Ask An Atheist Anything

Are you scared of hell and what it will be like when you get there?

Are you scared to meet your maker; especially after denying Him?

The answer to both questions should be yes unless you change your mind, open your eyes and get right with
God THE CREATOR OF ALL ...




[edit on 31-7-2010 by AmericanDaughter]

reply to post by ChickenPie


Apologies for the dyslexia, i seem to have trouble over certain words and a lack of intuition for a spell check. Thanks for highlighting that.

Let me make this simple for you... Do or do you not believe the possibility of something eternal that ultimately set everything in motion is a plausible idea?

Believing in possibility is different from believing based on objectivity, If science provides the evidence to support (ireffutably) the existence of God and/or the infinite nature of the universe, i would subscribe to that belief.

And again, it goes back to what is in question here, the Atheist; the atheist refuses to believe in such a concept for a lack of evidence.

One of Murphy's laws: "A man without religon is like a fish without a bicycle."

or more relevant:

Albert Einstein: "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

[edit on 31/7/10 by awake_and_aware]

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by ChickenPie

 

Apologies for the dyslexia, i seem to have trouble over certain words and a lack of intuition for a spell check. Thanks for highlighting that.

You're telling me you can't learn to spell "unnecessarily" because you're dyslexic? LUL!

Believing in possibility is different from believing based on objectivity

Yes...

If science provides the evidence to support (ireffutably) the existence of God and/or the infinite nature of the universe, i would subscribe to that belief.

OK.

But science will only find God if He allows Himself to be found. Read my thread on that here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Consequently, it's not the best idea to wait around for science to prove or disprove God.

Albert Einstein was also quoted as saying, "We ran out of toilet paper!"

[edit on 31-7-2010 by ChickenPie]

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by adjensen
How would you ever expect to find common ground or, at the very least, gain respect for your view if you misrepresent your opponent over and over?

How is there common ground between an Atheist and a Theist?

Um... we're both human beings and presumably interested in making the world a better place?

Wouldn't that be a separate thread? "How can Atheists and Theists co-exist?

I think this thread is actually about Atheism. Or questions about Atheism.

None of which you answer effectively. There seems to be a pattern here.

Someone asks something. You answer. Someone points out an error in what you've said. You jump to the conclusion that they are insisting you believe in God. That person replies that God has nothing to do with it, you've made a factual error. You reply, taking what is said out of context, or entirely misrepresenting what they said. They call you on it. You get snooty, and rather than saying "okay, maybe I was wrong there", you just shift the discussion to something else.

Awake_and_aware naturally assumed that I was against evolution and made his pithy statement to that effect. When I replied that that was untrue, he tried again with his "intelligent design" bait. When that didn't work, he threw out his "faith is illogical" invective, because the best argument is one that belittles the other person.

Frankly, you all come off as being as intolerant and prejudiced as the raging religious types you claim to be opposed to.

But science will only find God if He allows Himself to be found.

Lets hope he allows it....then we can stop needless discussions like these. It seems that if God were onmipotent he would be able to end these debates once and for all, but i guess he's just toying with us.

Consequently, it's not the best idea to wait around for science to prove or disprove God.

I agree, thats partly why i'm atheist and the fact i think its tragic that in this day and age of information, knowledge, technology that people are being led astray by phoney concepts of what God might be like, and revealing them as absolute truth and people are having to debate them to show them why it's illogical.

Originally posted by adjensen
Frankly, you all come off as being as intolerant and prejudiced as the raging religious types you claim to be opposed to.

I resent that, when have i ever insisted my beliefs based on no evidence? When have i decreed what is "right" and "wrong" based on archaic literature proposing a metaphysical being with threats of hellfire?. I've never opposed gay love, as i have never opposed love, i have never opposed freedom of speech, as i believe in liberation, i have never opposed question or reason as i believe in truth and logic. I have never demanded i am correct, for belief in a book, a supernatural being.

What's better is i would never inpose that kind of thing on a child, i would let them think for themselves, and teach themvalues of empathy and social understanding, and i will certainly fight that liberation of thought for our future generations.

