VA hospital may have infected 1,800 veterans with HIV

reply to post by Oozii


Hello Oozil

Just a quick reply to your question - 'should they re-use equipment which has been used on patients with HIV again?'

The simple answer is yes, all healthcare systems will do this depending upon the cost of the equipment.

I work within healthcare in the UK, mainly Endoscopy (Gastroenterology, Radiology, Hepatology) andd the decision is based on several factors..
If the item is deemed a'consumable' then in the UK it HAS too be SINGLE USE only...... that is the rule...... There is pressure on pricing and costs but generally Single Use is the way here.
However, if you are using a £25,000 endoscope then the sheer cost means that it is unafforrdable to throw the scope away after use with any type of patient. The only exception to that was when we has CJD (mad cow disease) which was suspected of being a Prion transmission and therefore the usual ways of cleaning or reprocessing the scope did not work. The only case then was to create a small bank of Scopes in several hospitals which were used with Known CJD patients.These were then kept and re-used with other CJD patients.......
The BIG problem here, which I'm sure you can see is that what about those patients who were not showing symptoms or were unaware of their condition ??? They were still using the 'normal' scopes ???!!

Then you also come to the type of procedure. This has a relevance to the way in which medical equipment i cleaned.

In basics, there are two levels of cleaning or reprocessing.
1 High level disinfection
2 Sterilization.

Don't be fooled to think that when you visit a Hospital all the equipment is Sterile ..... because with endoscopes it is deemed acceptable to cleaning them to High Level disinfection which means the device is NOT sterile but cleaned sufficiently to be allowed to be used inside a patient.

Take a Gastroscope, used in the Upper GI tract (oesophagus, stomach, Doudenum). Those parts of the body are actually NON sterile areas. The thinking is that if a Gastroscope is cleaned sufficiently to remove any bugs or flora which 'might' casue a problem then that is fine.
It is too hard and damaging to Sterilise a Gastroscope because the resulting damage to it after being placed in teperatures of 133 degrees steam would destroy it and therefore cost too much......

So you see, it is impossible to use every peice of equipment as 'Single Use'
It costs too much, or should I say the manufactures charge ALOT!!

Cheers

PurpleDog UK

You've got to be joking. These people need to be brought up on criminal charges. This is absolutely sickening.

reply to post by PurpleDog UK


I totally agree with you, and I think everyone understands that most medical instruments are reused and do not have a problem with that.

My problem with this story is how HIV is spread. As I posted above, HIV has a very short lifespan outside a body at unregulated temperatures. So that means one of two things. Either they are basically using instruments on multiple people literally out of one mouth into the next, or this story is false and the dental equipment is taking the heat for a more heinous method of exposure.

It makes more sense that this is a coverup for them having an oral surgeon working for them that had HIV and exposed them accidentally or through gross negligence. The story then would be much worse and would drive us back into the mindset that people infected with HIV are dangerous to the public. It hasn't been that long since society had that mindset. Instead, they blamed it on the instruments which in all honesty is nearly impossible given what we know about HIV.

[edit on 30-6-2010 by PayMeh]

reply to post by Oozii


as an american veteran, this is certainly motivation to make sure i brush my teeth 24 times a day.

Originally posted by Oozii
CNN) -- A Missouri VA hospital is under fire because it may have exposed more than 1,800 veterans to dangerous viruses like hepatitis and HIV.

yep. and those same vets are probably at risk of contracting rabies, cooties, and gamma radiation poisoning recieving treatments for their hepatitis and HIV.


ugh, i just threw up a little in my mouth... tastes like corporational monopolized capatolism....

"america is not a nation of men. it is a nation of laws"
- General/President George Washington

george,
how many laws?

end transmission,
et



[edit on 30-6-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]

reply to post by PurpleDog UK


Thanks very very veryyyyy much for responding to my question. I just wonder what instruments were used on the patients. The article mentions that the instruments were handwashed, but were supposed to be only put in the cleaning machines.

Im guessing it was the basic dentist tools used for a check up. I doubt anything electronic could be put into one of the machines.

