Conspiracy: The Rapture Doctrine

reply to post by No King but Jesus

I agree with the Lord in that He is against the ones that teach stuff that do not agree with the gospel of peace that came once for all through God's firstborn Son raised from the dead Ruler of Heaven and Earth the King of kings Lord of lords Jesus Christ whose blood was shed for the sins of all that whosoever believes in Him should have eternal life.....

Man, you really are on Bible autopilot, aren't you? Ever hear of punctuation? A sentence ever so often? Anyway, I know your Lord is dead set against anyone who teaches that the Bible is made up hearsay, and that a man named Jesus never existed, because if people every wake up to the lies, they will rebel against the Dragon that controls them all, and break free of the chains of religious dogma. I follow the Feminine Divine, the one your religion did everything in it's power to stamp out, including the murder of a million women, just because they were "wise," the true meaning of the word "witch."
Even in your own book, in Revelations it records the story of how the Dragon chases the Woman, heavy with child, and the Dragon tries to kill the child before it can be born. But! it also says the Lady is hidden away by friends.....The child, of course, is a Free World, instead of a controlled one. I know that your Lord tries to gain control of my soul, but he will not have it, no one will, for it is mine alone now, and even my Sirian/Pleiadian creators are not my masters, by any sense of the word. I will never bow down and supplicate to anything, I stand tall and strong against all who attempt to control my thoughts, my mind, my world.

We will have to agree to disagree, this thread is pointless to continue.

reply to post by autowrench


are you talking about the ancient dragon that tempted the mother of all living with rebellion to God?

I am starting to think that if you believe in the rapture, you will be deceived because you will see what you think is God in the air, and it could be a huge hologram or something.

I believe that when He finally does return, no one is going to drag you out of the house to go see, or tell you where to look. You will just see it. Even if you are blind you will.

It even says that if you hear that God is on the mountain or in a certain city or if people have to tell you where to go and stand to see it, then it isn't real.

When it finally does happen, no one will have to tell you. You will just see it no matter where you are. With a Hologram, you would have to be in a certain location. You'd have to leave your house and go outside to see. Or maybe you would turn on your television to see media coverage.

So if anyone tells you to physically drive or walk some place to see God, or to turn on your television, or to even just to go outside and look up, it isn't real. If it was real, no one would have to even inform you of it, you'd already know.

When the Republican party wanted to add a third leg to their stool back in the 1970s, they chose a form of Christianity that would counter the effects of social/religious changes they perceived as being brought about by liberal Christians. For some it was a matter of keeping to the old ways, for others it was a chance to advance their fundamentalist platform.

Rather than a religion of inclusivity (liberal), they chose a form of religion that was exclusive in practice. The Rapture separated good from evil, just as America military strength would fight evil in the world. And as George Bush liked to say, "You're either with us or against us." In the minds of followers, you're either a patriot or not, support govt or are treasonous.

And it didn't hurt politically to have an authoritarian (and patriarchal) block of voters who would not challenge authority's proclamations. The word of God became the word of the GOP. The party's political platform could be spread through a network of churches.

The End Times ministries could also fit in nicely to advance acceptance of and to garner support for Middle East conflicts among the Base. This brand of religion pervaded the military, to ensure their support.

And Washington could spread their military/foreign policy good news in places like Africa, through their Base of fundamentalist missionaries. And global televangelism helped spread US interests worldwide. And WalMart could sell End Times books, to further galvanize the Base. WalMart, the Bases's madrassa.

Yes, Osama Bin Laden was not the only one to have a fundamentalist Base. The Rapture was a part of the American Al Qaeda.

reply to post by jessieg


how bout enraptured?

