You can not stop them...

What it comes down to in the end is that you CAN NOT STOP THEM!!!!!

You can throw all the money you want at trying to stop so called Illegals and you will never stop them.

You could position people 50ft apart all along the border and it will not stop them.

The only way you could ever hope to stop them is to make America such a horrible place no one wants to come here anymore. Long before that happens I will be hopping the fence into Mexico and so will a lot of other people.

Like it or not. Those are the facts.

Some more illumination for all you supposedly "free thinkers". You people are so focused on the border and Mexican illegals that you do not even realize that the vast majority of "illegals" entering this country do it through our many ports.Or on work, travel and student visas.

Oh ya and Mexican/Central & South American's account for about 20% of all "illegals" entering this country.

30% come from SE Asia, China, and the Various Pacific islands.

20% come from the former member states of the Soviet Union.

10% for the continent of Africa. Though i believe this number is way under-reported as Africans have an easier time blending in.

The remaining 20% comes from Persia, the Indian sub-continent and western Europe..

Why do your leaders have you so focused on southern border? Why are they only speaking out against those "dirty Mexicans"?

I have a hypothesis.

We (and I use the term loosely as i hesitate to lump myself in with this madness) don't actually HAVE an immigration problem.

This "problem" is just another in long list of crisis that have been fabricated by your leaders to generate fear. Like the climate change hoax, they invent some problem that supposedly only government can fix. In exchange for "just a few more" freedoms and an obscene amount of money they can "fix" it for you.

So i say again. You do not have an Immigration problem. Lets look at one of the big, so called arguments of the anti-illegal crowd.

"They clog up our social service programs". Welfare/food stamps, Public Schools, Hospitals etc.

Sorry, but none of these are an immigration issue.

Illegals getting welfare is a WELFARE issue. Even if you agree with the concept of welfare, i personally don't, it would be a simple enough matter to just turn off the spigot. Don't like the "illegals" getting the welfare... Stop friggin giving it to them. According to polls you guys have 80% of America with you. Surely your government would listen to you, right? Good luck with that.

Schools being forced to admit the children of "illegals" is not an "illegal" immigration problem. Mandatory public schooling is the problem. If you people would stop sending your children to them, there would be no public schools. As it should be. Mandatory public schooling is the biggest farce yet perpetrated upon supposedly free people in the history of freedom itself. Public schooling has nothing to do with education and everything to do with indoctrination, obedience and conformity. Oh, and it is funded by theft. Get rid of mandatory public school and you not only solve the "illegal" problem but you solve a great many others as well. With the added benefit of having a nation of well educated, highly responsible, critically thinking adults with TRUE freedom not this illusion of freedom you have now... in a generation.

The idea of the government telling a private business who they have to serve or not serve. Or how they have to do business. Is so antithetical to the idea of freedom that every freedom loving person should recoil in horror at the thought. Hospitals being forced to care for "illegals" is a government sticking it nose where it don't belong problem, not a "illegal" immigration problem.

Now lets address the reason i put quotation marks around the word illegal when i use it, and another of the anti "illegal" immigration planks.

"But they are breaking the LAW"

Law in this country is a joke. The enforcement of laws in America is so arbitrary it is laughable. Enforcement ultimately comes down to the person doing the enforcing. Since people are fallible, enforcement is also fallible. If a cop hates drugs he is going to enforce drug laws, if he smokes pot, he isn't going to enforce pot laws. The same cop may hate coc aine and would enforce that drug law. See, arbitrary. Immigration laws are just as arbitrary.

The process to "legally" immigrate to this country is bull#. It amounts to a bribe. Do you know how much it costs to "legally" immigrate to the U.S.? close to 10 grand. Why do people have to pay this bribe to be eligible to live here? Who do you think get shafted by this policy? Poor people maybe?

Why do they have to take all those stupid citizenship tests? Tests i might add, that i doubt 75% of high school graduates could pass. Who do you think that policy discriminates against. Uneducated people?

So who do the immigration laws actually discriminate against? Looks like poor, uneducated people to me. Rich, educated people don't have any problems immigrating here. So when you say "but their illegal". What you should be saying is "I don't want the same freedom for today's poor, uneducated people that was afforded to MY poor, uneducated ancestors." Mighty christian of ya.

The last so called issue i will address is the "Their taking our jobs/ruining our economy"'

Complete and total humbug. I'm sorry, but if an uneducated person from another culture, who cant even speak the local language takes your job...you should probably be deported.

Personal story time... are you not so excited!?

I work in the oil biz. On the drilling/exploration side. I work as a field geologist mapping oilfields for oil companies. Part of that job is living and working on site while drilling. Looking at the cuttings coming up, monitoring gas and oil shows etc. I have a lot of interaction with the actual drilling crews, called roughnecks. In my experience the Mexican crews are generally superior to non-Mexican crews in every way.

Generally the crew consisted of 5 people, 4 of which knew no english at all or maybe a few words. 1 person knew enough english to be the interpreter for the rest. These crews are highly sought after, and there is a good reason they get work over say white crews. Nope that reason. They make they same wage as every other roughneck in that area does. Roughly 15-30 bucks an hour depending on the drilling company. When the oilfield slowed way down in 2008-09 all the mexican crews were still working when over 200k oilfield personnel sat around and collected unemployment.

