James Carrion - "Announcing The Center for UFO Truth"

Originally posted by spacevisitor

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not
reply to post by spacevisitor

 

Spacevisitor.....
This might help to put Archirvion's commentary in this thread in context:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Maybe...maybe not, I did read his post in the link you provided, but that doesn’t change my opinion about what he said in his post in this thread, I really find that ATS unworthy.

Spacevisitor.....

I agree with you.....

That's why I sent you the link.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by cripmeister


Cripmeister…..

Perhaps Roswell just appealed to the "lunatic fringe", intentionally or otherwise.....thereby obfuscating & confounding everything.

I'm not really sure what you mean...?

What I was trying to say (in a very awkward manner) was that Roswell may have helped to attract the loonies into all of this.

Let's say Carrion finds proof that the Arnold sighting and Roswell were dis-information to cover up weapons testing. What impact do you think it will have on your own views on the subject?

Great question!

I don’t think it would change my views a great deal because I am undecided about both those cases, as per my continuing state of being perplexed about this whole area in general!

Kind regards
Maybe…maybe not

I haven't bothered expressing an opinion on James Carrion's "Center" so far, but in a nutshell my view is :

I don't have any problem with James Carrion investigating any theory that he wants, but I am somewhat dismaged by his failure to mention several previous researchers that have promoted or investigated the same hypothesis.

I think:

(a) If he knows about those researchers, as a matter of professional courtesy he should refer to the work and publications of those researchers.

(b) If he does not know about those researchers, then he should not be making statements about how "If CUT can not substantiate its theory, then it no longer remains a viable theory and can be discarded". If "CUT can not substantiate its theory" then the thoroughness of CUT's work could be questioned, rather than the theory abandoned. After all, quite a few researchers have looked into other theories and failed to substantiate them to their satisfaction (e.g. quite a few researchers in relation to the ETH) but the theory has still not been discarded.

I also have some concerns that James Carrion referred to a piece that I wrote a couple of years ago as a fairly obvious (and quickly admitted) April Fools joke in a manner that implied he thinks it was a serious article...

All the best,

Isaac

[edit on 6-7-2010 by IsaacKoi]

reply to post by IsaacKoi


Hi IsaacKoi, interesting points you have there.

Perhaps you can help me with this, James Carrion said in his blog the following.

My bucket list is really simple – I want to know the truth about three famous UFO cases – Maury Island, Kenneth Arnold’s sighting and Roswell, all occurring within the span of a single month in 1947. Why these three? Well because they all occurred around the same time that an allied top secret weapons project, on par with the atomic bomb, and possibly airborne was leaked to the news media.

Authenticated documents show that the two principal scientists involved in this alleged top secret project purposely used the media to spread disinformation about the project. Further research showed that the ‘new weapon’ was never airborne to begin with, but was part of a real top secret project that was killed off in 1945 but promoted by these scientists as active in 1947. Why? Good question.

The chronology is intriguing – Top Secret possibly airborne weapon leak first, Maury Island Incident next, then Kenneth Arnold’s sighting , and Roswell last. Seems like a lot happening within such a short period of time. Coincidence or not? Well most Ufologists seem to gloss over the compact chronology and chalk up the UFO events occurring so close together as just part of the 1947 ‘wave’ while ignoring the Top Secret weapon project data altogether.

followthemagicthread.blogspot.com...

Do you have any idea about what allied top secret weapons project he speaks here and where I can find if possible those authenticated documents he mentioned?

I have also another question for you and feel free to answer it.

I am just curious, but what is your opinion about the UFO/UAP phenomenon, do you find that the momentarily available information about that phenomenon is already strong enough to support the ETH as the only explanation for it?

On James Carrions blog I find the following interview of him.

In that interview I did read some very interesting answers he made back then on some questions asked by Milton Frank, President of the Brazilian UfologyCenter.

Monday, August 17, 2009

2006 - An Early Interview

What follows is an interview I did with a Brazilian UFO Researcher back in 2006 soon after I became the MUFON International Director. Although my basic opinions have not changed, the last three years have opened my eyes about UFOs in a way that I would have never been able to experience otherwise.

Interview by Milton Frank, President of the Brazilian UfologyCenter with James Carrion, the new Director of the Mutual UFO Network.

2 - What are the top 10 cases of World Ufology in your opinion?

Wow, this is tough, there are so many.

1. Roswell
2. Cash Landrum
3. Betty and Barney Hill Abduction
4. Delphos, Kansas landing
5. McMinnville Oregon photos
6. JAL Flight 1628
7. 1952 UFOs over Washington DC
8. 1976 Iran Incident
9. America West Airlines Flight 564
10. Shag Harbour.

3 - Do you really believe that Ufology starts after 1947, or do you believe that before that there were any UFO cases on Earth?

I think UFOs have been with us since ancient times.

If we posit that we are being visited by an extraterrestrial civilization, their interest in humanity and or the Earth could have started millennia ago.

Although there is no conclusive proof, we can see UFO like craft depicted in Renaissance paintings, cave drawings,etc as well as described in ancient written texts..

4 - What is the most important UFO case in the USA in your opinion? Why do you believe so?

Roswell, not because I necessarily agree with all of the conclusions drawn by other Ufologists, but because it singularly has probably generated the most public awareness of the UFO phenomenon..

5 - What are the most important points that a UFO researcher has to learn to do a good job?

You must have a skeptical but open mind. It is important that you don't let your personal beliefs cloud your objectivity. You must have a high tolerance for ambiguity and be willing to change your views if the evidence is overwhelmingly in conflictwith those views..

