Definite Proof: (The) God (of the Bibles) DOESN’T EXIST! Part2

There's one thing you should also question. Why are people so eager to destroy the belief of God? Is there also a faction out to disprove the muslum version of their god? Or is it just a rush to disprove the Christion version of God?
Can't remember where I read it, but a quote went some thing like. " The best way to defeat a people is to take away their beliefs and they'll be easer to control."

Originally posted by Chance321
There's one thing you should also question. Why are people so eager to destroy the belief of God? Is there also a faction out to disprove the muslum version of their god? Or is it just a rush to disprove the Christion version of God?
Can't remember where I read it, but a quote went some thing like. " The best way to defeat a people is to take away their beliefs and they'll be easer to control."

No, the best way to defeat/control people is to "give" them beliefs that suit your goal.
Also, as long as they believe anything, they cant get closer to any "truth".
Belief is the opposite of knowledge as it's equal to ignorance.
In fact, it's even worse as someone who believes (dont KNOW) is an ignorant pretending or believing to know. So, they wont even try to learn as they think they already have THE truth...
Why cant we simply admitt that we dont know, is it so damaging to our vanity.
Why do we have to base our life on BELIEFS??? Instead of truly trying to learn?
Well, because it's easier of course.
So, please, dont blame your lazyness, and lack of will on me.

I'm not here to destroy only nor to "defeat" you. I'm here to show you that your house is "ill-built" and the first step to make a better one is to destruct this one. That's only THE FIRST STEP, not the goal.
I know that's difficult to admitt that this (your) construction is flawed. That's your house after all, do you really need to rebuild it?
Plus it will take time and effort to build a new one. Also, you will feel more vulnerable before to change... But the new one would be so much better, that it will change your life, for good..

[edit on 2-7-2010 by Project_USA]

reply to post by Project_USA



sorry, misquoted...
second line.



[edit on 2-7-2010 by Project_USA]

[edit on 2-7-2010 by Project_USA]

reply to post by Project_USA

Are you kidding?!

No.

No faither see the Bible as mythology. IMO, to think that would really end all religious conflict as there wouldnt be any affect invested in these texts and their truthfulness (or not). Also, these texts wouldnt be the ones to decide of the principles presiding the life of dozens of millions of people.

I am a "faither" and I see the Bible as mythology. My uncle was Catholic priest and he is the one who pointed out the similarities between the Bible and other mythologies to me. Christ had a few moments of doubt and faith told in the New Testament, and the message in that is fairly clear. During times of adversity, our faith will be challenged.

As to all this blather of ending all religious conflicts, you seemed to have departed from a discussion with me, and began arguing some other posters point, as I made no mention at all of ending religious conflict, let alone all religious conflict.

It is interesting to watch you entrench yourself in your dogma.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by Project_USA

 

Are you kidding?!

No.

No faither see the Bible as mythology. IMO, to think that would really end all religious conflict as there wouldnt be any affect invested in these texts and their truthfulness (or not). Also, these texts wouldnt be the ones to decide of the principles presiding the life of dozens of millions of people.

I am a "faither" and I see the Bible as mythology. My uncle was Catholic priest and he is the one who pointed out the similarities between the Bible and other mythologies to me. Christ had a few moments of doubt and faith told in the New Testament, and the message in that is fairly clear. During times of adversity, our faith will be challenged.

As to all this blather of ending all religious conflicts, you seemed to have departed from a discussion with me, and began arguing some other posters point, as I made no mention at all of ending religious conflict, let alone all religious conflict.

It is interesting to watch you entrench yourself in your dogma.

Is logical thinking called dogma nowadays?

So, for you, the Bibles is not based on facts, that's simply compilation of analogies/paraboles... Good stories to illustrate the conflicts governing our mind or between us people. An help for listing appropriate behaviors/morals/ethics...

Even for the concept of God himself? Is he ALAKAP in your opinion?
Because that's the subject of my thread. That and trying to suggest that the concept of faith itself is stupid.
Really, I'm curious to TRY to understand how someone can still believe in an idea/concept that he KNOWS to be a fantasy/myth...

In regard to the end of religion wars, well, it's not because you dont speak of something that I cant either. If you read my post you'll understand why... That is, if you're not too deeply entreched in your dogma of course.

[edit on 3-7-2010 by Project_USA]

Originally posted by Chance321
Why are people so eager to destroy the belief of God? Is there also a faction out to disprove the muslum version of their god? Or is it just a rush to disprove the Christion version of God?

