The Right Vs Left: The Big Myth

It does seem that TPTB want to separate all people into two categories: The conservative religious fundamentalists and the atheist secular humanist types. The idea is simple as put everyone in one or the other extreme. The main reason is neither questions the ideas of what is told to them.

Take Christian/Muslim Fundamentalists: They are told from the beginning that Adam and Eve sinned by eating fruit from the Tree of Knowledge. Another word: All knowledge and learning is bad. The only true source comes from the religious leaders in charge, and no one can challenge it or they are a heretic, Communist, Terrorist, etc. The elite can control from behind the curtain what those fundamentalists say and do.

The secular humanists think they are freethinkers, but anyone who has an idea outside the box is immediately ridiculed. Take a look at how writers such as Erich von Daniken and Zecharia Sitchin are treated simply for asking questions and bringing up new theories and ideas. Only certain theories and ideas get the mainstream treatment, and any other idea that questions them is shot down.

Both ideologies think they are correct and do not question what is told to them. The enemy is the other side, and that is exactly what the Elite families who control the media, corporations and governments want.

Then there are those of us who ask questions of both groups. We question what that certain religious book actually means, or we look at something like the pyramids and question the theories that are given to us by the mainstream Egyptologists. I get looked at like a mortal sinner when I mention anything about Jesus being married or having children by my devout Catholic family. I get called ignorant by some for asking questions about certain ancient cultures. (Since the people who say we are not ignorant did not live in the past, how do they know they are always correct?).

We question both political parties in power and wonder why neither one can really sit down and solve any real problems facing our country and planet. (Both parties, liberal and conservative take monies from Wall Street, Big Oil, Big Pharma, etc whether we like it or not. Even Libertarian candidates change "positions" to get elected, making them no better than the ones they criticize.) If you are conservative and question some of the policies, you are labeled a RINO, if liberal DINO. It is also interesting that the Republican Party has co-opted the Tea Party movement, without any members saying boo.

Since many here do question the status quo and show up at websites like ATS, we are called crazy and the tin foil hat crowd. I tried to talk about the JFK assassination to a friend a while back, and was called crazy for even thinking it wasn't Oswald, or there was more than one shooter.

The point I am trying to make is the more we fight among each other, the happier the powerful families that control everything are. As long as we blame the other side, they will not have the finger pointed at them. BP is now their sacrificial lamb, but that company will be swallowed up by other big oil companies, since the same families are on the other boards. And they will not lose any money as they will get a tax break after the "loss" of value.

So what do we do? Ask questions! Do not be afraid to always question what is happening. Question your own political party, church and whatever group says they know the truth. We are the ones who can control our own destiny. But we have to not be afraid of being called crazy and other names.

this is the root of all our problems. we are told everything is "one way or the other" or that every answer comes wrapped in a nice little box on christmas, and its all crap. lies are told as matter-of-fact just to piss off and alienate those who see through them, and to bolster the irrational feelings of those who believe.

I don't really think of "left vs right" as being a "false paradigm" (as Jones would put it).

I do think that most people who consider issues do take some position on the political spectrums. More left or right on economics, or more authoritarian or liberal (libertarian) on rights. I think these are slightly crude, but useful indicators.

Where I agree with your OP, is more if I frame it as "Republican vs Democrat" or "Labour vs Tory". These appear to be much more of a "false paradigm". Sure there are some differences, but it's rare they are on anything meaningful, and often once they get into power they will do something different to that which they espoused anyway.

TPTB separate people on any basis that they can. This is simply one of them. They use social issues, political ideology, religion, class, race, gender, age, and whatever else they can think of to drive a wedge between people to prevent people from focusing on the illogical insanity going on in the world. Divide et impera.

[edit on 29-6-2010 by ~Lucidity]

The polarization of America has been going on for years. The sad truth is it is the small minorities on both sides of the spectrum that scream the loudest, thus garnering the most attention. I would believe that in reality most of us are actually more moderate when it comes to our own beliefs and lean either left or right of center.

People tend to get a message early in life...or in an ad or propoganda campaign.

o America is keeping the world safe for democracy.

o Walmart sells only American goods.

o Saddam killed millions.

o My country right or wrong.

Then when when facts surface or when policy changes, they tend not to notice and in essence continue supporting something that no longer bears any resemblance to reality.

I should note that what I also mean is it is more than just political, even though my thread title states left v right. I was trying to think of a good title for this one, and that is what I kept thinking of.

It also is religious dogma vs atheism and other areas out there.

I also wanted to make a point that anyone who thinks outside the box is marginalized by the so called mainstreamers. Any alternative theory to history is called fringe, which is a term that is derogatory when one looks at it in context.