Can a man bear children? Then why do I see every strong man with his hands on his stomach like a woman in labor, every face turned deathly pale?-Jer30.6

For it is written: "Be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband."-Gal4.27

The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.-Rom8.19

A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world. 22And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.-John16.20

"For a brief moment I abandoned you,
but with deep compassion I will bring you back.
8 In a surge of anger
I hid my face from you for a moment,
but with everlasting kindness
I will have compassion on you,"
says the LORD your Redeemer.
9 "To me this is like the days of Noah,
when I swore that the waters of Noah would never again cover the earth.
So now I have sworn not to be angry with you,
never to rebuke you again.-Is54.7

"Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.-Is1.18

Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves.-Rom14.22

We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.-2Cor10.5

Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.-1Cor15.24

to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore!-Jude1.25

Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.-Phil3.12



[edit on by No King but Jesus]

reply to post by No King but Jesus


Sorry wasnt saying you didnt see or hear anything was just pointing out that the mythology is pop culture of today and based upon books that are not in the bible or canonical in any way be it judaism or christian. The beings the passages your quoted are describing doesnt call them angels. It describes and names what type of being they are but the bible never ever uses the word angel in connection with these winged beings. Well i should say that its not new because painters and artists have been painting and drawing these beings and making this connection for hundreds of years. I was just pointing out that they arent angels but heavenly beings that were a creatin of god. Angels are messengers and can either be spiritual or physical beings. The word angel was often used to describe human messengers of god.

Originally posted by Village Idiot
Life isn't like that, we were created as Simple beings with a common instinct to survive and excist..........

This has very little to do with an attempt to confront your views, due to the "Moniker" you embrace.

It has to do with this veiw you, and a majority of Humanity today for that matter, has that Man, (Mankind) created on the 6th Day was some backwards, under developed, uneducated, individual, (in a Collective Sense), that somehow eeked a life from day to day, existing barely, who was without the ability to exhibit considered thought and lofty goals.

The Globe is awash with evidence that suggests, 15000 Years ago, (just picked as an average figure to establish what period of time Day 6 may actually represent), Mankind, (6th Day Man) was very skilled at many creative and thought provoking tasks. Some of the Oldest Known Structures on this Planet would be absolutely impossible for us today to recreate. And NOTHING we are able to make today, is built to LAST as these Ancient wonders have. They could do it, but we can not.

Granted the Agricultural revolution, (which occured when God Breathed life into The Man, named Adam, which HE created sometime after the Day of Rest,) that took place some 6-7 Thousand years ago, (Which in a general sense is when it, (the Bible), suggests the Biblical Adam was Created), made for a completely different method of Feeding Oneself and One's Peoples. Rather than being that Liquid, Mobile, going to a fro, with the Fruits of the Earth GOD gave them to survive upon, they became more centric in their lifestyle. Residing in one place and leaving that Nomadic Lifestyle was the greatest step Mankind has taken over the last 6-7 Thousand Years.

BUT then, we also seem to have more than enough evidence that could be presented to actually support the theory Mankind has fallen more than it thinks, and is frankly closer to it's distant cousins, from the First Earth Age, (The period of time between Genesis 1: and Genesis 1:2), than we will wish to admit. We truely are a step away from that "Gieco" Caveman.

We were created anything BUT simple my urbanized comedian friend.

I just wished to make a point of this.

Have a good night

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by autowrench


I am just as angry as you and I can add very confused at times. I do not believe the Rapture is a true biblical event and feel it is used as a scare tactic for profit.

I am interested in joining your dialogue but these kind of subjects are difficult without knowing little more about you and why you were compelled to create this posting.

I will quote no bible verses, attempt any psychoanalytic judgements and show nothing but respect for your views.

First, I would like to ask a couple questions if you would not mind answering.

1. In the Bible (regardless of whether it is stated in the KJ, NKJ, NIV or The Blah Blah Blah version) - Who is the ruler or god if you will, of this world?

2. Was or is there some religious incident in your life which brought you to your stated convictions?

3. Do you have any belief in higher powers, creators, spiritual or religion of any kind?

Regards,
thom

reply to post by No King but Jesus


Hello there...

You have been on my mind today for what ever reason. We conversed in another thread today.

