Jerusalem Master Plan: Expansion Of Jewish Enclaves Across The City

reply to post by Gorman91


Yes. Both side have had their issues. But lets look at the facts.

Israel says they are the chosen one. Arabs don't agree. Israel uses that as a crux to defend their actions. Again, Arabs do not agree. Israel implements their control to help galvanize their expansion. Israel uses their DC lobby to help fund their selfish expansion. Israel doesn't do anything for anyone else that does not enable their ideology first.

Did I mention that they followed the hijackers, knew of their plans, and did not tell USA about them. If this doesn't open your eyes nothing will. Do I need to post the proof of this or can you google it yourself?

Israel will never stop. NEVER. They are the problem. They moved into the area and started pushing people around. Period.

AAC

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


And many Arabic nations knew, and did not tell. Many Arabic nations follow their own plan they think God sent them. Hell, one of our major allies, Suadi Arabia, is the source of it. You're going to tell me they knew nothing? ha.

In the game of global politics, friends are only there to have someone to fight with. Doesn't mean you don't spy on them. War sucks. Nation suck.

I fail to see what makes Israel unique? everything you listed, many other nations do the same.

And as far as I know, the US knew about the terrorists and their plans too.

Who made the rule you tell your allies everything? The US failed to mention to the Russians their secret bomb. Wonder how many Russians would still be alive if the Russians and Americans did not hide things from each other.



All you've proven is Israel is just as bad as every nation on Earth.



And let me reinforce one other thing. I couldn't care less who wins. because All I see is a bunch of barbarians dressed up differently.

Originally posted by Gorman91


Who made the rule you tell your allies everything?

This is the smoking gun to reveal your true intentions. Are you serious? We give Israel Billions of dollars, military equipment, and veto every UN condemnation of their deplorable actions.

And they don't tell us when Arabs are going to kill our citizens? Just because it enables the hatred that they seek of the Muslim world on a grand scale? You my friend are contaminated in your infinity for fairness.

AAC

reply to post by Gorman91


I think your vision is too narrow, and your ignorance is making you blind.

Heck do you think Palestinians want to die lol.. And want to live under Israeli occupation? And want their land to be stolen until there is non left?

Read history, it will help./

common, I posted a reply to your thread, go write me a response.

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


I never said we should do those things. I merely told you that true allies are few and far from. I think to date the only true ally of the US is England. And even then there are state secrets between the two.

Never said I agree with it.

Never said i like it.

It just is as it is. There are very very few nations that have the interests of other nations in their actions. Take a gander of how many nations have shared terrorist info, locations, etc etc.

To date, I think it is only England who stopped a terrorist plot on American. To date only England has stayed a true friend.

It's sad, really. It needs to change. But at the end of the day, it's the way things are.


reply to post by LittleSecret



Honestly I cannot answer that question. Thus far the actions of Palestine and Israel seem nothing short of suicidal.

Do they want to die? Sure there are some who don't want to die. But to tell you the truth, I cannot say the majority do not. Maybe on face value they do not. But they do not seem to have the mentality of sane people. Maybe its war consuming sanity, but they are suicidal from their actions.

I cannot see anything more than a bunch of suicidal superstitious fools fighting over a chunk of land because somebody'd great grand daddy may or may not have been attempted to be sacrificed to a God who, as far as I care, stopped caring about the entire matter long ago.

[edit on 28-6-2010 by Gorman91]

[edit on 28-6-2010 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
What is the point of this? So since too many people will die, Israel must continue their blatant deception and murder? Not really getting it.

No, I just think that those who profess the "Israel must go away" thoughts never consider the total carnage that would happen should Israel just "vanish". There is no solution that works without an Jewish Israel and an Arab Palestine existing in the relative borders that currently exist. Palestine isn't going to get more land and neither will Israel. As far as I am concerned, both sides are idiots for letting their children die needlessly and endlessly.