Hopefully some more information will be put out soon.

Im just really hoping that this some how ends up being a close call and nothing else.



[edit on 30-6-2010 by Oozii]

reply to post by Oozii


Dental instruments are designed to where the parts that are in contact with a patient are removable and able to be put into an autoclave.

Edit to add:

You're missing the elephant in the room.. The HIV virus is dead minutes after it leaves the body. If they even set it out in the sun for 5 minutes it would kill the HIV virus. This is NOT how they were exposed to HIV. I repeat it's not plausible. If we can dismiss them being exposed to one on their list, then it's safe to say that the exposure to the others is likely to have come from a different source as well.


[edit on 30-6-2010 by PayMeh]

Dr. Michael says the techs were using a sink and strong soap to clean the tools, when they should have sent them to the hospital sanitizing and sterilizing department.

The techs, says Dr. Michael, were trying to protect the delicate instruments by doing the cleaning by hand, but instead, they were breaking protocol.

Source

That anger's me. All to protect a "delicate instrument". Do people think nowaday's of what risks could occur.

And here's the letter that was sent out to the subcommittee below.

Russ Carnahan's letter:

The Honorable Eric K. Shinseki
Secretary of Veterans Affairs
Department of Veterans Affairs
810 Vermont Ave. NW
Washington, DC 20420

Dear Secretary Shinseki:

I am writing to call for a formal investigation into reports that thousands of veterans in several states including Missouri could have been exposed to blood borne pathogens such as Hepatitis B, Hepatitis C, and HIV while receiving dental care at John Cochran VA Medical Center. I understand that this exposure was caused by neglecting to follow manufacturer's directives in properly sanitizing dental equipment.

A grievance of this magnitude is absolutely unacceptable. No veteran who has served and risked their life for this great Nation should have to worry about their personal safety when receiving much needed healthcare services from a Veterans Administration hospital. The men and women who have served this nation deserve the very best health care available - anything less is intolerable.

I insist that you open a formal investigation into this matter. The VA must determine what caused this indefensible breach of standard operating procedures and report what the Department of Veterans Affairs plans to do to address and remedy this unfortunate issue, so that it never occurs again.

Thank you for your immediate and full attention to this matter.

Respectfully,

Russ Carnahan
Member of Congress

reply to post by Oozii


legality jargon and violience are both almost unacceptable.

but a small part of me wants to buy a pair of these: (bozo shoes)



and plant my foot knee deep in someones' hole.

but the pacifist(*pass a fist) in me wants to pass the fist

some aspects of the veterans' support system seems somewhere intbetween a dog chasing it's own tail, and a monky throwing poo at their own clients, who they claim to serve infaluably.

webster has not found the words nor has the almight buck
leaving our veterans out to dry, and praying for good luck
who knows the things their senses have endured, must suck
reports like this thread cause me to and say what the

de-fuddled befuddled, turned around and thrown down
my mouth can do no more expressions beyond a frown
give me those boots that once belonged to bozo the clown!

From what i read is that they were hand washed and then autoclaved

But for hepatitis B, hepatitis C they use a ultrasonic chemical disinfectant system.
HIV will be killed in most cases in dental tools, But dental drills (the biggest risk instruments) have many small internal part and should also be cleaned with ultrasonic chemical disinfectant system plus autoclaved, hand cleaning will only get the outside.

Chances of anyone getting hepatitis B, hepatitis C or HIV the way they were cleaning the dental tools is very low but not zero.

And the techs were even putting them self at risk hand cleaning the instruments,

The best system is to only use instruments that are sealed in sterile packing bags after the have been cleaned and only let the hospital hospital sanitizing and sterilizing department have these sterile packaging materials

When its used only those instruments that are taken out of sterile packaging are allowed.

This is also a good reason to go from the old dental drills to the new laser drills with no moving parts that are easier to clean.

When things like this are found out or disclosed one has to wonder how many times these things have happened without disclosure. With the U.S. GOV's track record of deception and murder I'm going to have to say this was probably done on purpose. But I know, I know, THIS TIME...the gov is telling the truth...but just this time. ;-)