6 - What would you say to an young man that intends to be a UFO researcher?

Second to the mystery of life after death, which we will all be privy to once we pass on, researching the UFO mystery is the most exciting and rewarding journey of exploration one can embark on while here on earth.

Think of the implications for humanity of discovering the truth of "higher intelligences", especially if this causes us to stop seeing ourselves as Brazilians or Americans and instead as homo sapiens.

I look at the constant violence and suffering experienced today by a large proportion of the human populace, the famine, political andreligious wars, rampant disregard for human rights, and wonder that if this higher intelligence and extraordinary technologieswere accessible to all of humanity, how the world's problems could be lessened or eliminated.

At the same time, I worry aboutthe personal agendas these higher intelligences and lower intelligences (our governments) may have which may have little regard for the plight of humanity. MUFON's mission really sums it up: "The Scientific Study of UFOs for the benefit of humanity".

If you are an altruistic individual that wants to better the plight of the world, studying UFOs is as important a contribution to our future as is any endeavor of science..

9 - What is your opinion about ufology's future?

The first 60 years of Ufology has been one of trying to grasp what the spectrum of UFO activity really encompasses.

What started out as a nuts and bolts belief in extraterrestrial craft has expanded to craft occupants, then to the alien abduction phenomenon, cattle and human mutilations, crop circles, etc.

Wehave no idea what strange twist we may experience next. I envy the "Ghost Busters" who go about their business without having to worry about the meddling of world governments cloakingtheir own activities through disinformation campaigns and denials.

As Ufologists we find ourselves fighting battles on two fronts; the phenomenon itself refusing to show itself on demand or through prediction (hence modern science's refusal to deal with its ambiguity) and the world's governments who have their own selfish reasons for concealing the truth of what they know.

We have gathered data for 60 years and I think the raw data has a truth to reveal if we analyze the data in ways we have not attempted before.

I believe that those in "the know" are afraid of what we may discover ourselves from the raw data and will stop at nothing to keep introducing red herrings to distract us from this analysis.

FOLLOWTHEMAGICTHREAD.BLOGSPOT.COM...

Originally posted by spacevisitor
Hi IsaacKoi, interesting points you have there.

Perhaps you can help me with this, James Carrion said in his blog the following.
(snip)

... an allied top secret weapons project, on par with the atomic bomb, and possibly airborne was leaked to the news media.

followthemagicthread.blogspot.com...

Do you have any idea about what allied top secret weapons project he speaks here

James Carrion is referring to a project that was discussed in various newspapers in June 1947.

Carrion addressed those newspaper reports in some detail at pages 224 onwards of the MUFON Symposium publication online at:
scilib.ucsd.edu...

(Carrion clearly has the same project in mind in that publication as he has in mind in his blog posting. His comments on those newspaper articles repeatedly includes a phrase similar to that used in his blog posting above, about the relevant project being "on par with the atomic bomb" or "rivaled the atomic bomb" or "not the atomic bomb but equally destructive").

Two people mentioned in the newspaper articles (Snodgrass and Leech) are now known to have been involved in a project known as Project Seal.

Carrion appears to:

(a) presume that the project mentioned in the press articles was Project Seal;

(b) consider that the reported quotations from Snodgrass and Leech contain "misinformation" because they were not entirely consistent with the contents of the Final Report of Project Sign (which is now publically available).

Carrion sets out tables at pages 236-241 highlighting some supposed differences between the press reports about Project Seal and the contents of a report available about Project Seal.

and where I can find if possible those authenticated documents he mentioned?

The document Carrion appears to be referencing in the blog post you quote is the Final Report of Project Seal by Professor Leech dated 1950 (i.e. the report that he uses to compare and contrast with the press reports about a secret project).

Project Seal is summarised, for example, on Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org...

Project Seal ( also known as the Tsunami bomb) was a programme by the New Zealand military to develop a weapon that could create destructive tidal waves. This weapon was tested in Whangaparaoa off the coast of Auckland between 1944-1945. The experiments were conducted by Professor Thomas Leech. British and US defence chiefs were eager to see it developed and it was considered as important as the atomic bomb. The weapon was only tested using small explosions and never on a full scale. If it were to be fully produced and used, it would have created huge amounts of damage to coastal cities; it could have even been used with a nuclear charge. After 4000 test explosions over a seven-month period, none of which generated an appreciable tsunami, the project was closed down when it was determined that there were errors in the theoretical basis of the plan. The top secret documents on Project Seal were only declassified in 1999. A copy of the declassified report is available to the public at the Scripps Institue Library in San Diego, California. Portions of the report can be viewed online at www.centerforufotruth.org... in the Shared Documents section. [1] [2].

As mentioned by the Wikipedia article (large parts of which appear to have been written by, or based on work by, James Carrion) parts of the report is available on his website - which appears to be down for maintenance at the moment and I can't remember the precise link.

The cover, and some extracts, are also included in the Mufon Symposium paper that I mentioned above.

... do you find that the momentarily available information about that phenomenon is already strong enough to support the ETH as the only explanation for it?

Short answer - no.

All the best,

Isaac



[edit on 6-7-2010 by IsaacKoi]

reply to post by IsaacKoi


Thanks for your very interesting and informative reply, I go dig into it.
Also thanks for answering my question.

Regards.

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


Yes I think so to. If it wasn't for Roswell I doubt we'd have the Disclosure Project and Exo-politics.


reply to post by IsaacKoi


Thanks for your input on this, much appreciated

Just whatever happened with this? Is he still doing this thing or what?
I for one was excited about this until I saw the website.