Regarding your experience, first I want to thank you for sharing it with others. I believe that this is something we are to do...because I believe we are a unit ultimately, a ONE in Spirit. If I heard a voice, saying what you heard, I would probably walk the line you are walking, so I now see where you are coming from.

just remember to tell this guy He's not real when you meet him, the one whose AUDIBLE voice I heard as if sitting beside me on the left one night as soon as I had begun to open the cover of a small green Gideon NT (that a chick from the Plains left on the bar a few days earlier) that said-my name, I am Jesus I died for your sins believe in Me and you will never perish-AWESTRUCK I stood to my feet (not being raised "churched" or knowing the scriptures) and said yes Lord and read this years later-

What this shows me, and of course, this is just sharing my personal opinion....is you received, what you were in need of. The path of being saved by another, is sometimes needed, for sometimes, the soul can not carry the load they have been given. You were in a state of having trouble...and you needed to be 'saved'. To me, this is your higher self, which can be in the form of Jesus, if that is what is needed and best for you....telling you its ok, and to not worry. I find this to be beautiful and pure love.

I might see it differently then you...but it was not my experience to observe, so my thoughts do not matter on the subject of your experience.

I have seen many people though, get what they are in need of. Some might receive visions of a woman that greets them to offer nurturing and comfort, for this may be the form that they will be comfortable with, and accept.

I believe we are all loved, unconditionally, how can a parent ever stop loving and hoping for their child?

Like you, I have had personal experiences. All I can do is share them and tell others how I perceive it....and not expect them to take it as their own truth. Since I feel that the soul/spirit of Jesus was the one that led me in my experiences...as well as the Holy Spirit leading me in the understanding of many things....I tell others to not believe me, but seek Thee....and see what happens. Just as though...you tell others, to seek the Bible, for that is where you found the truth of your experience.

My mother, who was a devout Christian, had a incredible NDE....that showed her many things also. I was at her bedside through it all, and she would awake and tell me things she was seeing and experiencing. All from meeting Jesus, seeing her life through a Divine Eye, seeing her mother had been reborn to keep learning, seeing that she could not be saved by the blood of another, Jesus was the one that took her to the field of blood and left her alone there...with many others, as they tried to clean it up. She went back in time and saw much of Earths history, especially in Egypt. She saw a past life of herself in the days of Jesus, she was a family member to the wife of Piolot and saw how much stress Piolot went through about the people wanting Jesus dead. Her experience even brought her to see how other beings of life that looked like humans, came to Earth and that this history is kept below the Sphinx, like a memory of life on Earth.

Before her experience, her and I offered ourselves together, to the Holy Spirit, to be used if there was anything the Spirit saw us fit to be used for. When I found myself, by her bedside, and she started telling me the things she saw while asleep and awake (including cherubim over my head, 3 of them, and a gold ray of light coming out of the top of my head) I began to write the things she spoke of in the only thing I had with me that day, which was my Bible. She saw angels, one with the face of my youngest child. She saw many many things, and some of the things, she said she could not tell me of.

She never believed in reincarnation, she was a believer in being saved through Jesus, she never had heard of any story about anything being below the Sphinx in Egypt....but like your experience, her experience changed her as well. Just in a different way then what your did. Kinda brought her to opposite conclusions about what she believed before.

Mabey, this was what she was ready for and what she needed. Mabey, there are levels we must learn through....before being ready to understand something greater.

I think all return to Thee...for this is what I have been shown. So all paths, are there to teach us what we are ready for....our inner being is only ready for so much...and we will be led to what we are in need of. I feel that you were in need of, believing that you did not need to carry the burden you had. So unconditional love for you...was given.

I cant say I agree with what you feel you know....for it was something I have walked already and it served the purpose for me that it was meant to. I needed that path to see what I see now. I dont think there is a wrong path...for all paths teach us what we are in need of.

I have studied many spiritual experiences and many NDE....I prefer to use them as a base of learning over a book. In many NDE....the being is greeted with what is going to comfort them. The 'light' being greets them in a form that wont frighten them and that they will be familiar with. But what is interesting, they are greeted with unconditional love. They are greeted with understanding of why they did the things they did and how they can learn from them. Everyone receives a personal revelation about their life and self.

