1.3 million unemployed won't get benefits restored

reply to post by brainwrek

Income redistribution is unconstitutional, yet that fact seems to conveniently fly right over your head.

All tax income is redistribution of wealth. EVERYTHING is redistribution of wealth. Businesses redistribute wealth. The greatest redistribution of wealth has happened in the last 10 years as the rich has gotten richer and the poor has become poorer. Right now, most of it is sitting at the top and a strong economy simply cannot function that way.

Wealth creates jobs, not government. Taking away that wealth harms the economy in ways that are too difficult for you to understand.

Demand creates jobs, not wealth, not government. Too difficult for me to understand? You seem to be the one who has the problem. The vast majority of people have to have enough INCOME to buy things. Just because someone is rich doesn't mean diddly. Most of what is done now by corporations is almost solely done to benefit stockholders. It's not in the best interest of this country or the people within it.

You sound like you have a serious case of wallet envy, and want to penalize anyone and everyone who has more than you.

You sound like you have a serious case of wallet envy...not me. You want to penalize anyone who has LESS. You just like to defend those who have more of it.....billionaires who could be taxed at 70 percent and still live in the lap of luxury.....many of whom have made their fortunes by outsourcing AMERICAN JOBS for a boost to their stocks.

What is it you're really advocating anyway? what is your stance on how to fix this f'n mess that is called our economy?

Remember tariffs? THAT'S CONSTITUTIONAL. Oh, and that is redistribution of wealth.

reply to post by David9176


You know , if my business was making millions and millions a year, and the state started taxing me so much it was making it hard to operate, I believe I would take my business elsewhere too, thats called being a smart business man.

As far as your statement about wealth not creating jobs, thats not accurate...

You can have all the ideas in the world, but if you dont have any money or collateral to implement it with, you cant start a business

it doesnt matter if the wealthy can "live" with being taxed 70 percent, thats not right and its THEFT.....the government does it anyway

case in point, if you worked for me and made 50k a year and everyone else made 20k and I told you, that i was going to take 20k of your salary a year and use it to give to those who didnt make as much as you , for their expenses.......would you stay working for me? Would you have ANY ambition to make more? Seeing as how im going to TAKE it!?

Answer......hell no.........youd go somewhere else.......

The sad truth is the hardest working people get paid the least. The only way to get wealthy is by being born into it, getting accepted or marry into it, figure out how to manipulate it both legal and illegally means to make money doing nothing.

A system that allows people to manipulate the wealth to make mass wealth rather than rewarding 8 hours of work per day is a system that will fail.

Its what we are going to do after the failure that we should be focused on cause its too late.

The 20 somethings and those in hightail now will have to build a country. Hopefully one that wont allow people who's soul purpose is power and money to run the show.

Those few with lots will have NOTHING if and when the masses are sick of them. There are single houses here in my area that cost more than 7 miles of middle class homes. Get real...or not and lose your power altogether.

Originally posted by jessieg
I live in a small town, only a few thousand people. Murder in this area is almost unheard of. The most we see are speeding tickets, and some drugs and stuff.

Well today we had someone hijack a car and murder a woman and then rob the bank and use her car as a get away car.

This is probably nothing to some of you, but it has us really rattled.

I think we are going to see more and more violence.

In these discussions I always hink of an old Jay-Z line.

"I don't care if I sell 1 or 1 million but you should because if I sell 1 out comes the hood."

I'm not condoning any type of criminal behavior. What I am saying is that people need to realize that desperate people do desperate things. There aren't too many things more desperate than a man (or woman) that can't feed their kids.

reply to post by David9176


Hopefully this isnt news to you, but corporations arent in business to enrich peoples lives or to act as charitable organizations.

They have one sole purpose: To make a profit and provide a return of that profit to its investors.

My fix? it goes something like this:

- Immediately end all unconstitutional expenditures. No more federal involvement in welfare, foreign aid, education, and every other item not authorized by Article 1 Section 8.

- Bring all of our military back to CONUS and secure our borders by whatever means necessary.

- Release each and every person from prison who is in there due to being convicted of violating unconstitutional laws. (every drug offender for example, and every other inmate who was convicted of a crime in which there was no victim).