Interesting... there is definitely an organized anti-God-of-the-bible surge. There seems to be a lot of time, effort and MONEY going into disproving the existence of the God in the bible… especially the Christ.

I’ve seen countless threads dedicated to this task. It can’t simply be the mere random obsession of some individuals who spend all their time at this…. It’s very organized, coordinated, deliberate and definitely has financial backing.

I could understand people investing time and money to get other people to leave their church or religion to join a different church or religion, but to spend time and money to get people to simply stop believing in the God of the bible… this coordinated effort strongly suggest an element of fear… there are powers that fear those who believe in the God of the bible… so much that they are willing to spend a lot of time and money for no other reason except to convince people not to believe in this particular God.

reply to post by Project_USA


Logical thinkers do not make blanket statements such as "no faither see the bible as mythology". Logical thinkers do not begin ranting about unrelated topics when debating a point about mythology. Simply declaring yourself a "logical thinker" doesn't make it so. Logic follows a strict set of rules you seem to know nothing about.

So, for you, the Bibles is not based on facts, that's simply compilation of analogies/paraboles... Good stories to illustrate the conflicts governing our mind or between us people. An help for listing appropriate behaviors/morals/ethics...

Logical thinkers do not put words into other peoples mouth, and instead deal with what was actually said.

Even for the concept of God himself? Is he ALAKAP in your opinion?

Logical thinkers do not communicate in acronyms, and particularly do not assume those they are communicating with even know what this lazy form of communication means.

Because that's the subject of my thread. That and trying to suggest that the concept of faith itself is stupid.

Logical thinkers do not waste their times arguing the validity of faith. Logical thinkers are smart enough to know that faith is a universal characteristic of people, whether it be religious or scientific. The scientist has as much faith in their theories as religious people do in their gods.

Really, I'm curious to TRY to understand how someone can still believe in an idea/concept that he KNOWS to be a fantasy/myth...

Logical thinkers do not fall prey to double speak, and if you were a logical thinker you would understand that the word myth has been bastardized in modern times to mean falsehood, but since time immemorial myths have meant something else entirely. Further, a spiritual person need not believe in the historical accuracy of Jesus of Nazareth in order to understand the message.

In regard to the end of religion wars, well, it's not because you dont speak of something that I cant either. If you read my post you'll understand why... That is, if you're not too deeply entreched in your dogma of course.

A logical thinker does not stray off topic. If you want to address the end of religion wars, by all means do so, but when you do so in the same paragraph that addresses my points, you hardly come off as a logical thinker, and certainly do not come off as one who understands the rules of grammar, syntax, and effective writing.

You are every bit as dogmatic as those you seek to take to task. You are far less interested in truth than you are simply attacking that which you disagree with.

I just look at it this way..If i force my son to go to a sport summer camp instead of letting him at home play videogames.
If i hit my son when he stole something instead of just telling him that isnt good.

He will say that i dont love him now. But one day he will know that the harder education i gave him was for his own good.

Because indeed that one summer might be hell for him compared to staying at home. But afterward when he gets older and sees the kids that were allowed to stay at home have no backbone and getting fat. He will thank his old man.

Indeed hitting your child doesnt make him think i love him. But again afterward when he sees the children that just got told "Silly you dont steal again" Become thiefs and end up in jail or worse. He will thank me for teaching him the right values

Likewise for Job however it is true he lost everything and went through hell. But when you get Eternity of happyness how do you compare to that? Also he got everything back and more in this life.

Mark 10:28-31: Then Peter began to say to Him, "See, we have left all and followed You." So Jesus answered and said, "Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel's, who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time--houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions--and in the age to come, eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”

Also we must not forget, G-d tested job in this way, because he knew job would not forsake him. He will not let us be tempted beyond our ability because after all he wants us to live!

1 Corinthians 10:13 (King James Version)

13There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

he wants us to live :

John 10:10 (King James Version)

10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

more abundantly see eternally!!!

Originally posted by Project_USA

Originally posted by Chance321
There's one thing you should also question. Why are people so eager to destroy the belief of God? Is there also a faction out to disprove the muslum version of their god? Or is it just a rush to disprove the Christion version of God?
Can't remember where I read it, but a quote went some thing like. " The best way to defeat a people is to take away their beliefs and they'll be easer to control."