Many Christians believe that I might be led by demons..and my mother was greeted by Satan. Just as though, spiritual people might say, the voice you heard was of a lower nature bounded to Earth, leading you in a way blindness because you were vulnerable. Some might even say...this was a ET that was really Yahweh....a alien that wants humankind as slaves and tried to keep us trapped here by having us believe in things that will keep our souls from finding our spiritual self, filling us with so much fear about a 'satan' that we then refuse to seek within us and seek a true personal path to God.

Personal experience are defiantly for the individual to figure....I would never try to tell you what your experience meant. But I beive that I too have been guided by Jesus and the HOly Spirit....and they show me opposite things of what you heard in that voice.

It makes the mystery, ever more mysterious.

I have been shown, that all will find their way, for that is the plan that God has made. I have been shown that through recycles, we learn and relearn. It is truth to me, just as though your experience is truth for you. I have been shown that much shame is put on the nature of God, for the nature of the image of God in the OT does not reflect a Holy and Divine nature. So no matter what experience I hear of another, of course I am going to go by my personal experience as truth, just as others do theirs.

Even though I am sure we will continue to cross paths and disagree...I hope you dont take it in personal offense. I thank you for sharing, your experience. It explains why you constantly quote the Bible.

My best to you and yours always
LV

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Thank's for your sincerity, you know I was thinking of you also and a few others that probably did'nt like pasting some sharp scripts and can tell you have some history with them but understand the implications - I hear an audible voice BEFORE I read anything in the New Testament that I had just started to open- that says He is Jesus and then find all that written about years later? written how long ago? how did death enter humanity?
what does that have to do with resurrection? who plots and plotted against Him?

They overcame him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony-Rev12.11

It is not good to eat too much honey, nor is it honorable to seek one's own honor.-Prov25.27


[edit on by No King but Jesus]

reply to post by EyeHeartBigfoot


Thank you. I was compelled to research this out and write this post because so many people are so brainwashed by religion, I am simply doing my small part to wake them up as best I can. Years of research has shown me that most of Christianity was made up by the Priests of the time, who were in collusion with the Monarchy. These power bases saw the people becoming educated in time, and wanted control and money to keep flowing into the church. Little did they know who was really behind it all, I submit it was the Reptilians who have been here much longer than humans have. These beings thrive in fear, and Christians live in a state of fear most of the time. Fear God, fear Satan, fear Sin, fear everything. Then they all go into a closed building and raise power by prayers, then send that power out to what they think is their Saviour and god, but I would bet is it something altogether different. I believe these Reptiles are still controlling our leaders, and everyone knows the strongest lobby is the church. They preach from the pulpit to vote for a person because he is a Christian, (GWB) and they have the ear of the president anytime they want. They hold raffles and other gambling things, make loads of money, have their building on prime real estate, and pay no taxes. Sweet deal, if you ask me.

What gets me is that you cannot get any intelligent conversation from a fundamentalist, all you can get is endless bible quotes, plainly showing the brainwashing is in place. And it gets bad too. I have a neighbor lady, an old woman of maybe 65. She will walk around and talk to children playing, telling them their parents are devils, and that they better get "right with Jesus," as she puts it. In her mind, Jesus wrote the entire bible and is the only God. He is coming to get her and the rest of the Christians, and punish the rest of us by burning us forever. She obviously has never read her own bible, and most Christians never read it, and is making stuff up as she goes along. One neighbor had to get a restraining order against this woman, she was scaring the kids. What drives a person to take in a little information from a preacher and think they know everything about it? How does anyone know the mind of God? Why isn't Jesus all over the history books if he existed? Why haven't Christians seen through the lies by now? Why do they constantly attempt to get me into their cult? Why do they tell me the beings I see are demons, and what is this based on?

Originally posted by EyeHeartBigfoot
reply to post by autowrench

 

I am just as angry as you and I can add very confused at times. I do not believe the Rapture is a true biblical event and feel it is used as a scare tactic for profit.