- Eliminate the federal reserve and arrest and prosecute each and every officer of it.

I could go on and on, but we need to get back to a nation of Constitutional law, a non-fiat currency, and a free market not bound by senseless regulation and governmental interference.

It doesnt matter if the wealthy could live in the lap of luxury at a 99% tax rate. Taxing someone more simply because they can afford it violates their basic rights, as well as each and every tenet of freedom this nation was founded upon. How about you let me decide how much you actually need and I confiscate the rest?

I never stated I wanted to penalize anyone for having less. Thats purely idiotic and intellectually dishonest.

As for wallet envy, youre damn right. I would love to have a bank account balance that rivals that of Warren Buffet or Bill Gates.


[edit on 1-7-2010 by brainwrek]

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
Like I have said 100 times now if the extension does not pass watch out. Many people will be loosing everything we are talking about millions of people. What do you think is going to happen?


The economy will spin out of control and the people might follow. It is alot like when they said in France to let them eat cake. People will not forget this one and if the Republicans think they are doing this country a favor they could not be more wrong.


It amazes me that they dont see the implications of this. This could turn into the SFTF scenario really fast. This hits people at home and at the dinner table. It is huge but many refuse to see it for what it is.

[edit on 1-7-2010 by Subjective Truth]

It has nothing to do with "people"-

It has to do with politics and riding the wave of anger to gain more power. For government...

There seems to be a correlation between tax's, tariffs and our decline.

what is really ironic is the GOP hates government and might possibly want government to fail.

I wonder if W, did not leave what he did on purpose, to "prove" his point about the failure of this government, he sure did assist regardless. Obama is what he is... I am
talking W and the setting, culmination and systematic creation of loopholes to set up
a unfixable cluster @#$$...


When you read W's words about the poor and business it does mirror
what many say here.

Destroying something from the inside to augment its perceived disfunction.

One has got to think???

OH, and now, elect people who desire government to fail

Just grasp that simple notion people

Just saying...



[edit on 2-7-2010 by Janky Red]

[edit on 2-7-2010 by Janky Red]

reply to post by David9176


I still have yet to see anyone explain to me why this burden should fall on the shoulders of the average working man who has a job, David. You know where I stand on this issue. Regardless of how hard some current administration and congressional members try to force it to be so, the USA is still not a communist nation. It is damn near criminal to force austerity on those still working just to cover the extension of pay-for-nothing unemployment coverage.

As for your little soliloquy against the Republicans, I'll ask you to use the 3 lbs of matter between your ears and think before you jump onto the liberal media's bandwagon on this story. The GOP did not stomp their foot down and refuse to help the unemployed any more than the Democrats did. The GOP insisted that the Dems find the funding for yet another jobless benefits (there should be no benefit to being jobless) extension from an existing source rather than just tacking it on to an already crippling debt burden. In turn, the Dems acted like little teenagers with daddy's credit card in one hand and their allowance in the other. "Who the hell is daddy to expect me to use my allowance to buy myself shiny new crap when I can use it for something else and hammer up the debt on his credit card right now?" I blame the Dems... all they had to do here was show a bit of fiscal responsibillity and use some of the currently being pissed away for a handfull of magic beans Obama stimulus money to fund the unemployed. I guess it truly demonstrates just how concerned for America they are when they refuse to give up their little (essentially wastefull and worthless) pet project funds to help the downtrodden American worker.

At least the GOP is holding to some values and priciples here... shame that the same cannot be said of the other side and even bigger shame that there are actually Americans who don't see this for what it is. Come October, changes will transpire to put an end to this foolishness for at least the next 2 years. It will be interesting to see how many of these pet projects funded by money which could be extending jobless benefits right now will get fast tracked over the coming couple of months to ensure the money doesn't go back into the playing field as soon as the rep pushing the project is voted out on their butt.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
reply to post by David9176

 

I still have yet to see anyone explain to me why this burden should fall on the shoulders of the average working man who has a job, David. You know where I stand on this issue. Regardless of how hard some current administration and congressional members try to force it to be so, the USA is still not a communist nation. It is damn near criminal to force austerity on those still working just to cover the extension of pay-for-nothing unemployment coverage.