The Final Status of Jerusalem is going to the the tricky, if not impossible piece of the puzzle to negotiate. Both sides really want it. I think everything else they can reach agreements on, Jerusalem I am not so sure. They would be better off to make it under UN control, but that isn't going to happen.

More of this...

Razing of Palestinian homes in E. Jerusalem approved despite 250 shortfalls in plan

Documents obtained by Haaretz suggest that the plan to raze 22 Palestinian homes in Silwan to make room for tourist center was not ready to be approved by planning committee, but was rushed by Jerusalem mayor Nir Barkat.

www.haaretz.com...

reply to post by JanusFIN


I fail to see how this makes Palestine look better? Russia destroyed Nazi Germany and put the most into stopping him. Does that deny the actions of the Russian government's own genocides?

Could it possibly go beyond the middle east? I believe their goal is in three fronts.
Middle East.
China against India
U.S. against Central and South America.
Then a fourth possibly within Europe.

reply to post by ShadowRamesses


How do you gain when all your tourists are dead?

reply to post by pavil


There is no easy solution, I agree. But it could be argued that an extremely small percentage of Israelis or their parents were actually from the homeland, and that they could go back to their home country where they migrated from and be Jewish there.

So as a result of the alternative, do millions of people still have to die in the name of Israel when it has not effect on their allegiance to their Jewish God?

AAC

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


You could argue the same for the other side as well, it doesn't reflect the current reality. Neither side is going to pack up and leave.

Sooner or later they (both sides) have to figure out a way to live peacefully with each other, as neighbors. ....... Or they have to totally wipe out the other side. Hopefully they come to their collective senses one of these days.

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
they could go back to their home country where they migrated from and be Jewish there.

Why the hell should they do that? Why don't you get off Indian land, pack up move to Britain and be American there? Seriously your logic has me bewildered.

reply to post by SteveR

But it could be argued that an extremely small percentage of Israelis or their parents were actually from the homeland, and that they could go back to their home country where they migrated from and be Jewish there.

I didn't say they would, should or could, just that it could be argued. Just like some argue that palestinians are Jordan, Egypt, Syrian, and Saudi Arabian rejects that are only there because their countries didn't want them and they should move back.

How's the blood pressure?

However, modernization has gone great links to humanize imperialism. If CNN was airing the Indians mass-killings I'm sure we would have less US states and more Indian Casinos.

However, as a side note, I would like to see an Israeli-less globe... to be extreme. I feel it to be an easy fix. But I am not from the school of thought that see their existence as political and military strategy in the region. Just nonsense. But we all have opinions...

AAC

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
I didn't say they would, should or could, just that it could be argued.

Wordplay. Why would you make such an argument against them? Why is their existance in Israel unacceptable?

I would like to see an Israeli-less globe... to be extreme. I feel it to be an easy fix.

That's because you have been absorbing anti-semitic propaganda.

I can see no legitimate reason for the Israelis to leave, nor for the state of Israel to fold. But it is becoming the popular viewpoint these days.

reply to post by SteveR


I don't think they will leave or fold. However, it is easy to see why the sentiment is spreading.

Would Islam find us their enemy if we didn't support Israel wholeheartedly, including but not limited to our veto support, military and financial aide in and effort to further galvanize their growing control in the region that will only end with many people dead?

Anti-Israeli sentiment is growing even within the walls of Israel itself. What do I think of their Arab neighbors? I think that they have been provoked by western ideology and greed, and what happens when an animal is provoked?

Radical Islam is a blow back from our greed. I do see it differently, right or wrong, we are each the judge.

AAC

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
Would Islam find us their enemy if we didn't support Israel wholeheartedly

Yes.

their growing control in the region that will only end with many people dead?

Conjecture. One could easily say Islamic growing control in the region will only end with many people dead. Just naked opinions, you cannot seriously base judgments on such conjecture. It is like asking a neighbor to pack up and move because you heard a bad rumor or have paranoid suspicions.