I fight against the type of people who are intolerant of other people, with their prejiduces, who deny the fact of evolution, deny the earth is considerably older than 4000 years, the type of people that give our children prejiduces against science, against gays and womens right, prejiduces that divide our societies, our continents. And you claim i am the intolerant one.

I back up my arguments with cogent and rationalised arguments to combat the irrationality and submission of people into a book written by MAN, not God, revealsed wisdom without the need for any evidence to found it.


No other aspect of philosophy, discussion or debate would succumb to such ways of reasoning, to infer to an unfalsifiable dictator of the universe depicted in a book written centuries ago as a vice to support your argument

[edit on 31/7/10 by awake_and_aware]

Originally posted by awake_and_aware

Originally posted by adjensen
Frankly, you all come off as being as intolerant and prejudiced as the raging religious types you claim to be opposed to.

I resent that, when have i ever insisted my beliefs based on no evidence? When have i decreed what is "right" and "wrong" based on archaic literature proposing a metaphysical being with threats of hellfire?. I've never opposed gay love, as i have never opposed love, i have never opposed freedom of speech, as i believe in liberation, i have never opposed question or reason as i believe in truth and logic. I have never demanded i am correct, for belief in a book, a supernatural being.

That response implies that you don't understand the word "intolerant". Your attitude towards people of faith is one of intolerance and disrespect, and one only need to go read the things that you've written to see that. We could have had an interesting conversation about Christian and atheist perspectives on evolution, instead your hatred required you to insult me instead.

It doesn't matter how picky you are in whom you are intolerant of, intolerance is what it is.

What's better is i would never inpose that kind of thing on a child, i would let them think for themselves, and teach themvalues of empathy and social understanding, and i will certainly fight that liberation of thought for our future generations.

So you presume to tell people how to raise their children? And you're not intolerant... how?

I fight against the type of people who are intolerant of other people, with their prejiduces, who deny the fact of evolution, deny the earth is considerably older than 4000 years, the type of people that give our children prejiduces against science, against gays and womens right, prejiduces that divide our societies, our continents. And you claim i am the intolerant one.

Actually, you claim it, I merely point it out. For all your insults directed at me, I have no prejudice against science, homosexuality or women. I am merely a person who believes in God, and thus worthy of your disdain.

reply to post by adjensen

That response implies that you don't understand the word "intolerant". Your attitude towards people of faith is one of intolerance and disrespect

As a simple response, i don't think Religion deserves respect, and for the very reason that itself is intolerant or causes people to be. I have no disrepect for humble people not professing to have some revealed wisdom of the creator of the universe because they read a book and label themselves a follower.

You don't see me agressively debating the Deist or the Agnostic, you don't see me debating against charity, peace and human kindness, and understanding.

And im sorry if it appeared as if i was directing this despise towards yourself, I'm not saying that every Christian, every Jew is intolerant, i'm just saying believing what they believe pre-disposes them to be intolerant, the essense of what is taught in that Religion. Look around, look at the radical islamists, the crusades, the Sunnys and the SHiiates in Iran/Iraq, the conflict in Ireland and tension in Ireland. I have no patience for respecting these beliefs. Just as i have no respect for a scientist who claims he knows that there are fairies without evidence proving it.




[edit on 31/7/10 by awake_and_aware]

reply to post by awake_and_aware


So you've now added prejudice and bigotry to your admitted shortcomings. Nice. When you paint all Christians or people of faith, or even most of them, with your personal misgivings, you demonstrate prejudice. When you treat others with disrespect, you demonstrate bigotry. You've done both to me today, and I'm sure it is not an isolated thing.

There is nothing in the Christian faith that espouses intolerance. On the contrary, it is inclusive. We are to love everyone, regardless of their beliefs. You confuse organized religion with the core of the faith. There are many Christian churches that preach tolerance for homosexuals, for example, so it is not endemic to the faith, contrary to your belief. That some have intolerance it does not mean that all do.