Regards,
thom

I will leave Auto Wrench to ANswer those questions, but I do feel your comment here is a basic question that deserves to be answered or discussed more fully.

You suggest it is a scare tactic. That is fair, in some sense, but I truely wonder if this was the true reason for this sort of Dogma to be embraced.

I have noted several indicators as to where the "Fly Away" doctrine of the Rapture occured and became the included within various sects of the "Church", but as note earlier, it seems to be found even within the Writings of Paul, (Well Luke actually wrote them since Paul was Blind, but thats another story). Paul confronted the Thesselonians in his second writing, which was addressing the "Gathering" to come on the day of the Lord's Return.

So it has been out there for a LONG LONG Time, but more recently said to have been designed by questionable charaters in the late 1800's.

Regardless, the truest reason for this mistaken or misunderstood matter may actually reside in the Lap of GOD HIMSELF.

In Revelations, it is quite clear to us today, what is being expressed. 1500 years ago, what Locust spit fire from it's mouth? Where would a King of the East amass a 200 Million Man Army on Horseback, to invade the Mid East? This Bear, What cave was it residing in?

Revelations would at best be Babel due to TIME. It was not their time to understand these things, despite Paul's attempts to do so some 2000 Years ago. Between his First Letter, and Second letter, the teaching became lost to the Thessalonians.

So, with this said, I would suggest until some 30 or 40 years ago, there was still NO UNDERSTANDING of these Prophets and thier teachings. "Let them with Eyes to See and Ears to Hear", sort of thing, that today, thanks to the out pouring of the Holy Spirit and the Lifting of that blindness, we now are afforded the chance to actually comprehend what these prophecies are about, and what they mean. Something NO ONE, since John the Revelator scribed Revelations has been able to say.

And what has been the "Church's" comments until most recently?

We as "christains" do not need to read or even discuss Daniel, or Revelations, and frankly let's not even look at CHRIST's words in Matthew 24. We can just take the needed words like, One will be Taken, the other "Left Behind".

Why would this be?

Because we will not be here. We will be Taken by the Rapture.

Well, it seems Ignorance was Bliss, but the Times are achanging, and places and topics such as this highlight those steps to throw back the covers and let the LIGHT shine upon what was once closed up.

I hope I did not bore you, and I trust you understand the remarks.

Ciao

Shane

I think a lot of people are angry at their religion and the lies told to them. And I do not blame anyone. It is time for everyone to open their eyes and know what is happening all over the world....people are at long last waking up! I will give a final thought on the Rapture thing, and then no more. This thread has run it's course.

I think there will be a rapture, of a sort. Does anyone know anything about the Reptilians, the Draco? I believe it will be they who come, they will project an image of Christ, and other Saviours and gather up all who will board their craft. The men will be enslaved, the women too, for sexual pleasure with the Reptilian males. the children, of course, be eaten on the long journey home. But that is just what I think, not one thing more.

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand


So, can you please show me, chapter and verse, where this man "Jesus," an English name, by the way, says he is God, or where someone else in the book says he is God? Also, can you please show me any history at all, save for the Roman Piso Family written New Testament, for the man you name as Jesus? As it happens, we have an excellent witness to events in Judaea and the Jewish diaspora in the first half of the first century AD: Philo of Alexandria (c25 BC-47 AD). Philo was an old man when he led an embassy from the Jews to the court of Emperor Gaius Caligula. The year was 39-40 AD. Philo clearly, then, lived at precisely the time that "Jesus of Nazareth" supposedly entered the world to a chorus of angels, enthralled the multitudes by performing miracles, and got himself crucified. Yet he said, wrote, of recorded not one thing mentioning "Jesus." Much as Josephus would, a half century later, Philo wrote extensive apologetics on the Jewish religion and commentaries on contemporary politics. About thirty manuscripts and at least 850,000 words are known to exist. So, if genuine historians from the period did not record it, where then did it come from? I'll tell you where....The New Testament! Only!