Is this hot air the best case one can make against Israel?

Radical Islam is a blow back from our greed.

Radical Islam is capable of defining itself. It existed long before it was exposed to Western interests. Read the Qu'ran, it is undeniably one of the most radical, violent and intolerant books in existance.

"Radical Islam" is ofcourse a misnomer from politically correct propaganda, it is simply Islam.

Would Islam find us their enemy if we didn't support Israel wholeheartedly

Then why we we first attacked by Muslims who traveled here? Why not a Muslim that already lived here? I have Muslim friends that would never murder. Everything in religion is left to interpretation. The Old Testament was a pretty violent read in itself.

One could easily say Islamic growing control in the region will only end with many people dead.

Western powers are catering that realization to justify action. Yes, there are extremist in every religion. Yes, there are backwards interpretations to scripture. Many christian horror stories are catalogued into history. Son of Sam said Jesus told him to shoot people. It is a volatile subject, but no need fighting fire with firewood as the powers in charge seem to do.

Just naked opinions, you cannot seriously base judgments on such conjecture.

It is not just this that makes me think this way. Just as it is not your rebuttal on this thread that makes you believe the other way. You have seen the spread of seemingly barbaric reactions to domestication by arabs in your neck of the woods. It needs to be dealt with, but not by the sword. IMO.

It is like asking a neighbor to pack up and move because you heard a bad rumor or have paranoid suspicions.

Rumors? Suspicions? I wish it were only that.

Is this hot air the best case one can make against Israel?

The best case is when you have your own people calling you out.

AAC



[edit on 7-7-2010 by AnAbsoluteCreation]

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation


Then why we we first attacked by Muslims who traveled here? Why not a Muslim that already lived here? I have Muslim friends that would never murder. Everything in religion is left to interpretation. The Old Testament was a pretty violent read in itself.

AQ attacked us if we are to believe them, for us having troops in Saudi Arabia and supporting said Arab governments as well as for our support of Israel. AQ had our support of Israel as a secondary reason to hate us, not the primary reason. Even without Israel existing, AQ would still be attacking as long as we supported Arab Countries that prevent their goal of establishing a new Caliphate. I don't think AQ cares a rat's behind about the Palestinians, only about establishing the new Caliphate.



Radical, Fundementalist Religion of any sort is bound to cause problems for the "unbelievers".

Then why we we first attacked by Muslims who traveled here? Why not a Muslim that already lived here?

I really don't understand your point. Care to rephrase?

I have Muslim friends that would never murder.

They are not Muslims. They have no clue what being a Muslim is about. They are fakes and they don't even know it. Obviously it is a comfortable lifestyle choice for them. But Islam it is not.

The PRIMARY concern for a Muslim is to follow the Qu'ran, Sharia and Hadiths by the letter. Everything else is secondary. I would put every penny to my name on your friends not doing this, not anywhere near doing it. But it is what defines a Muslim, anything else is a fake. Fake like a Catholic who never goes to Church or never listens to the Pope.

Everything in religion is left to interpretation.

Not really. Muslims pride themselves that the Qu'ran has never been tampered with, and is the pure literal word of God. There are no two ways to interpret commandments to behead disbelievers. Fake Muslims ignore these verses, all hundred odd of them.

The Old Testament was a pretty violent read in itself.

You are cherry picking to make a point. It was superceeded by the New Testament which is the book that Christianity is inarguably based on. The New Convenant. Is there a New Qu'ran, one perhaps less violent? No. Nothing superceeds the Qu'ran, and if you suggest that something does you are commiting a capital offense in Islam.

A more valid comparison would be New Testament vs the Qu'ran. We can take a look at that.