Believe what you want, but if you refuse to show respect for the opinions and beliefs of others, regardless of what your reasons might be and act in a bigoted and prejudiced manner, you behave exactly like those you claim to deplore.

Civility. Give it a shot.

reply to post by adjensen


Sigh....say what you will, and i'm not disrespecting your integrity as a human being and never have, if you demontrate you're socially moral and understanding person, i would respect and comend you, I'm not saying you do or you don't behave in accordance with some of the preachings in scripture, because some of them show despicably out of date morals for this time, some don't (which i openly admit).

I'm saying i disrespect the abrahamic religions because each religion exclusively causes you to believe in one [almighty] God, dividing society and causing predjiduce and hatred (in extreme cases) Its a historical fact and legacy, but i'm not saying that religion is only to blame. There other reasons that have divided society and caused hatred, Hitler, for example - why would i NOT be intolerant of his beliefs that cause me to hate another human race, i have justification for my scorn. As do i with religion.

But let me get this straight, i am intolerant of religion because it has caused atrocities and hatred and still does. I'm an anti-theist, it would be a bit contradictory if i was openly tolerant of the religion and the hatred, division i percieve it to have caused.




[edit on 31/7/10 by awake_and_aware]

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by adjensen

 

Sigh....say what you will, and i'm not disrespecting your integrity as a human being and never have, if you demontrate you're socially moral and understanding person, i would respect and comend you, I'm not saying you do or you don't behave in accordance with some of the preachings in scripture, because some of them show despicably out of date morals for this time, some don't (which i openly admit).

So you're saying that I need to prove myself to you in order to be treated respectfully? Geez, you're making yourself look worse with each response. Where is equality in your world? I'm equal if I believe exactly what you believe and act in a way that you approve of?

But let me get this straight, i am intolerant of religion because it has caused atrocities and hatred and still does. I'm an anti-theist, it would be a bit contradictory if i was openly tolerant of the religion and the hatred, division i percieve it to have caused.

So, let's summarize, then. You are an admittedly intolerant and prejudiced bigot, who believes that children should be raised according to your wishes, not their parents', and you stand for the destruction of the institution of faith, which for millions of devout people, represents a joyful and enriching part of their lives.

All this due to the misplaced, unsupported and illogical belief that, in the absence of religion, people would no longer do evil.

What on Earth makes you even begin to believe that you hold some sort of moral high ground?

[edit on 31-7-2010 by adjensen]

Originally posted by adjensen

What on Earth makes you even begin to believe that you hold some sort of moral high ground?

[edit on 31-7-2010 by adjensen]

Indeed, especially when he believes his rationality and morality are merely a byproduct of naturalistic events that hold no intrinsic value.

reply to post by adjensen

So you're saying that I need to prove myself to you in order to be treated respectfully? Geez, you're making yourself look worse with each response. Where is equality in your world? I'm equal if I believe exactly what you believe and act in a way that you approve of?

I never asked anything of you, i merely stated i cannot judge you based on a forum posting, and i havn't, and i won't, the subject at matter is atheism, i'm showing you why i don't support theism or why i don't respect it, and why i think its despicable to label our children with a relgion.

So, let's summarize, then. You are an admittedly intolerant and prejudiced bigot, who believes that children should be raised according to your wishes, not their parents', and you stand for the destruction of the institution of faith, which for millions of devout people, represents a joyful and enriching part of their lives.

What an indecent, unreasoned and ignorant exuse for a summary. And i'm the bigot?

Completely and, without remorse, twisting my words and making assumptions, and to be quite honest; slanderous. I'm intolerant? so what if i'm intolerant towards religion, mostly of which lets people be intolerant, who are you to call me a bigot for opposing that or opposing the predjiduces and delusions its followers are subject to, consiously or unconsiously. Its the essense i'm getting at, you...know...the crazy deluded belief that they claim to have revealed knowledge of reality and morality because they worship literature.