I do want to thank all the replies for this thread, as I have been trying to think of how to state it here. I do not want it to boggle down to a political or religious thread, but the idea that the powerful elite want to put us all in a box that they can describe as liberal or conservative, religious dogma believer (can't have people be Pagans or try to figure it out for themselves) or atheists. Anyone that gets an idea that challenges the roots of any core belief or tenet is called heretical or crazy.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
People tend to get a message early in life...or in an ad or propoganda campaign.

o America is keeping the world safe for democracy.

o Walmart sells only American goods.

o Saddam killed millions.

o My country right or wrong.

Then when when facts surface or when policy changes, they tend not to notice and in essence continue supporting something that no longer bears any resemblance to reality.

This is too easy.

America is keeping the world safe for democracy.

Wal Mart sells goods mainly from China, because China is the leading producers of goods. Now Wal Mart happens to be in the top 5 companies when it comes to employing Americans. Who believes Wal Mart sells only American goods anyway?

Saddam Hussein did kill hundred of thousands of kurds. Might be a Million Man March type of exaggeration here.

Our country is blessed, and it is right more times than naught.

Let me add to your list.....

Blame America first.

Rich people are evil greedy people.

Killing an unborn baby because it might effect your lifestyle is perfectly OK.

The government knows what to do with your money better than you do, and the more they take the happier you will be.

A group of people is more important than the individual.

Anyway to the OP. If you think there are more similarities than differences between liberals and conservatives, just take one look at a TEA Party protest, and then take a look at a anti-war (america) protest, or a G-20 protest.

You are either Left or Right (or a hybrid of the too , or somewhere in between)

Example - Pro-Gay Marriage people vs Anti-Gay Marriage people . they stand in different sides of the spectrum (Left , Right) , that is it , end of story , you can't join the two.

This whole "Left-Right is an illusion" is such trivial BS.

I think in the end to TPTB the real important part isn't what or how people are divided just that they are as divided as possible. Just as it's also important that we are all completely bogged down with problems and issues. Both of these tactics keep us from being strong by being united in a common goal and also from working as one to solve any problems. We even here on ATS are very guilty of allowing ourselves to look at all these numerous problems we have individually and it's easy to become overwhelmed or bogged down. Myself included. But at the root I've come to realize also that if we could band together and remove the people who are in power now and keep their kind from ever getting back their, 95% of ALL our common issues with the world today would ALL be solved! They are the root of almost all our issues but they pretend to be part of the solution. It's almost comical.

Originally posted by Carseller4Wal Mart sells goods mainly from China, because China is the leading producers of goods. Now Wal Mart happens to be in the top 5 companies when it comes to employing Americans. Who believes Wal Mart sells only American goods anyway?

KF: Again, we are made to pick sides here. Walmart is a multinational corporation that only cares about the bottom line. But they sell to both the right and left, atheist and Christian/Muslim, etc. Why not look for the Mom and Pop grocery store, or independently owned hardware store? Because the Elites that run everything want us buying from corporate chains.

Saddam Hussein did kill hundred of thousands of kurds. Might be a Million Man March type of exaggeration here.

KF: The war is only about oil. Nothing more, nothing less. If Saddam was so bad, why not take him out when George I had a chance? Big oil wanted all the profits and are getting them on the blood of our young men and women and innocent civilians.

Our country is blessed, and it is right more times than naught.

KF: Our country is still great, unfortunately it has always been run by elite families, like other countries of the world. They want to keep us divided so we don't start going after them.

Let me add to your list.....

Blame America first.

KF: Not blaming America for this, all countries have the same problem of elites running the show.

Rich people are evil greedy people.

KF: The rich have gotten richer and the poor have gotten poorer. This is evident in the extreme low wages paid overseas and the corporations willing to take advantage of them. People here are working two or three jobs just to pay the rent.

Killing an unborn baby because it might effect your lifestyle is perfectly OK.

KF: Not going to get involved in reproductive rights/pro life argument. Another way to splinter the country, when the elites always had access to this procedure.

The government knows what to do with your money better than you do, and the more they take the happier you will be.

KF: The government spending our money is the main problem. They spend it to give corporate welfare and allow big oil and mining a chance to pilfer the land tax free.

A group of people is more important than the individual.

KF: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one." Spock Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan.

Anyway to the OP. If you think there are more similarities than differences between liberals and conservatives, just take one look at a TEA Party protest, and then take a look at a anti-war (america) protest, or a G-20 protest.

KF: There always will be differences of opinions. But many who adhere to the one side do not ask them questions that they should ask. The other side is bad and terrible and needs to be eliminated is the mantra, but very few question their own side without being labeled a traitor. The Tea Party members do not question their leadership at all, the same way the Moonbats don't question their leadership.

Again, the titles states right vs left, but it should have stated questioning vs following blindly.

reply to post by WXBackdoor


So a person who supports gun ownership and is pro life who also would like universal health coverage falls into what group?

