Show us ONE, just one UFO pic or ANY evidence that can be proven as evidence of visitation.

a reply to: Sunraged

Well no matter what skeptics say I refuse to be of the " never can be " crowd there are way too many cases of police and military personnel seeing these craft, some reports in the 1950's of combined forces of police chasing UFO's over state lines and the descriptions show they weren't ANYTHING man could have made back then or even today with right angle turns hovering and playing cat and mouse and with the police cars then without any sound instantaneous acceleration to disappear.

Skeptics have plenty to say but unlike the witnesses who have videos and in some instances evidence of landing impressions from tons of weight on hard packed ground they the skeptics have NOTHING to show that UFO's don't exist nada zilch zero and I think that makes these hard core individuals all the more determined to try and prove their point ....... which is fine it's their right to try but I know from my own sightings that what I saw wasn't anything that was made by man and as many professionals that was at the National Press Club Disclosure Project in 2001 were witnesses to some incredible sightings I will side with the believers of this fact ..... UFO's are real. Carl

KnuckleDragger or whatever your name is 114 pages is too long.

Question: For my benefit and curiosity, are you religious?

This topic has been coming up lately it must be been swept under the rug I didn't know people were talking about the hoaxes so long ago

So in this 7 year thread has anyone been able to answer the OP’s question? People seem to just get angry when their beliefs are questioned.

Yep, this thread has been around a bit. The problem is there hasn't been any serious/real evidence available, there still isn't even though the evidence gets better all the time. The real problem is getting people to actually accept reality. Even the use of, shall we say "hard science" doesn't seem to make much of a dent on almost everybody, though I think it primarily because people don't want to accept this reality, and nobody wants to actually take the time to try to understand the science.

All that said;

There is some serious evidence to consider...and best of all, it comes from an old "abduction event" that nobody accepts as real. I'm speaking of the Betty and Barney Hill event from the early 1960's. Most try to dismiss it via Betty's psychology, and the fact that hypnotism was used. As "bad" as that all may sound there is a very narrow path to this story's vindication; and that is through a single bit of evidence that, again,. most try to dismiss and ignore.

That single and quite unique bit of evidence is the "star map" Betty drew after a post hypnotic suggestion. At first glance it might seem that just about any collection of a dozen or so dots on a sheet of paper could "match" anything, but, mathematically, that is not the case.

Mathematically, IF Betty's drawing actually had a good match to ANY collection of existing stars, that match would be virtually impossible, and difficult (time consuming) to find. Well Betty drew her map, and Ms. Fish interpreted it, and found what many think is a match. But, until now, nobody has gone to the trouble to actually verify IF there is a match, and how "good" is it.

I've been working on Betty's map for a while, and have found a wealth of undiscovered knowledge within her map, but, even I hadn't done all the math.

So, yesterday, I got off my lazy a$$ and went out and found the appropriate computer vision software library. I built an application that could compare Betty's map to a reconstruction of stellar data based on the Hipparcos mission (modern astrometric data). The app was rather easy to put together, just hook a couple of images up and submit them to a "method" called "ExhaustiveTemplateMatching" in a library known as "AForge".

The method allowed me to specify a "similarity threshold", so I set it at 99%, meaning that any "valid" results had to be a 99% or better match to be returned.

A single match was found for Betty's map in the stars, the match's "similarity" was 99.1%. You can learn much more about this map and the match here. This page is interactive; if you mouse over a star it will give you more information, if you click on that star, still more info. There is also more information behind the links in the main menu.

It should be noted...the "landing page" I gave has the "image" used for the match (it was cleaned up a little...removed the lines).

a reply to: JayJay77

Not really from what I have been able to read. But short of something landing and communicating "take me to your leader. there will not be an answer to this thread. But there is a very interesting matter that occurred 8-27-1979, the Val Johnson Sheriff Deputy that collided with a UFO. There is a very interesting website that has all of the documentation for old cases and this one is listed..... that is the good news. The bad news is I cannot find that website now. This website has photos and reports of this incident, which included skid marks and vehicle damage. Ask any vehicle crash expert about the skid marks and damage and they will say there is no match and you cannot get the skid marks seen without some kind of external force. And the most interesting thing I saw in the photos, the bend in the two radio antennas is at the same height. I also have personal experience in trying to bend those antenna, it is not easy

If anybody has the URL for the website that has reports for decades of UFO incidents, including this one I would appreciate it if you could pass it along. I really would like to dig further into the facts and evidence on file for this case. It is not an actual photo of a UFO, but it does contain some really good physical evidence.

a reply to: AlFeynman

This one, perhaps?

www.ufocasebook.com...

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

This is the one, thank you! I told myself that I would be able to remember this URL, but that did not work out too well. growing old really does not suck like many say, I love it, but memory is not what it use to be. I have now booked marked it and will download the files for Johnson. Maybe being a member of ATS will motivate me to look deeper into this incident now.

Here ya go

thumb]re5bf903b7.jpg[/thumb

Ok here you go!

Here's a purported ET humanoid for the ATS archive: Titled - Space Alien Hiding Behind Fossil Rock

www.youtube.com...





