Gay soldiers subpoena Obama

Gay soldiers subpoena Obama

Politico.com

The gay soldiers arrested outside the White House protesting "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" will annouce today that they're demanding that President Obama testify in their trial on minor civil disobedience charges.

Their novel argument: Obama himself called on gay rights advocates to pressure him, so they were just following orders.

The lawyers reasoning:

The subpoena seeks to compel the testimony of President Barack Obama who has, on several occasions as President and Commander in Chief (and previously as a Senator and Presidential Candidate) called on the LGBT community to "pressure" him to change the DADT law and policy, thus allowing gay service members to serve their country openly and honorably.

The subpoena quotes the president's as saying:

So I’m working with the Pentagon, its leadership and the members of the House and the Senate on ending this policy.

“Now, I’ve said this before, I’ll repeat it again — it’s not for me to tell you to be patient, any more than it was for others to counsel patience to African Americans petitioning for equal rights half a century ago,” he said. “And that’s why it’s so important that you continue to speak out, that you continue to set an example, that you continue to pressure leaders — including me — and to make the case all across America,”

Link to supboena

What a very interesting way to fight against being arrested for protesting. ESPECIALLY when the president specifically asked that people speak out and pressure leaders including him. What do you guys think? Do you think they have a valid case? I do.

In this country, speaking out and pressuring leaders includes non-violent protest. It is how, as Obama himself mentioned, African Americans pressured leaders into passing civil rights laws, by marching through the streets and giving speeches near the White House. Did he just expect people to write him a letter?

reply to post by nunya13


I think it's wonderful! I hope they are successful. And I think they have a valid case. I wish them all the best.

Interesting.

Although I highly doubt it will ever go to court and that Obama will actually havet o testify. THere must be some Executive Privilege that allows him to skip such a thing.

I think it's great that they are using his words as an excuse to peacefully protest, he did say it. I remember watching it on TV on several occasions.

Good for them.

On a related note, what to "civil disobedience" and Protesting have to do with each other. How does one turn into another? That's ridiculous that they could even be arrested.

~Keeper

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


It is pretty ridiculous for the president to openly call upon the people to pressure him and other leaders to get their way, a way he supposedly wants them to have, and then not do anything once those people are arrested for doing just that. Maybe he should have specified exactly WHERE it was he wanted them to speak out.

Oh, wait he said "all across America". That would include the White House, would it not?

reply to post by tothetenthpower


You do have a point that he probably will not testify for the reasons you put forth, but the very idea that they are trying to get him to is pretty unique.

Just out of curiosity, what was wrong with don't ask don't tell?

Other than the kicking of members out if they were found out?

We employ a "don't ask don't tell" at my workplace, and that extends to all employees, straight, gay, whatever....

When did people get the need to discuss their sex lives anyways?

Originally posted by peck420
Just out of curiosity, what was wrong with don't ask don't tell?

Other than the kicking of members out if they were found out?

We employ a "don't ask don't tell" at my workplace, and that extends to all employees, straight, gay, whatever....

When did people get the need to discuss their sex lives anyways?

Why should they NOT be able to if they choose to do so?

Effectively don't ask don't tell is a discriminatory practice. It would be the same thing as an employer saying:

We'll hire you, but if we find out your black, or married or have kids or are a Muslim, you're out!

See the problem?

You can't tell gay people they can't serve openly in the army, because being gay has NO effect on the job at hand. It only becomes a problem when the conservatives and the religious make it a problem.

~Keeper

reply to post by peck420


I understand the need to argue "don't ask, don't tell", but this thread is not about that at all. It is about the notion of being arrested for protesting when the protesters claimed the president compelled them to do so; therefore, they should not be charged or sentenced with anything.

Thanks for coming to check out the thread, but I'd like to keep the discussion on track. What do you think about Obama being subpoenaed?

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I don't see a problem at all?

This is why I am confused. My employer plays it straight....anybody caught discussing sex is in trouble, doesn't matter who.

If I do it, I will be in trouble, so will any one else. I'm straight btw.

I just don't think those types of discussion belong in any workplace, military or otherwise.

If the employees want to get together on their own time and talk about, go for it, just not at work.

I guess my question is why does sex or sexuality need to be talked about at the workplace at all?

All those types of conversation do is open the door to sexual harassment, discrimination, etc.

I personally think that "don't ask don't tell" didn't go far enough. It should have been applied to everybody.

(Is my assumption of the US military's "don't ask don't tell" applying to gays only correct?)

[edit on 30-6-2010 by peck420]

reply to post by peck420


Well we have something called the First Amendment in this country...And that protects the right to free speech, INCLUDING talking about Sex......The OTHER thing you gotta realize is most the people who are discharged for "coming out" aren't coming out and going "Yah....I have sex with the same gender...." Usually when someone is "coming out" it applies more to a "relationship or love-interest" instead of talking about actual sex acts.....

I mean how often do you hear a soldier talking about his ole lady back home?
Whereas the minute a gay troop talks about his boyfriend back home....he could potentially kiss his career good-bye....Thus...discrimination.....

Just my 2 cents.

reply to post by nunya13


Sorry, I will not derail this thread any further .

I personally think that this whole situation shows Obama's lack of experience.

I think he had good intentions in that he didn't want the issue forgotten.

That being said, I don't think the courts should allow the subpoena to go through.

If the courts allow it, wouldn't it open the door to suing over broken campaign promises? They would be in essence the same as this scenario.

[edit on 30-6-2010 by peck420]

It's really difficult to read this thread title without keeping a straight face and laughing out loud.

Obama ain't gonna do jack!
He's got plenty of golfing to consider than to even mess with such a topic, even if he had previous asked gays to "pressure" him.
Like everything else, he will continue dragging his feet.

..but if these gay soldiers really want to get a rise out of Obama, I suggest they voice their concerns in Rolling Stone magazine.

Originally posted by peck420
If the courts allow it, wouldn't it open the door to suing over broken campaign promises? They would be in essence the same as this scenario.

Not really. These are gay SOLDIERS. Obama is their commander in chief. They are saying that Obama gave them an order to pressure him and when they obeyed that order, they were arrested.

Very different than a campaign promise.

But still, I don't think anything will come of it. It just makes it more public.

A subpoena taken to the White House gates was not accepted, so now the attorneys must meet with the White House counsel office to make sure the subpoena is delivered.

"It's not likely this will actually come to anything, but they wanted to get the President to support the statements he's been making," she said. "But why not try? You never know until you try."

Source

[edit on 6/30/2010 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I want to be equal with gays. I want to shower with the opposite sex I want to live is the same barracks and enjoy watching the hotties dress and undress. At night who knows what can happen when the lights are out....

If you find the above offensive then imagine being straight with Gay soldiers... I have it was not nice kept having to say over and over..... no I am not your way and felt nasty in the showers being eyed up....

Allow them in the service but give them their own living quarters with their own kind, after all this is what the Army made me do when I rather have lived in the womans barracks....

Just a thought on equality!