Again, the left/right, religious/atheist and other groups are made to be extreme and non questioning of their followers is what I am getting at.

The elite wants it so that people have to adhere to one side, and they send their own representatives down to take it over and make sure they don't go after them. How many liberals question Medicare and other government programs when they need to be? How many Tea Party people are questioning the motives of the Republican Party getting involved in their organization? How many Catholics question the leadership of their Church? How many atheists question their leadership?

reply to post by Redwookieaz


That is the point I am trying to get across. People read the Right Vs Left title and immediately this becomes a political thread. (I tried to think of a good thread title, but that one popped in my head.)

It is about all of us, no matter what side or view, who do not question our own views and our own leaders of the matters. Many of us (me too) blindly follow what has been said and do not question it.

Basically, TPTB are still going to be in control until we really do go grass roots and start questioning everything. Thinking outside the box does not make us traitors or ignorant, but people who want answers and the truth about what is going on.

A note here to this thread's readers:

Do you know when you have a great idea that is in your head and you want to create a good thread on it? When you go to type it down, it doesn't sound as good as it did in your head. This thread is not meant to be one on Conservatives Vs Liberals, but on all people questioning what they are told to believe in. When we do question anything, we are given a label by that very group we are questioning: Be it traitor, ignorant, crazy, heretic, etc.

To me, all of these so called groups that follow a strict dogma are the ones that seem to keep us down. They are following and toting the party lines, and if anyone is outside of any one of the views, they are called on it.

I started to think that this is what the powerful elite wants, as they do not us going after or questioning their motives.

If you believe one thing or are part of another group, it is OK to question them also. It is OK for us to think outside the box and say: I don't agree with that, or why do you want us to do this?

I want to thank everyone for reading this, but I am hoping many of you will see what I am really trying to get at, even though it is not up to my usual standards of quality.

Originally posted by WXBackdoor
You are either Left or Right (or a hybrid of the too , or somewhere in between)

Example - Pro-Gay Marriage people vs Anti-Gay Marriage people . they stand in different sides of the spectrum (Left , Right) , that is it , end of story , you can't join the two.

This whole "Left-Right is an illusion" is such trivial BS.

I agree that it's trivial BS, for people like you and I who can think for themselves. But for so many people it means everything. This is the reason why my government can't accomplish anything.

Chris Rock "I have some things that I'm conservative about and some that I'm liberal. Gun control, I'm conservative. Prostitution, I'm liberal."

Fat Mike of NOFX singing about peoples inability to be an individual and live free. "So go back to your crib, and suck on a tit, and bask in the warmth of your diaper, your sitting in s#!t and piss while sucking on a giant passifier, a country of adult infints, a liegon of mental midgets...........
'cause swimming alone at sea is not the kind of freedom that you actually want."

Sorry, had to stop somewhere. I could have quoted the whole song, or the entire album, or 50 different albums that I love.

A short Fat Mike quote: "Must separate the church and skate!"

reply to post by kidflash2008


One thing is for certain, there has been a concerted effort by someone, or some group to dumb down the populace, and introduce cultural memes and doublespeak into the lexicon. Take the word myth so prominently used in this threads title as just one example, to illustrate just how manipulated the O.P. has been. Since time immemorial myths have been those tales told of creation stories, origin stories, and most importantly; tales of heroic adventures. Whether these tales be fiction or not is less relevant than their ability to survive the ages, and they survive the ages because of their message. Yet, the word today has been bastardized to mean falsehood, or lie.

Where the cultural meme placed in society has been that of a word that means nothing more than falsehood, myths in reality speak universal truths, particularly that of the reluctant hero and their call to adventure. Whether it be Hercules, Jesus, Luke Skywalker or Spiderman, the tales are told to inspire humanity to be heroic. However, when the word myth itself is relentlessly used to mean falsehood, is it any wonder that then myths themselves become glossed over and paid little attention to? Take, as just one example, the myth of the fall from grace and subsequent expulsion from the Garden of Eden.

Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden for eating fruit from the Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil, not just simply "the tree of knowledge". It was not knowledge in general that Adam and Eve were warned against obtaining, it was a specific knowledge, and that was the distinction between good and evil. This is an important distinction to make, and radically changes the interpretation from that of knowledge in general. Where the O.P. has taken an interpretation that the message from this myth is that all knowledge is good and bad, the irony of such an interpretation is that it hard to believe the O.P. has actually read Genesis and considered its message carefully.

It should come as no surprise that a person who believes they have been conspired against to come to believe knowledge is bad, would have so little knowledge of Genesis and its precise language, (even if translated ad nauseum), and what that language is attempting to communicate. Further, where there are numerous interpretations of the fall from grace, most interpreting this myth to be a cautionary tale of what happens when one disobeys God, it is more than likely a precautionary tale of what happens when one disobeys the law, a law that even God is subject to.

