There has to be a law that creates something from nothing (Or seeminly nothing)

Hello all-

So I was thinking of this today. There has to be a law that creates something from nothing (or seeminly nothing), and a multiplier law that adds new free mass to existing matter through some free process. I do believe in "God," but I also feel that god has a beginning like everything in our universe.


There must have been a point in our creation where matter just became, matter. What I mean is, there must have been a point when matter was 0 and then just became 1. Or, maybe it started at -1 and made its way to 0 and then 1. Everything is made of math and calculations so there must be a formula out there that can create something from nothing. Everything in our lives and in the universe have a starting and an ending point, how can we think the universe and or "God" was made any differently?

Maybe the explanation that "God" has always been is like our own births. If we were not told how we came into this world and we were alone on this planet how would we know how we were created? How would we know how old we are, how long our lives are? Maybe we created ourselves from nothing?

Do you feel the same, or do you think this is just crazy talk? Please let me know one way or the other. Thanks..

[edit on 7-7-2010 by Trudge]

The Federal Reserve has been creating something from Nothing for almost 100 years.

Zero point technologies (over unity) have been suppressed by this same group, who also control the oil companies, and the media.

Its rabid corporatism that keeps people subservient to the corporations.

reply to post by Trudge


Energy and matter are interchangeable, one can be turned into the other.

So far as I'm aware, the Big Bang is still the accepted notion of the beginning of the current state of things, a vast amount of energy the loosed the Universe. So, while matter may have equaled zero at one point, energy did not, so you didn't have something from nothing.

The question of where that energy came from, of course, is unknown. But it's impossible to do the science that has it coming from nothing. If it came from God (as I believe,) it's coming from something, God. If it truly just popped into existence with nothing as its origins, it happened under laws of physics that are no longer valid.

What your saying is untrue in terms of something from nothing.

Nothing always existed and that's something.

What people fail to understand because of our indoctrination into mathematical concepts is the infinite.

We need time and numbers to differentiate one thing from the next when in reality it is all infinite and whole.

There never was a beginning, and there never will be an end, there just is.

The laws of physics, science, math, etcetera are all a joke at the most basic level because it is an attempt to seperate and compartmentalize the infinite.

[edit on 7-7-2010 by ISHAMAGI]

reply to post by Trudge


Thanks for the thread! Very interesting!

Perhaps this video will be interesting to you:



(click the youtube link if the video doesn't work...)

It speaks how our universe may have formed through sub-atomic quantum fluctuations.

Kind regards

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by Trudge

 

Energy and matter are interchangeable, one can be turned into the other.

So far as I'm aware, the Big Bang is still the accepted notion of the beginning of the current state of things, a vast amount of energy the loosed the Universe. So, while matter may have equaled zero at one point, energy did not, so you didn't have something from nothing.

The question of where that energy came from, of course, is unknown. But it's impossible to do the science that has it coming from nothing. If it came from God (as I believe,) it's coming from something, God. If it truly just popped into existence with nothing as its origins, it happened under laws of physics that are no longer valid.

what if anti-matter was -1 for example and it got multiplied by another ani-matter to create matter and that anti-matter is the beginning of "nothing" to create something which is matter. But because you are adding two or maybe even more negatives to equal one positive the matter is smaller than the antimatter thus giving us our universe and empty space.

Originally posted by ISHAMAGI
What your saying is untrue in terms of something from nothing.

Nothing always existed and that's something.

What people fail to understand because of our indoctrination into mathematical concepts is the infinite.

We need time and numbers to differentiate one thing from the next when in reality it is all infinite and whole.

There never was a beginning, and there never will be an end, there just is.

The laws of physics, science, math, etcetera are all a joke at the most basic level because it is an attempt to seperate and compartmentalize the infinite.

[edit on 7-7-2010 by ISHAMAGI]

Yes, I agree that nothing is something. I guess when I say "nothing" i'm talking about no matter in the universe. What I mean by -1, 0, and 1 is that -1 can go negative an infinite number of times just as 1 can go in an infinite number of times, zero is the separation of the two infinites (the middle ballance). So "something" created the matter/energy so there must be a law that creates matter from "nothing" if you will.

reply to post by Hitotsumami


Hi Hitotsumami-

Thank you for your reply. Do you happen to have any video that isn't on YouTube? I can't watch YouTube videos at work..

Originally posted by Trudge

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by Trudge

 

Energy and matter are interchangeable, one can be turned into the other.

So far as I'm aware, the Big Bang is still the accepted notion of the beginning of the current state of things, a vast amount of energy the loosed the Universe. So, while matter may have equaled zero at one point, energy did not, so you didn't have something from nothing.

The question of where that energy came from, of course, is unknown. But it's impossible to do the science that has it coming from nothing. If it came from God (as I believe,) it's coming from something, God. If it truly just popped into existence with nothing as its origins, it happened under laws of physics that are no longer valid.

what if anti-matter was -1 for example and it got multiplied by another ani-matter to create matter and that anti-matter is the beginning of "nothing" to create something which is matter. But because you are adding two or maybe even more negatives to equal one positive the matter is smaller than the antimatter thus giving us our universe and empty space.

Both you and Hitotsumami aren't creating something from nothing, you're creating something from something different (anti-matter, sub-atomic particles.) Either could be considered as the origins of the initial energy, but then where did that stuff come from, and you're back to the same issue.

Going from nothing, absolutely, positively nothing -- subatomic, God, or otherwise -- isn't something that we can work out with the currently active laws of physics. You can speculate, but I suspect that even speculation would have some minute element of substance in it.

I've often wondered about the whole "big bang" theory. Where did the matter for the big bang come from? It had to have been something before it banged no?