As for your little soliloquy against the Republicans, I'll ask you to use the 3 lbs of matter between your ears and think before you jump onto the liberal media's bandwagon on this story. The GOP did not stomp their foot down and refuse to help the unemployed any more than the Democrats did. The GOP insisted that the Dems find the funding for yet another jobless benefits (there should be no benefit to being jobless) extension from an existing source rather than just tacking it on to an already crippling debt burden. In turn, the Dems acted like little teenagers with daddy's credit card in one hand and their allowance in the other. "Who the hell is daddy to expect me to use my allowance to buy myself shiny new crap when I can use it for something else and hammer up the debt on his credit card right now?" I blame the Dems... all they had to do here was show a bit of fiscal responsibillity and use some of the currently being pissed away for a handfull of magic beans Obama stimulus money to fund the unemployed. I guess it truly demonstrates just how concerned for America they are when they refuse to give up their little (essentially wastefull and worthless) pet project funds to help the downtrodden American worker.

At least the GOP is holding to some values and priciples here... shame that the same cannot be said of the other side and even bigger shame that there are actually Americans who don't see this for what it is. Come October, changes will transpire to put an end to this foolishness for at least the next 2 years. It will be interesting to see how many of these pet projects funded by money which could be extending jobless benefits right now will get fast tracked over the coming couple of months to ensure the money doesn't go back into the playing field as soon as the rep pushing the project is voted out on their butt.

But you speak as if the GOP did not spend three decades tacking on the debt and disregard the Trillion + dollar crusade in Iraq. I think only a dishonest man would forget
the manipulation and patriot baiting that the GOP used to ram the endless proxy tax thru, the threat level is magenta, watch you neighbors, bearded people and

"you are with us or against us!"

"YES???"




Yes the lily livered Dems caved, but that was a GOP pet project... Conservative America was the primary voice of support if you recall.

OR how about the OPEC OIL MARKET MANIPULATION, the GOP did not even allow
an investigation into the $5.50 gasoline. They killed that in the opening procedures way back. IF that was not some sort of fascist tax hike, disguised as market function.
The GOP did not even care enough about AMERICANS to investigate WHY gas prices
soared in the manner they did. Even though that money, hundreds of Billions was in fact AMERICAN MONEY leaving our economy, effecting EVERYBODY from the lazy factory worker and the godlike business man. Clearly that episode helped prime the collapse, perfectly timed and ignored by the GOP.

Now these same politicians are going to abandon citizens who were terminated due to the politicians complicity in creating this mess.

These guys spent to high heaven and now they have learned their lesson...

They proactively pursued the largest single campaign against freedom, privacy and
due process- yet now, they are patriots...

And the best part is they are using downtrodden Americans as a prop to exemplify this utter and complete reform of character, its a bloody miracle 30.

Your approval of such corrupt manipulation just emboldens this age long political charade of the politician. They keep up the right appearances at the right times and people like you forget the behavior, the history which has lead to the present moment
whenever that moment may be.

Then your disconnect of the money itself and your credit card analogy... WHO funds the government?

Is it the fault of the unemployed person that the government has mismanaged the funds taken from them for years on end, yet they have to eat it when they need assistance via; receiving back taxes they were previously taxed?

But then again the political football match will better your ideology so
you award approval the most fundamentally dysfunctional thing about government,
manipulation and the ever rewarding good cop role. I could say that the DEMS might be playing the role, however they don't pretend they don't spend and their street soldiers don't refer to working folks as lazy and finally, it isn't popular in this climate. I
am sad that you admire such principle, the most base and corrupting force mankind has to offer, maybe you could examine it from this perspective?


The best way to sink a sinking ship is to stop the bilge pumps and cut the engine before you reach safety. Therefore, I am starting to think this failed government is created and perpetuated by the politicians and citizens who hate government. In short you and so many others want to fix the disfunction's of government by empowering people who would LOVE to see it fail. You as a man should soak that little quandary in... It would be like hiring pyromaniacs to the fire department and then wondering why everything seems to burn down, then hiring more pyros. Self fulfilling prophets? Not hard to do.