No, the best way to defeat/control people is to "give" them beliefs that suit your goal.
Also, as long as they believe anything, they cant get closer to any "truth".
Belief is the opposite of knowledge as it's equal to ignorance.
In fact, it's even worse as someone who believes (dont KNOW) is an ignorant pretending or believing to know. So, they wont even try to learn as they think they already have THE truth...
Why cant we simply admitt that we dont know, is it so damaging to our vanity.
Why do we have to base our life on BELIEFS??? Instead of truly trying to learn?
Well, because it's easier of course.
So, please, dont blame your lazyness, and lack of will on me.

I'm not here to destroy only nor to "defeat" you. I'm here to show you that your house is "ill-built" and the first step to make a better one is to destruct this one. That's only THE FIRST STEP, not the goal.
I know that's difficult to admitt that this (your) construction is flawed. That's your house after all, do you really need to rebuild it?
Plus it will take time and effort to build a new one. Also, you will feel more vulnerable before to change... But the new one would be so much better, that it will change your life, for good..

[edit on 2-7-2010 by Project_USA]

We as people need "Beliefs" it's what makes us, us. Some people believe in God, some don't, that's their belief. Without our beliefs were nothing, empty shells walking around doing the bidding of whom ever is in charge. When times are tough you have your beliefs weither it's God, a tree, what ever to grasp onto.
I'm not a big person on God, but I'll not look down on someone because they do or don't.
But you failed to answer my question of are they trying to tear down the Christion God only or are they going after other religious Gods? And if it's just the Christion God then why?

Originally posted by soleprobe

Originally posted by Chance321
Why are people so eager to destroy the belief of God? Is there also a faction out to disprove the muslum version of their god? Or is it just a rush to disprove the Christion version of God?

Interesting... there is definitely an organized anti-God-of-the-bible surge. There seems to be a lot of time, effort and MONEY going into disproving the existence of the God in the bible… especially the Christ.

I’ve seen countless threads dedicated to this task. It can’t simply be the mere random obsession of some individuals who spend all their time at this…. It’s very organized, coordinated, deliberate and definitely has financial backing.

I could understand people investing time and money to get other people to leave their church or religion to join a different church or religion, but to spend time and money to get people to simply stop believing in the God of the bible… this coordinated effort strongly suggest an element of fear… there are powers that fear those who believe in the God of the bible… so much that they are willing to spend a lot of time and money for no other reason except to convince people not to believe in this particular God.

That's what I'm having a hard time understanding. There seems to be a major push to get people away from God. Why? Like I said in another post, I'm not a "big" believer in God but I do believe in my own way. You said it better then I did. The thing is though, "if" God doesn't exist then so what? Why does it bother others on if you or I do? No, there's something else going on, something I don't want any part of.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by Project_USA

Logical thinkers do not communicate in acronyms, and particularly do not assume those they are communicating with even know what this lazy form of communication means.

If you dont know what I mean by ALAKAP, you didnt even read my thread.
Thank you for decridibilizing yourself.

Logical thinkers do not waste their times arguing the validity of faith. Logical thinkers are smart enough to know that faith is a universal characteristic of people, whether it be religious or scientific. The scientist has as much faith in their theories as religious people do in their gods.

So you imply that you're a logical thinker because you're "smart enough to know that faith is a universal characteristic of people".

There are so many wrongs with this sentence that I would just ask you:
Can you prove it?
Then: Can people stop basing their life on beliefs/faith without proof? Do you know that MAN cannot evolve (by reasoning more and believing.having faith less?

Now my favorite part of it: "whether it be religious or scientific. The scientist has as much faith in their theories as religious people do in their gods"

"Scientific faith??!!" That's what we call an OXYMORON.
A (true) scientist CANNOT have faith in his theory as he tries to demonstrate its LOGIC/scientific validity.
Nor does it matter if he believes (you have to realize we would need to argue on semantics about the meaning/definition of belief?) in his theory or not, what matters is if he can PROVE IT!

Logical thinkers do not fall prey to double speak, and if you were a logical thinker you would understand that the word myth has been bastardized in modern times to mean falsehood, but since time immemorial myths have meant something else entirely. Further, a spiritual person need not believe in the historical accuracy of Jesus of Nazareth in order to understand the message.

You still fail to give YOUR definition of "myth", therefore this last statement is meaningless.

A logical thinker does not stray off topic.

Well said! Please apply that reasoning to yourself.
And try to read the thread... Better if you want to argue about it.
Just saying...