I've heard the theory that the universe is like a balloon. Ever expanding and contracting. It was even put that the "big bang" could have happened several times already. But it still doesn't answer the question of, where did it come from.

It boggles my mind. Then again, we as human beings certainly do not have all the answers. I always crack up when I see things like "entire universe mapped" or things like that. If we can not pinpoint where the universe begins or ends, how could someone make a statement like that? In all honesty humans probably understand maybe 0.05% of the workings of the universe.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Trudge

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by Trudge

 

Energy and matter are interchangeable, one can be turned into the other.

So far as I'm aware, the Big Bang is still the accepted notion of the beginning of the current state of things, a vast amount of energy the loosed the Universe. So, while matter may have equaled zero at one point, energy did not, so you didn't have something from nothing.

The question of where that energy came from, of course, is unknown. But it's impossible to do the science that has it coming from nothing. If it came from God (as I believe,) it's coming from something, God. If it truly just popped into existence with nothing as its origins, it happened under laws of physics that are no longer valid.

what if anti-matter was -1 for example and it got multiplied by another ani-matter to create matter and that anti-matter is the beginning of "nothing" to create something which is matter. But because you are adding two or maybe even more negatives to equal one positive the matter is smaller than the antimatter thus giving us our universe and empty space.

Both you and Hitotsumami aren't creating something from nothing, you're creating something from something different (anti-matter, sub-atomic particles.) Either could be considered as the origins of the initial energy, but then where did that stuff come from, and you're back to the same issue.

Going from nothing, absolutely, positively nothing -- subatomic, God, or otherwise -- isn't something that we can work out with the currently active laws of physics. You can speculate, but I suspect that even speculation would have some minute element of substance in it.

SOMETHING must have always been, be it the universe, anti matter, or God, whatever you choose, as we really don't know.

reply to post by Trudge


I'm afraid I don't have any other links to the video, other than youtube. Sorry!

reply to post by adjensen


Thanks for the response! I know that it doesn't explain original 'energy'. As far as science knows at the current time, the answer to that question is not known. All we can do is guess.

I guess I can make a guess. Maybe our the quantum fluctuations that created our universe is caused from our 3rd dimension interacting with surrounding dimensions. I honestly don't know, and have no way to prove it.

Kind regards

reply to post by Trudge

maybe it started at -1 and made its way to 0 and then 1

Or maybe it started at zero and became 1 and -1.

Think about it.

Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by Trudge

 

maybe it started at -1 and made its way to 0 and then 1

Or maybe it started at zero and became 1 and -1.

Think about it.

Maybe what started at zero? Zero what? And how does "zero" become "one" and "negative one"?

TANSTAAFL. Whether at the diner or in thermodynamics, you can't get something from nothing. At least under the laws of physics of the current Universe. Even acknowledging that we don't understand even a fraction of said laws, there's no instance that one can even imagine that could do it.

Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by Trudge

 

maybe it started at -1 and made its way to 0 and then 1

Or maybe it started at zero and became 1 and -1.

Think about it.

yes very true! Maybe 0 is the starting point that goes in all directions. If 0 is also the starting place then all living creatures are also a 0 in a direct relationship. Meaning 0 being the starting point (birth or present), as we live our lives the past becomes the -1 and the future becomes the 1 but we are always the 0.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by Trudge

 

maybe it started at -1 and made its way to 0 and then 1

Or maybe it started at zero and became 1 and -1.

Think about it.

Maybe what started at zero? Zero what? And how does "zero" become "one" and "negative one"?

TANSTAAFL. Whether at the diner or in thermodynamics, you can't get something from nothing. At least under the laws of physics of the current Universe. Even acknowledging that we don't understand even a fraction of said laws, there's no instance that one can even imagine that could do it.

I look at zero as not as "nothing" but as a state between 1 and -1. So even 0 looks like it is nothing it really is something.

reply to post by adjensen

how does "zero" become "one" and "negative one"?

1 - 1 = 0

you can't get something from nothing

I just gave you one possible way the universe could be created without violating that.

At least under the laws of physics of the current Universe.

Even if true, that's completely irrelevant. We're discussing the creation of universes. Assuming that the laws that apply within a universe must necessarily also apply to the conditions that exist prior/outside of that universe is extremely arbitrary.

Originally posted by Trudge

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by Trudge

 

maybe it started at -1 and made its way to 0 and then 1

Or maybe it started at zero and became 1 and -1.

Think about it.

Maybe what started at zero? Zero what? And how does "zero" become "one" and "negative one"?

TANSTAAFL. Whether at the diner or in thermodynamics, you can't get something from nothing. At least under the laws of physics of the current Universe. Even acknowledging that we don't understand even a fraction of said laws, there's no instance that one can even imagine that could do it.

I look at zero as not as "nothing" but as a state between 1 and -1. So even 0 looks like it is nothing it really is something.

Then your original post (and the thread title) are erroneous. There does not have to be a law that creates something from nothing, because you're starting with something.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Trudge

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by Trudge

 

maybe it started at -1 and made its way to 0 and then 1

Or maybe it started at zero and became 1 and -1.

Think about it.

Maybe what started at zero? Zero what? And how does "zero" become "one" and "negative one"?

TANSTAAFL. Whether at the diner or in thermodynamics, you can't get something from nothing. At least under the laws of physics of the current Universe. Even acknowledging that we don't understand even a fraction of said laws, there's no instance that one can even imagine that could do it.

I look at zero as not as "nothing" but as a state between 1 and -1. So even 0 looks like it is nothing it really is something.

Then your original post (and the thread title) are erroneous. There does not have to be a law that creates something from nothing, because you're starting with something.

I changed the title because you are right, zero is not nothing.