh.

But on a serious note - can you elaborate on the 'nanny state' idea. Apart from health and safety policies and high taxes, i don't think we are too 'nannied' but i'm sure you can enlighten me.... Try and not use the phrase' CCTV on every street corner' or i'll be forced to take a picture of every street corner in a mile radius and then upload them just to prove you wrong.

reply to post by mr-lizard


How can you say it’s not a matter of religion, of course it is, your quote makes it clear that some covering is required and the Burka is the one of the traditional Muslim dresses that is used to achieve this. Don’t try to manipulate to appear to be something else just so you can further your own agenda. Notwithstanding the religious implications of a ban it is a direct breach of civil liberties and a indirect attack on all religious groups.

The BNP and EDL are both racist movements who would support this move and actively campaign in its favour and thus they would call it a victory for their movements.

reply to post by Kram09


Nope. Anyone who cuts peoples appendages off and stones people as a religious practice and "honor" kills their women are not human.

There was a case a few years back where a woman sued the state of Illinois to be able to wear her face covering(forget the name for it, hijab maybe?) for her drivers liscense photo. You could only see her eyes. Freedom of religon is fine but there has to be limits.

reply to post by mr-lizard

That probably explains the high amount of school shootings and gun related murders in the USA, simply because nobody got a good look at the assailant?

Possibly it does. Nobody ever said that freedom didnt come at a cost. I would rather have a few school shootings an gun related murders and be free to have guns and wear what I want than be just a tad safer and be treated like a retarded child.

Maybe you guys need to ban burkas because your poor cops dont have anything to use other than a club or because your government keeps rolling over for the muslim groups because they FEAR them.

At least in America if there was a terrorist wearing a burka and she pulled out a gun then the citizens could legally pull out their and pop a cap in her ass.

I feel sorry for you poor Brits. I dont really know if you never had any rights or you just rolled over buns up and handed them over.

[edit on 18-7-2010 by ZuluChaka]

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter

 

Yeah, because everybody who wears a burka is abused and lives a life of neglect right??

Again, people make statements about things they do not understand, out of fear.

~Keeper

Explain then why there are ex muslim women?

www.islam-watch.org...

www.bibleprobe.com...

Remember that picture on tha top^ ?

councilofexmuslims.com...



Sometimes ATS reminds me of a roleplaying type of game.

Originally posted by shai hulud
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

What does it have to do with it? The demographic of people that wear those ninja suits are decidedly non anglo in make up. If you ban them it wiil be a victory for the non muslim people who only founded the country that these parasite feed upon.

Well you obviously have made up your mind about Islam if you refer to them as "parasites".

It is a deterioration of British culture which it seems the people over there dont give a damn about. The only group that could make a difference is the BNP, but that would be just too mean. I mean Britain for British? Thats absurd.

No, the group that could make a difference is the British people, all you need to do is get informed and have proper politicians, it's not that difficult.

Your logic states that islam should do whatever they want as long as the British government lets them do it. Its no fault of islam if they alter and destroy the whole culture.

You're allowing it to be destroyed, it's no "Islam" that's destroying Brithish, it's the religious extremists that have taken control of your country. You can't demonize a whole sect of society for the actions of few.

~Keeper

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

How can you say it’s not a matter of religion, of course it is, your quote makes it clear that some covering is required and the Burka is the one of the traditional Muslim dresses that is used to achieve this. Don’t try to manipulate to appear to be something else just so you can further your own agenda. Notwithstanding the religious implications of a ban it is a direct breach of civil liberties and a indirect attack on all religious groups.

The BNP and EDL are both racist movements who would support this move and actively campaign in its favour and thus they would call it a victory for their movements.

What exactly am i manipulating? If you told me that it was a requirement of Sikhs to wash their turbans thrice daily, i would correct you, just as i did by mentioning that Muslim women do NOT have to wear a burka.

I'm sorry if the basic facts confused you. You can accuse me of having an agenda if it makes you happier / sadder / more paranoid, i genuinely don't care.

Yes the EDL and BNP are racist, but to group me with them is deplorable, just as much as if i called you a terrorist sympathizer just because you don't know the facts about Islam and its dress code. I could accuse you of believing that the uncovered muslim women are somehow failing at their own religion...

This type of ignorance is partially what forces more women into these things. I bet you didn't know that muslim women are FORBIDDEN for wearing their head scarves in public buildings in certain muslim countries (Tunisia and Turkey).

But then again you'd probably accuse those women of being BNP activists??

Please correct me if i'm wrong.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


Are you trying to say that if some muslim women were forced to wear Burkas then they should be banned? So does that mean if some women were tied up with rope during a rape, we should be ban rope?

What if non-muslim men or women want to wear burkas for a fashion statement? Should that be banned?

[edit on 18-7-2010 by ZuluChaka]