If the Garden of Eden is presented as a Utopian life where all things are good, and those who live in such a Utopia are warned from eating a fruit that would then give them knowledge of both good and evil, it stands to reason that if this person chooses possessing knowledge of both good and evil that they would necessarily have to leave their Utopian home where only good exists. How can one possibly come to know evil in a Utopian ideal where only good exists? Thus, in order to fully possess the knowledge of good and evil, it was necessary that Adam and Eve leave the Garden of Eden and go out into the world, and come to know both the joys and horrors of mortality.

Of course, all too often, religion is presented as a dogma where reason does not apply, but this is simply not true, and while there have indeed been priest class elites who have conspired to keep from humanity the true texts and meanings of those texts, truth has a wily way of presenting itself to those who seek it, and often times even for those who are not seeking it. Where the O.P. insists that no one may challenge the interpretations of the priest class elite, history is filled with great man who did exactly that, even if that history be told in myths, such as Prometheus, or Jesus, and even the myth of Galileo, (for surely historians challenge the efficacy of his famous and sullen utterance; "And yet it still moves"), these are men who defied the elite and demanded the truth be told.

All to often, the truth is presented as some specific knowledge that brings to those who possess it the authority of being right, and those who lack it the condemnation of being wrong, as if contradictory facts can't both be true. The complexity of truth lies in the reality that not all contradictory facts can be true, but that there are times when contradictions can both be true. The real problem in coming to know the truth is not a lack of knowledge, but instead a lack of wisdom. What good is knowledge if we have no idea what to do with such knowledge? This, I suspect, is the real message of the fall from grace myth; that Adam and Eve were ill equipped to possess the knowledge of good and evil, and had to go forth into the world and respond, (ever so reluctantly) to their own call to adventure, so they may develop the wisdom necessary to handle the knowledge of both good and evil, a contradiction in knowledge, and yet truth.

The message of the fall from grace myth goes beyond just simply gaining the wisdom to handle the knowledge of good and evil, it tells a tale of a longing to return to paradise, where contradictory thoughts are harmonized into a satisfaction of unconditional love. Good and evil are not truths that bring with it knowledge of a higher power, but strange and necessary constructs for a lesser power that must somehow make sense of the horrors and tragedies that befall them.

The irony of the O.P. is that it begins by presenting simplistic contradictions and offers them up as a construct created by elites to control the masses, but ends by offering a message that we should always question and never fear the labels others would place upon us because we question, and in offering this message, the O.P. has echoed the great myths told since time immemorial. Prometheus defied the gods and brought knowledge of fire to humanity, and in doing so taught humanity that they can indeed know what the gods know. Sisyphus defied the gods and questioned the value of punishment by embracing his eternity of pointlessness through commitment of action, and inspired humanity to question the authority of the gods. Both Hercules and Jesus offered up a better way to live, and taught that a life lived in the service of humanity was the better life, and in doing so taught humanity that hero's will accept responsibility, not just for their own action, but for the actions of many.

These are the messages of myths, that serve to instruct us in how we might live a better life while here on this planet as biological constructs, and if we are to question authority, perhaps we would be best served to question the dubious and lazy nature of doublespeak. Words have power, and not just in their symbolic way of communication, (which is vital to communication), but in their vibrational frequencies, words effect us to our very core. Thoughts are things and when we understand this, we are better equipped to choose those things that better serve our purpose.

Why would we agree to use a word such as myth to denote falsehood or lie, rather than simply use the words falsehood or lie? What is to be gained by discounting the truth about myths in order to have this word used in our vocabulary to mean something other than what the word was intended for? How many words have fallen prey to this insidious doublespeak? Selfishness has been defined as having a chief concern for ones own interest, especially with disregard for others, but reason and logic dictate that as humans having regard for others is in our best interest. Liberal is simply defined being broad minded, but now is used to denote a specific dogma. Conservative is simply defined as one who conserves, and yet today it is used to describe a particular progress towards fascism, and since this progression towards fascism doesn't particularly fit within the parameters of conservative, a new term is invented, and now we have "neo-conservatives".

Thoughts are things, and we clarify our thoughts through the use of words. When those words become less clear in their meaning, they do not loose their vibrational power, and on a higher frequency they don't even really loose their meaning. So, if we are to agree without question that words can mean whatever we choose for them to mean, we become prey to our own subconscious, never consciously realizing the damage we are doing by using words inappropriately. Question indeed, and we should begin by questioning the true meaning of words, and why too many of those words today have strayed so far from that meaning. How could we ever possibly unite, if we cannot even effectively communicate? How could we ever hope to agree, if we can't even agree on what words mean?