"The New Testament, the Church, and Christianity, were all the creation of the Calpurnius Piso family, who were Roman aristocrats. The New Testament and all the characters in it - Jesus, all the Josephs, all the Marys, all the disciples, apostles, Paul, and John the Baptist - are all fictional."
Abelard Reuchlin: from The True Authorship of the New Testament

"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has bee for us"
Pope Leo X (1513-1521)

Source

First of all, you have to realize that Jesus was a composite of different entities and the name was chosen several hundred years later at the Council of Nicea, wherein the entity Constantine ordered the various religious sects to come together and create a single religion for Rome, a Universal religion that incorporated all of the aspects of the various religions, so that all could accept and subscribe to it.

Who Wrote the New Testament? The Making of the Christian Myth

'THE PISO FAMILY IN THE NEW TESTAMENT'

The Dates and Times of the Book

So let us recap. There is not, nor ever was a man named "Jesus." The man people call "Jesus" is not the Creator. The entire New Testament was written by the Piso Family of Rome, probably paid to do so by Constantine, who wished to pacify the Christians of Rome and unity the Nation into one religion. Are we still on the same page, or has your blind faith covered your eyes and ears so that you hear only your preacher?

reply to post by Shane


Rapture was taken out of context with no knowledge of what the sermon was about,in that day to me does not suggest before! the holy bible is only a guide is is not the full complete bible! find out why we have a King James Bible and you will know where to find the complete bible and all it's teachings like this is is not the first world,Adam and Eve were not the first people living on the earth! Satin was banished to the earth with fallen angels,they where the so called aliens people think the bible talks about! Hell is not eternal,And reincarnation is something that happens! We have free thought like no other creation any place! And we have a big imagination to go with it !

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand


Your absolutely right about what the name Jesus means but if you read the bible thoroughly you will find that Jesus the persons real name is Emanuel. (spelling?) Also, the original sin concept is not in the bible, it was invented by one of the early popes hence Adam would not have known or even considered that. Many many people take the bible to literally. With all the translations that have occurred over time and things being left out and added and not to mention the many books of the apocrypha (remember MAN canonized the bible), people need to understand the messages in the bible and not take it word for word, that is why everyone gets so misconstrued.

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand


Your absolutely right about what the name Jesus means but if you read the bible thoroughly you will find that Jesus the persons real name is Emanuel. (spelling?) Also, the original sin concept is not in the bible, it was invented by one of the early popes hence Adam would not have known or even considered that. Many many people take the bible to literally. With all the translations that have occurred over time and things being left out and added and not to mention the many books of the apocrypha (remember MAN canonized the bible), people need to understand the messages in the bible and not take it word for word, that is why everyone gets so misconstrued.

reply to post by autowrench


So the Piso family wrote the Gospels found in the dead sea scrolls? Is that what your implying because it sounds like it.

hello

Originally posted by Shane
I would suggest a book by E. Raymond Capt called the Traditions of Glastonbury. There is more evidence to support a Child Name Jesus, came to the Isles with his Mother Mary, and Joseph, as well as his Uncle, Joseph of Aramethia, who operated Tin Mines in England, and where records of this are clear.
...
A short example of some of Capts theories

There are no such records, there is no such evidence.
Which is why neither your post, nor the web site you linked, gave any.


G

Originally posted by darkelf
Church fathers who taught the doctrine of imminency and the rapture:

Do they really?
Then why did you conspicuously fail to quote any?

Originally posted by darkelf
Papias (60-130)
Clement of Rome (90-100)
The Sherpherd of Hermas (96-150)
Ignatius of Antioch (98-117)
Barnabas (100)
The Didache (100-160)
Justin Martyr (110-165)
The Epistle of Barnabas (117-138)
Irenaeus (120-202)
Tertullian (145-220)
Hippolytus (185-236)
Cyprian (200-250)
Lactantius (260-330)

Can you actually give ONE example of them mentioning the rapture?
And not just some vague claim about the end.


G