[edit on 3-7-2010 by Project_USA]

Originally posted by omarsharif

I just look at it this way..If i force my son to go to a sport summer camp instead of letting him at home play videogames.
If i hit my son when he stole something instead of just telling him that isnt good.

He will say that i dont love him now. But one day he will know that the harder education i gave him was for his own good.

I dont doubt that you try to be a good father/man... But you are NOT All-loving as the God of the Bibles is supposed to be.

Is violence, love? or even part of love?
If yes violence can be justified then? Do you realize the implications? Try...

Violence is NEVER done for the good of the victim!!!
Violence comes from your own frustration. You can be firm, yet non-violent.
You choose to make your son OBEY, through FEAR (of another slap or of pain) and NOT through explanation/understanding.

It takes more time, more patience but it's more gratifying... And less painful for your son.

Resort to violence only proves lazyness (you could explain him why it's bad but it would take more time), anger (opposite of love), or lack of intelect (as may be you dont have the mental capacity to give a reason why not to steal, other than 'it's wrong because God said so).

What I mean is, what you think you achieve through violenece is just superficial as when the fear will be remove, or when you wont be there to punish him, he will steal.
Yeah, one of the reason of the existence of the concept of God is to counter that... God is ALWAYS WATCHING!
Convenient.

Also, a true God wouldnt ask OBEDIENCE of you, He will give you true UNDERSTANDING not bans.

Likewise for Job however it is true he lost everything and went through hell. But when you get Eternity of happyness how do you compare to that? Also he got everything back and more in this life.

Well, the belief of a soul is very helpful...

But for job, Why call that A TEST if He knows the result before Hand?
Is this suffering/killings all and only for Lucifer's benefit??

So God can kill to send to Heaven (Job's family) then?
Why not kill Job, then???
Is that what He does with babies? Why even let us live and suffer then?
What I wrote in my discussion is still valid.

Or did the writers of the Bibles create a scene (Job test) for OUR (us READERS) benefit??!
This is nothing else... Maybe?..

[edit on 3-7-2010 by Project_USA]

Originally posted by Chance321
That's what I'm having a hard time understanding. There seems to be a major push to get people away from God. Why? Like I said in another post, I'm not a "big" believer in God but I do believe in my own way. You said it better then I did. The thing is though, "if" God doesn't exist then so what? Why does it bother others on if you or I do? No, there's something else going on, something I don't want any part of.

Yes... in fact... their odd behavior towards this particular God of the bible and religion, all the time and investment they put into merely disproving it without offering much of an alternative except a dark nothingness….

And as you say they certainly don’t invest this much effort into disproving other gods or religious books and beliefs… This approach I would think should backfire… If they’re gonna invest so much into merely getting people to abandon their belief in the God of the bible it must be because they fear the power that it gives those who believe in such a God… otherwise they would simply ignore it like they do most of the other religions and move along.

This should give a clear signal to those who are sitting on the fence and have become familiar with the deceptive tactics of TPTB to perhaps take a serious look into this “God of the bible”.

We as people need "Beliefs" it's what makes us, us. Some people believe in God, some don't, that's their belief. Without our beliefs were nothing, empty shells walking around doing the bidding of whom ever is in charge. When times are tough you have your beliefs weither it's God, a tree, what ever to grasp onto.
I'm not a big person on God, but I'll not look down on someone because they do or don't.
But you failed to answer my question of are they trying to tear down the Christion God only or are they going after other religious Gods? And if it's just the Christion God then why?

In your sentences, change the word "beliefs" by "knowledge" and you will start to understand what I mean.

For me BELIEF is different from knowledge, of course, but also from hypothesis.

If you replace beliefs by hypothesis, I will agree with you 100%.
You could think it's just semantics but words have a meaning and it's important.

A belief doesnt need reasoning to be thought or expressed, an hypothesis does.

That's make all the difference.

ALL I WANT is for people to be less intelectually lazy thus gullible and delusional, to think more... And I think there will be less wrongs in this world...
THAT IS MY WHOLE POINT.
I dont target one religion in particular. But I use 3 as examples, that's all.

I have nothing against GOD (if he exists), I have a problem with the (concept of the) Bibles.

I hope it's clear for everyone now.

[edit on 3-7-2010 by Project_USA]

reply to post by Project_USA


Great... now get on with your life cause it's the only one you've got and ya aint got too much time left

[edit on 3-7-2010 by soleprobe]

reply to post by Project_USA

If you dont know what I mean by ALAKAP, you didnt even read my thread. Thank you for decridibilizing yourself.