I think David is one of the most principled on this board, could it be that he has seen
more than you are willing to examine, especially considering his history here. That was not easy for him, the guy went thru the fire every which way and you haven't moved an inch. I bet you he is willing to see and oppose a whole lot more than you, while you have pivoted around in an endless circle he has walked from right to left and back many times, he is the the true enemy of status quo, while you serve as a sentry. I hope you can reexamine yourself and remember America represents people first and foremost,
the flesh and the blood that manifests itself thru freedom. If the word socialism of communism strips people of their humanity or makes their suffering
any less in your eyes, I feel sorry for you. You should get mobile and examine as many perspectives as you can encounter, if your current ideas are valid and bible truth then you have nothing to fear, do you?






[edit on 2-7-2010 by Janky Red]

reply to post by burdman30ott6


excuse me if im wrong, but when your on Unemployment insurance... didn't you work to pay for that insurance when you did have a job?

Its called insurance for a reason.

We paid into the same thing you do right now, just like social security. UI is in place for a reason. To help people through hard times. Granted some take it as a free ride, but in this recession/depression, people need it to stay afloat.

reply to post by ugie1028


Employers pay into the UI fund, not employees.

Ever see a UI deduction on your pay stub? No.

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by David9176

 

You know , if my business was making millions and millions a year, and the state started taxing me so much it was making it hard to operate, I believe I would take my business elsewhere too, thats called being a smart business man.

As far as your statement about wealth not creating jobs, thats not accurate...

You can have all the ideas in the world, but if you dont have any money or collateral to implement it with, you cant start a business

it doesnt matter if the wealthy can "live" with being taxed 70 percent, thats not right and its THEFT.....the government does it anyway

case in point, if you worked for me and made 50k a year and everyone else made 20k and I told you, that i was going to take 20k of your salary a year and use it to give to those who didnt make as much as you , for their expenses.......would you stay working for me? Would you have ANY ambition to make more? Seeing as how im going to TAKE it!?

Answer......hell no.........youd go somewhere else.......

This systematic lowering and lowering of the rates you speak of have been lock step with the shrinking of the middle class and real wages, clear as a plastic turd. Meanwhile
the poor berated hardworking billionaires keep making more than the decade before and you pay more of your money to them. They in turn add to their constructs, force you to pay more, pay you less, all so that you can give more to perpetuate the process. One could say the same about the government and ah ha, its the freedom loving GOPers that rig the government to accelerate this further. this corrupted notion of freedom has bread TWO of the greatest disasters now, all by letting the corporation create its product with restricted civilian input, which would be the government that is supposed to serve us, as WE are the government. Why not own it, instead of use it to
fulfill our perversions and self fulfilling prophecies?


The financiers were free to create junk product, based upon fiat money, able to loan much more then they had and sell that risk based upon your perverted idea of commerce and freedom. Politicians just like you, advocated to create such a climate of debauchery, actual sought it out and fought for it. Advocated to create a world where the most profitable thing you can do is pervert government, ROB people and create $#@$, nothing but junk, binary code and legal dispersant of responsibility.

Just knowing the fact that our currency is fiat would entail creating some rules
to ensure such a creation is not manipulated. However, this perversion you preach completely ignores such an obvious reality, like the third rail of logic has lost all its power in the presence of the word freedom. Thusly the GOP opens just enough space to let the whole bushel of peckers in and then blames the entity it wields as the source of the rape, not their feudalist minds and deeds.

My dog also salivates when it hears the word bone, wether or not I wield a knife or a treat, it does not make the distinction because it was conditioned. You seem to consider a knife and a bone the same thing essentially, no distinction but freedom, mean while we all drown in your choice of economic vomit you exclaim the vomit is free, natural and thusly constitutional. You unwittingly DEFEND the corruption of this government, by defending the economic power that corrupts this government endlessly. You forget that limiting also consolidates, this error is overlooked endlessly because it is so basic. You place governance in the laps of those who already govern by dictate of capital.