I am fooftr27 that photographed "it" during the summer of 1972 at Calvert Cliffs, Maryland; and posted the picture on YouTube.

originally posted by: AlFeynman
a reply to: JayJay77

JayJay77:
So in this 7 year thread has anyone been able to answer the OP’s question? People seem to just get angry when their beliefs are questioned.

Not really from what I have been able to read.

Yep, this thread has been around a bit. The problem is there hasn't been any serious/real evidence available, there still isn't even though the evidence gets better all the time. The real problem is getting people to actually accept reality. Even the use of, shall we say "hard science" doesn't seem to make much of a dent on almost everybody, though I think it is primarily because people don't want to accept this reality, and nobody wants to actually take the time to try to understand the science.

As for "answering" the OPs question; I think I've done that, in an easily verifiable manner.

originally posted by: james1947

originally posted by: AlFeynman
a reply to: JayJay77

JayJay77:
So in this 7 year thread has anyone been able to answer the OP’s question? People seem to just get angry when their beliefs are questioned.

Not really from what I have been able to read.

Yep, this thread has been around a bit. The problem is there hasn't been any serious/real evidence available, there still isn't even though the evidence gets better all the time. The real problem is getting people to actually accept reality. Even the use of, shall we say "hard science" doesn't seem to make much of a dent on almost everybody, though I think it is primarily because people don't want to accept this reality, and nobody wants to actually take the time to try to understand the science.

As for "answering" the OPs question; I think I've done that, in an easily verifiable manner.

humor me. what are your three best pieces of evidence to prove UFOs are real?

a reply to: ElGoobero
Some UFOs are real, but the thread is asking about "visitation".

Here's a good example of a real UFO, which some people seem to want to believe is ET, but there's really no reason to assume it's ET, in fact some people think they know what was seen and that it has an earthly origin, so is not evidence of "visitation".

The Edge of Reality - Updated Report on the Illinois Police UFO case, January 5th, 2000.

Anybody's list of three "best evidence" cases is probably going to contain cases just as ambiguous as that case, and people will interpret the available evidence according to their own bias, which means in some cases misinterpreting the evidence.

The problem is we have never progressed from the human aspect of the whole alien phenomena. We have pictures, eye witnesses and many conspiracies, and that is about it. The problem is with each is there is not actually any aliens involved..it is all human perspective.

a reply to: ElGoobero

Interesting question. For me, in this case evidence is not associated with science, it is associated with an investigation. I have to agree with something that was previously said, that is Ufology is not a science. The definition is the study of UFOs but right now as far as we know there is no "studying" going on because there are no UFOs for any of us to go touch, see and study. And, the 'U' means Unidentified so we cannot study what we do not know.

All we can do right now is investigate incidents that come before us and use the facts here for a greater overall investigation regarding reality. And, evidence and the manner it is presented can have different weight for different people. The example, "if it doesn't fit you must acquit."

In other words, all of the evidence in the world can be presented to some people and it will not change their minds. Everybody has different levels, thresholds and acceptance of evidence.

To me, I think the evidence is overwhelming that there is extra-terrestrial intelligence out there and therefore, UTAVs (my own interpretation "Unknown Type of Aerial Vehicle.")

originally posted by: ElGoobero

originally posted by: james1947

originally posted by: AlFeynman
a reply to: JayJay77

JayJay77:
So in this 7 year thread has anyone been able to answer the OP’s question? People seem to just get angry when their beliefs are questioned.

Not really from what I have been able to read.

Yep, this thread has been around a bit. The problem is there hasn't been any serious/real evidence available, there still isn't even though the evidence gets better all the time. The real problem is getting people to actually accept reality. Even the use of, shall we say "hard science" doesn't seem to make much of a dent on almost everybody, though I think it is primarily because people don't want to accept this reality, and nobody wants to actually take the time to try to understand the science.

As for "answering" the OPs question; I think I've done that, in an easily verifiable manner.

humor me. what are your three best pieces of evidence to prove UFOs are real?

Sure look here.

This is an interactive page; mouse over stars for info, click for more. Follow links in main menu (extraterrestrials->zeta reticuli->?)

The "revelation" above is in reference to me running a computer template matching algorithm and finding a 99.1% match between Betty Hill's "star map" and real world stars when viewed from a specific point in space some 122 light years from here.

So there it is...

a reply to: james1947

Huh? This is not evidence of anything.

a reply to: AlFeynman

What “evidence” are you referring to? 7 years later still nothing.

originally posted by: JayJay77
a reply to: james1947

Huh? This is not evidence of anything.

Really?!? Care to explain?

What you have probably not read is an analysis of a scrap of paper with a "star map" that Betty Hill drew after her experience. That scrap of paper contained an array of "stars" that was supposed to be a map of the Zeta Reticuli Gray's trade and exploration routes.

My analysis shows that Betty's map is actually a "view" on local stars from a point 122 light years away. Betty's map also contained stars that were unknown at the time she drew the map, and were not discovered until the early 1990's.

My analysis shows that Betty's map is in fact an artifact of alien visitation and abduction, and I show this with a high degree of (mathematical) confidence.

So...IF you are going to say this is not evidence, you will have to show how it is not evidence.