Oh I read your thread, as laborious and tedious as it was, and if you think I should have to go back and re-read your posts simply to know what the acronym you are using actually means, just because you are too lazy to actually spell it out in a formal way, only demonstrates just how adverse you are to logic.

Logic is a formal kind of reasoning where the validity of an argument is held by its logical form and not by its content, and expanding content in an attempt to make it appear as if analysis is being given is hardly logic. You have used neither informal logic, and certainly not formal logic to make your arguments, and those arguments are based upon presumptions which are largely based in ignorance. Your smug dismissal above only demonstrates your inability to use logic, and your "reasoning" reads more as delusional than it does a sound reason.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by Project_USA

 

If you dont know what I mean by ALAKAP, you didnt even read my thread. Thank you for decridibilizing yourself.

Oh I read your thread, as laborious and tedious as it was, and if you think I should have to go back and re-read your posts simply to know what the acronym you are using actually means, just because you are too lazy to actually spell it out in a formal way, only demonstrates just how adverse you are to logic.

Logic is a formal kind of reasoning where the validity of an argument is held by its logical form and not by its content, and expanding content in an attempt to make it appear as if analysis is being given is hardly logic. You have used neither informal logic, and certainly not formal logic to make your arguments, and those arguments are based upon presumptions which are largely based in ignorance. Your smug dismissal above only demonstrates your inability to use logic, and your "reasoning" reads more as delusional than it does a sound reason.

If you dont even remember (from reading my thread) that ALAKAP means:
All-Loving, All-Knowing, All-Powerful... That's some memory you have.

You never use acronyms? Pedant maybe?

As for the rest of your post: "where the validity of an argument is held by its logical form and not by its content"

Great... we dont care of what is actually being developed as an argument, we are only interested in the way it's presented.
You must be a Sophist:
"Any of a group of professional fifth-century b.c. Greek philosophers and teachers who speculated on theology, metaphysics, and the sciences, and who were later characterized by Plato as superficial manipulators of rhetoric and dialectic."
www.thefreedictionary.com...

Still NO arument on the CONTENT of my thread...
BTW (see another acronym... :@@, I'm still waiting for YOUR definition of mythology...
I suggest everyone read your posts (at least in this thread) and my replies...

Now we can understand the meaning of your avatar...
You're just a caricature of a philosophist. You give yourself up subconciously...
You use concepts that you dont even understand/master to show-off.
You're pretentious, arguing/attacking a lot... But have NOTHING to say.

You seem to use ATS as a mirror for self-gratification on the distorted image you have of yourself (the one of someone smart, knowledgeable, intelligent, superior?).
You can impress some people with your vocabulary and sentences that "sound good and smart/knowledgeable", But I prove that it's possible to use mundane words to explain (even complex) concept/ideas.

From our "discussion", it seems that you care less of sharing knowledge/theories than cited dictionnary in a inappropriate way and (try to) lecture people to pass yourself as intelligent.

Please, argue on the thread or leave...
One of the two would be the first smart thing you would have done since starting to "express yourself" here.

[edit on 4-7-2010 by Project_USA]

[edit on 4-7-2010 by Project_USA]

reply to post by Project_USA


I get that you are too damn lazy to simply look up the definition of mythology for your self and I simply supplying links to that definition will not change your ignorance. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. That said, here is some water:

www.thefreedictionary.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

www.merriam-webster.com...

As to "debating" your arguments, the premise is false. Thus, there is no reason to debate what follows. When a wise man argues with a fool, it is difficult to discern who is who.

reply to post by randyvs


There isn't proof of Gods existence either...

There is a books of short stories and parables - but that doesn't sound like proof to me.

I guess thats why people use 'faith' to explain the existence of god - you don't need faith when there is proof, its a personal thing, each persons 'god' is different because we are all different.

I don't believe in god per se...but I do believe that there is much we don't know or can't see.

www.abovetopsecret.com...&flagit=349701#



The above link is to a previous thread here on ATS called the TERRA PAPERS - The Secret History of Earth which members may be interested in having a look at, with an open mind. The Terra Papers resonate with me for some reason, probably the reason I'm on this site.

Link below is the direct link to the site containing the Index to the Papers.

www.freedomdomain.com...

The link below this is a link to an explanation in regards to Moses leading his people.

www.freedomdomain.com...

[edit on 5-7-2010 by kiwitina948]

[edit on 5-7-2010 by kiwitina948]