1. Jesus was born of a virgin. (Matthew 1:18-25)
2. Jesus served God as a child. (Luke 2:39-52)
3. Jesus read the Bible. (Luke:16-21)
4. Jesus preached the gospel at God's command and lived on the donations of others. (Luke 4:16-21 and 8:1-3)
5. Jesus performed miracles. (Mark 3:9-10)
6. Jesus made blind eyes see. (Luke 18:35-43)
7. Jesus made the lame walk. (Matthew 9:2-8)
8. Jesus healed withered hands. (Matthew 12:10-13)
9. Jesus raised the dead. (John 11:1-45)
10. Jesus forgave his opponents. (Luke 23:43)
11. Jesus set the condemned free. (John 8:1-11)
12. Jesus preached in God's chosen temple. (Luke 20:1)
13. Jesus preached against divorce. (Matthew 5:31-32)
14. Jesus was sinless. (John 8:46)

1. Muhammad was born of a normal woman. (Ibn Hisham pp. 68-69)
2. Muhammad was and idolater. (Sahih Bukhari vol.6, p. 452)
3. Muhammad was illiterate. (Qur'an 7:156)
4. Muhammad, without being commanded by God, began to steal from others and live on their goods. (Ibn Hisham pp. 281-)
5. Muhammad could not perform miracles. (Qur'an 29:49)
6. Muhammad made seeing eyes blind. (Sahih Bukhari vol. 8, p. 520)
7. Muhammad made the walking lame. (Sahih Bukhari vol. 8, p. 520)
8. Muhammad cut off the hands of others. Sahih Bukhari vol.8, p. 520)
9. Muhammad had the living killed. Ibn Hisham p. 308)
10. Muhammad had his opponents murdered. (Sahih Bukhari vol. 5, pp. 248-)
11. Muhammad condemned the free and led them into slavery. (Ibn Hisham p. 466)
12. Muhammad prayed at the Ka'ba when it still contained hundreds of idols. (Sahih Bukari vol. 1, p. 151)
13. Muhammad preached divorce and allowed temporary marriage with compensation. (Mut'a) (Qur'an 2:230, Sahih Bukhari vol. 7, p. 8)
14. Muhammad was sinful. (Qur'an 47:21 and Qur'an 110)

Just as it is not your rebuttal on this thread that makes you believe the other way. You have seen the spread of seemingly barbaric reactions to domestication by arabs in your neck of the woods.

You are just using some of my views to patch together my intent here. I saw your post accusing Israel of being Satan incarnate, but I am too kind to bring it into the discussion against you. I believe what I believe about Islam for other reasons. Namely how millions of people suffer at the hands of it globally. I believe and have very good reason to believe that it is a myth that extremist Islam is a "minority". You are also wrong that the Western powers want to cultivate the view of an Islamic threat. Bush sure kept quiet about the lack of freedom in Saudi Arabia, for obvious reasons. But in Saudi Arabia and other countries you don't hear of, so called "Radical Islam" is the way of life for everyone. Stonings, beheadings, burying people even young girls alive is commonplace and accepted. The victims even ASK for this if they have committed breaches of the Sharia. Such is the power of Islam.

Rumors? Suspicions? I wish it were only that.

Tell me how "Israel will cause the deaths of millions" is more than the ruminations of a fearful mind. If you cannot provide substantial basis for this serious claim, we should just assume it is an empty suspicion. Like I said before such statements can apply to anything. I am all for free thinking but levelling a charge necessitates evidence.

The best case is when you have your own people calling you out.

An Israeli teenage girl is a pacifist. And this is the best case against Israel. Puhleeze.

I have a good case worth considering.

www.yoism.org...
josiahe.files.wordpress.com...
www.seraphicpress.com...
2.bp.blogspot.com...
www.factsofisrael.com...

Hell. Not even the Nazis would go below 14 and that was in the battle of Berlin. Seriously, I could weep for those kids. I will never buy the excuse "this is the fault of Israel" those parents KNOW what they are doing. Plain to see.


[edit on 2010/7/7 by SteveR]