And as for children, i believe in freedom and nuture without religion, not raised to my WISHES (as you so hastly and ignorantly suggested), or labelled or be made subject to moral values in scripture which are out of date, and unreasoning , I would let them have the choice, show them how to reason and look at both sides of arguments, and frankly not to believe in anything without evidence. Thats not disrespect, thats courage, thats democracy.

I didn't wish for the destruction, i just think the essense of it is dividing communities, societies, countries, and continents. I do not respect that. I have no haste with a christian man that does good things and is only believing for sake of enriching his life or because it gets him through the day, but what i do despise is when religion is used as a warrant to do evil things, and claim them as good. Whether its calling non-believers sinners or promoting gay hatred or casting prejiduces like keeping the sabbath holy, or you can't save a life if you do not believe in blood transfusions. This is what i hate, not Christians who are tolerant and understanding, and keep their moral beliefs to themselves if they wish to believe in things without evidence .

Now please think before slandering me and twisting my words into what you want me to be percieved as.

All this due to the misplaced, unsupported and illogical belief that, in the absence of religion, people would no longer do evil.

What nonsense, who ever suggested that. You take away religion and you've still got poor people stealing and doing crime for example, Atheism isn't a resolution for crime, or whatever "evil" acts you're talking about whether it be rape, or anything else despicable. And i've never said that nor has any atheist.

What on Earth makes you even begin to believe that you hold some sort of moral high ground?

I don't, i don't claim to have a perfect model of morality, of right and wrong, but i will certainly act with kindness, passion, reason, dignity and honesty. I won't respect those who do evil things without evidence for their justification other than babbel written down on paper.

That is what i'm against, not you, not truely reasoing people Christians or not, take it personally if you wish, but i am not judging you.

Please read carefully, and realise i'm not a bigot , i'm tolerant when tolerance is deserved. The golden rule comes in useful, do unto others as you would have them do to yourself (unless your a Sado-Masochist!)

Peace and good luck.


[edit on 31/7/10 by awake_and_aware]

[edit on 31/7/10 by awake_and_aware]

reply to post by ChickenPie


Original post by adjensen:

What on Earth makes you even begin to believe that you hold some sort of moral high ground?

Indeed, especially when he believes his rationality and morality are merely a byproduct of naturalistic events that hold no intrinsic value.

Bull, you don't even understand the concept of morality. Don't you understand that some tribes see it morality right to cannibalize? There is no right or wrong, just a percieved right and wrong. Don't you understand that morality is subject to social conformity and adherence. Empathy is more than enough to know not to kill (or steal etc.), especially when we look what good killing has done in the past, what suffering.

Please stop talking nonsense.

PS. I never claimed to have any moral high ground, as i've explained morality is subject to your own belief system, whether that be the bible, the quran, or secular and democratic law, we all conform to a belief system and an adherence to the agreed rules, yours happens to be a pre-medievil scripture.

I happen to have my own independant moral system where i reason and think of action and consequence (and a sprinkle of human compassion), thats why i might not agree with the law, or christianity.


[edit on 31/7/10 by awake_and_aware]

reply to post by awake_and_aware


Let's run through them, since you're so quick to back peddle.

if you demontrate you're socially moral and understanding person, i would respect and comend you

Your own words, saying that your default perspective is to disrespect others, until they prove themselves worthy of being treated with respect.

What's better is i would never inpose that kind of thing on a child, i would let them think for themselves, and teach themvalues of empathy and social understanding, and i will certainly fight that liberation of thought for our future generations.

Pretty clear that you think you know how "future generations" of children should be raised, regardless of what their parents think.

i'm just saying believing what they believe pre-disposes them to be intolerant, the essense of what is taught in that Religion.

"All religious people are pre-disposed to be intolerant." Prejudiced much?

i don't think Religion deserves respect, and for the very reason that itself is intolerant or causes people to be. I have no disrepect for humble people not professing to have some revealed wisdom of the creator of the universe because they read a book and label themselves a follower.

"I tolerate humble people who don't express a belief in faith" Bigoted much?