IT is perversion to judge something purely upon merit, one does not kill an intruder for fun does he, even if killing is wrong, there is circumstance. But again, it is simple to distill out the unwanted burdensome detail, circumstance, reality, hungry people, when you have the words constitution and freedom to dilute the physical manifestation. Just words for you, you have thrown away the meaning to guard the halls of puce.

Economic crashes and Oil Spills all in the name of freedom and YOU are required to
pay for that too, your just to dense to see it. The conservative SCOTUS consistently
places the nail in this ideological corpse by ruling in favor of wealthy defendants who
are responsible for creating damage, so the notion of court inspired balance is about are dependable as leprechauns. The GOP fought to limit damages to the injured recipients of industrial violence, based upon similar perversion. GOP "Save BP, boo $#@$ Woo"

I have seen enough, I have tried to understand, the whole lot of you will sell your freedom to the highest bidder in the name of your freedom. While I would rather lose mine to help some other pile of flesh and bones who isn't as together as I am. Either way you are being ruled, by mandate, the weight of some mans pocket or the construct built to line that pocket, they will attempt to exert upon you relentlessly, it will never stop.


[edit on 2-7-2010 by Janky Red]

There is no one who would like to see an end to the social welfare programs BUT, now is not the time. These Reoubs are inviting an absolute disaster. The pittance that the unemployed receive allows them to feed their families. When that goes away, you can rest assured that people are going to resort to much more desperate measures. This marks the beginning of the breakdown of social order! Mark my words - you heard it here first!

reply to post by kozmo


So what, we should be held hostage by what people might do if we dont give them money?

Not a good idea.

reply to post by brainwrek


your a bit rude.

So, my former employer paid for UI... got the point... i guess thanks?

Still does not make a difference. Its still insurance for a reason.

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by David9176

 

You know , if my business was making millions and millions a year, and the state started taxing me so much it was making it hard to operate, I believe I would take my business elsewhere too, thats called being a smart business man.
.

Smart businessman? To me, it sounds like greed and a traitor.

Take Tom Golisano, for instance. He made his fortune up here in NY, by taking advantage of every government tax break he could, utilized all the government programs he could, then when NY decided to raise taxes on the rich, he left for Florida. So all the people that make him money have to stay up here and "suck it up" and "do their fair share" while he sits in Florida soaking up sun (and now, hopefully oil).

Its funny how none of the business owners are crying about "socialism" and "big government" when they are using the programs to their advantage.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
At least the GOP is holding to some values and priciples here... shame that the same cannot be said of the other side and even bigger shame that there are actually Americans who don't see this for what it is.

Are those the values and principles that have helped the corporations for 100 years, or the new values and principles they are trying to sell to conservatives?

Whats sad is that people keep falling for the idea that somehow, these guys in Washington are there to help common folk, whether Dem or Repub.

Originally posted by brainwrek

I could go on and on, but we need to get back to a nation of Constitutional law, a non-fiat currency, and a free market not bound by senseless regulation and governmental interference.


[edit on 1-7-2010 by brainwrek]

So how do you feel about the oil spill in the Gulf? Do you feel that there should be no government checking on or "interference" in the cleanup? Should BP be the one who decides on if they will compensate anyone?

Given the proof - ABSOLUTE PROOF - we have been shown of corporate greed over the past 100 years, do you really believe that Laissez-faire is the correct path at this time? No regulations whatsoever? Do you think that if there were no regulations against pollution, that all companies and corps would pay for expensive disposal of their chemicals, or would they just dump em in the backyard for free?

Everyone complains about Chinese lead toys and melamine dog food, but then cries about "overbearing legislation" here in the states.

Maybe the Chinese have it right....after we behead a few people, all these government restrictions on corporations wont be needed?

How long do you think these government checks will last?

A'La Greece...

Originally posted by brainwrek
reply to post by kozmo

 

So what, we should be held hostage by what people might do if we dont give them money?

Not a good idea.

Depends on how many of them there are. Remember the American Revolution?

People with your mindest caused it. Just sayin...The rich will fall, either willingly or by force. No doubt about it its just a matter of time.