This was so because of one simple reason. They work harder, bitch less, and are generally more grateful. Between connections a typical mexican crew would be working cleaning the rig, maintaining the rig and other equipment. They were always busy. They would even go so far as to clean the trailers we lived in and wash our vehicles. They were friendly as hell. They all ways cooked enough food for everyone on site. They are real big on family, loyalty, and hard work. Most white crews,(there are very very few black people in the oilfield sadly) during this time would be sleeping,drinking, doing drugs, fighting, running there mouth etc. I know its just anecdotal but it's my experience with "illegals" in my workplace.

The "they are ruining our economy" argument is a logical fallacy. The idea that "illegals" don't pay taxes is ludicrous. Most have fake papers, fake DL and SS card etc. They still pay all the same taxes you do. The big difference is, that even if they lived and worked here for 20 years and paid into the system the whole time they can never get SSI, social security, non of it. So they pay into the system but place no drain on it. That seems like it adds to "society" to me.

Even the ones who don't pay into the system through payroll deduction still get taxed when they spend money. Just about everything you buy has some form of tax, tariff or other hidden cost. Such as the hidden cost of paying for retarded government regulations. Again, since they are labeled "illegal" by society they pay into the system for "services"(# what a joke government "service" is) they won't/can't use those services for fear of getting deported. So they are in fact paying "there fair share" whatever the # that's supposed to mean.

There, laid it out for ya neat and simple.

Um...sources? I don't believe jack until I see a source....and you seem to have a lot of statistics.

reply to post by Nicademus


I disagree 100%.
It can be well regulated.
There IS a real problem.
I'll grant you the ability to manipulate through the media, but my eyes?, I trust. I see it here where I live NE Ohio and W Pa, and I surely saw it for the entire 2 weeks I was in SoCal this year, and Arizona last year,
it's not a myth.
It's not a dirty mexican problem, a greasy italian problem, a drunken irish problem, or anyother colorful racist remark problem,
but it surely is a real problem.

I wish I could give you more stars and flags. This is exactly the type of wake up call is needed in the endless array of racism, and lack of empathy for people less fortunate. They blame the people that come here but not the people who hire them. As if there is some type of conspiracy to get Mexicans to take jobs away from American... oh wait there is, its called Corporations.

No one cared when illegals were doing menial jobs, and receiving low wages, until the media told them too. half of the people that complain don't know an illegal immigrant, they just follow the MSM, and what ever their local newspaper tells them too. No one wants to here that they participate in our society. That's supposed to be an urban legend.

We happen to reside on a planet, that happens to have parts, but all of these parts have people, different colored people, different lifestyles, different heartaches, and different cultures, but that doesn't change the fact that we all reside on a planet. How the US thinks that we own it all, we can do all, and we know it all, is beyond me, the only difference between an illegal and a US citizen is, an illegal knows and acknowledges that hes getting screwed, as the other thinks everything is ok.

80% of the threads here have something to do with this country and the ailments that even.. yes even WE have to pay for ignorance, and bigotry. But you know what 100% of the threads here have something to do with us all. Pain and suffering is not for certain people, as we have learned for hundreds of years, for every person of one race has their stories so does the other, who told you, you say which one counts?

America, yes America allowed their jobs to be taken, allowed jobs to go overseas, allowed the school system to teach us nothing of value, we took it, and took it well, and I don't need a link, these are the facts, look around you. While other children are starving in another country, someones buying their kid a Miley Cyrus CD.

Hating is easier than loving or understanding, we don't see individuals, we see mobs, we don't see suffering, we see someone who deserved it. While were sitting around arguing about their country, the PTB are turning this one into the exact same thing. So fight, argue, disagree, turn a blind eye to the truth. That's fine, but when this finally hits home, and it will, I wonder where Americans are going to try to go.

Peace to ALL...

i dont know about that % breakdown..but sure some arent mexican.
one guy tries to tell me terrorists- but it seems they can more easily fly in..
theres bad hombres no doubt.- invasion? i'm not informed enough to say.
and i live in arizona. i spend time costa rica- the ticos all head to trenton for
some reason- roofing..
then nicas go into costa and work for cheaper.
and a tico might make 8 bucks a day.
hows that sound?- out in the pineapple fields- bugs , snakes, heat.
the del monte guy has a new land rover ,free house, and 60k a year..
maybe if we legalized marijuana and set them to growing hemp
alot of mexicans would stay home.
the ones in my hood all seem proud to be here- i can see american flags in the living room. at least somebody likes chevys-





[edit on 15-7-2010 by p51mustang]

I have to agree with the spanish workers. They work hard and go beyond what they are told to do. They have an entirely different work ethic than must of us do.

While we complain that the bathroom is dirty, they will clean it up for everyone else. It amazes me sometimes at the small things we complain about.


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reply to post by Nicademus


I loosely laugh in your general direction.
I would like to see your proof or evidence.
Have you personally seen a soldier every 50 feet all along the border?
there are ways to keep the masses out but every once in a while a single person will sneak through.
I don't quite understand why you would say what you said.

I agree with you 100% sir. You are looking at the real thing.

reply to post by Nicademus


"You cannot stop them! You can throw money at them, and it wont stop them." (I'm paraphrasing)

I dissagree with the first, and agree with the second (with amendment), and both prove my point.

You cannot stop them, but a .45 can, and QUIT throwing money, and start throwing copper jacketed LEAD!!!! THAT WILL STOP THEM!!!!!!