I only went back a couple pages in the thread and skimmed to pull these out. Would you like me to continue?

I dont realy try to convince athiest anymore that God is real. I use to, but whats the point. I believe they dont, there loss not mine.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by adjensen

 

All this due to the misplaced, unsupported and illogical belief that, in the absence of religion, people would no longer do evil.

What nonsense, who ever suggested that. You take away religion and you've still got poor people stealing and doing crime for example, Atheism isn't a resolution for crime, or whatever "evil" acts you're talking about whether it be rape, or anything else despicable. And i've never said that nor has any atheist.

Nice of you to speak for all atheists, but yes, I have heard atheists claim this.

If you don't claim it, that shows some promise, but then what is your point in wanting to end religion? Do you honestly believe that the good faith does is outweighed by the bad? Do you think that pedophiles will cease to exist if the Catholic Church was to go away? I don't, but I know that Catholic Charities would, a group that made about $2,000,000 in charitable gifts in 2009 in my state alone. How much did you give in 2009?

Do you think that those killed in the Inquisition will be somehow impacted by this? By your belief, they're worm food, gone 600 years. I don't think any of them will rot easier, knowing that you've avenged them.

Let's hear what your new world will do to replace the Salvation Army, Catholic Charities, UMCOR, Alcoholics Anonymous, and thousands of other faith-based organizations.

Originally posted by humbleseeker
I dont realy try to convince athiest anymore that God is real. I use to, but whats the point. I believe they dont, there loss not mine.

I don't want to convince them either. At this point, the best I appear to be able to hope for is to be treated with some minimal respect.

I would also suggest that, in light of an emerging tendency, the OP change the title of the thread to "Ask An Atheist Anything, and hope that there's an afterlife, because you'll be waiting an eternity for a final answer", lol.

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by awake_and_aware

 

Let's run through them, since you're so quick to back peddle.

if you demontrate you're socially moral and understanding person, i would respect and comend you

Your own words, saying that your default perspective is to disrespect others, until they prove themselves worthy of being treated with respect.

No! again, like you do quite often, twisting my words, I was merely suggesting how i would, personally, go about judging someone and what would cause me to respect someone as a human and what they are about, AND as i have said, how could i possibly do that on a forum. As for the subject of debate, i will treat you with respect until you treat me with disrespect.

I will treat any opposition to my argument with respect if it is handled with intelligence, reason and cohesion. i have a deep respect for the purpose of being polite in debate, I havn't judged you or said that ALL RELIGIOUS people are intolerant or evil. I havn't called you a bigot either.

Read my words carefully next time.

I don't believe any reason, me being an anti-theist, that i should have respect for religion when it causes MANY(not all) people to do and say irrational things without evidence for doing and saying thosae irrational things. Did i say i won't respect a christian, a jew, if he respects me and my childrens beliefs?

Now, back to the thread topic, more questions for us Atheists, this is becoming tiresome having to refute you and defend myself everytime you twist my words and make assumptions. Circular debate, its tired me out, so i'm off to bed, until next time.

Hopefully there'll be some more interesting questions when i return - looking forward to tradionaldrummer's responses.

[edit on 31/7/10 by awake_and_aware]

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by ChickenPie

 

Original post by adjensen:

What on Earth makes you even begin to believe that you hold some sort of moral high ground?

Indeed, especially when he believes his rationality and morality are merely a byproduct of naturalistic events that hold no intrinsic value.

Bull, you don't even understand the concept of morality.

Bull.

Don't you understand that some tribes see it morality right to cannibalize

Yup.

There is no right or wrong, just a percieved right and wrong.

Precisely... for you.

But I believe in God, so I do believe that objective right and wrong exists.

PS. I never claimed to have any moral high ground, as i've explained morality is subject to your own belief system, whether that be the bible, the quran, or secular and democratic law, we all conform to a belief system and an adherence to the agreed rules, yours happens to be a pre-medievil scripture.

So I can poke you in the eye with a pencil and call that "good?"

Good.

[edit on 31-7-2010 by ChickenPie]