I called BP with a 'fix it' idea :)

this is actually a very sad subject to me. tens of thousands of inventors/engineers have submited ideas and bp is refusing to listen to any outside ideas. the largest problem with this oil spill is bp it self. if the goverment was to take bp out of the picture this problem would be solved already. bp isnt looking to repair this leak they are looking to catch as much oil as they can to sell it. and yes i to have submited an idea as well.

[edit on 26-6-2010 by mrlaughingman]

so I check my Email and I got this reply note back from BP.


"Thank you so much for taking the time to think about and submit your proposed solution regarding the Horizon incident. Your submission has been reviewed for its technical merits. Unfortunately, the team has determined that your idea cannot be applied under the very challenging and specific operating conditions we face. All of us on the Horizon Support Team appreciate your thoughts and efforts.

Sincerely yours,
Horizon Support Team


I check the time and they sent this note back to me in under 2 hours of my initial submission..........so I find it rather ODD that with all the ideas being sent to them they are reading them ALL and thinking about the plausibility of the ideas with full attention in such a short turn around time.
I would have thought AT LEAST that they would give it 72 hours......unless of course the idea is to plug the hole with BP lawyers or some such silliness that is not an actual feasible plan.......

They sure must have thought my idea idiotic to have tossed it aside so fast.

Maybe it had something to do with my plan was about shutting the well down entirely instead of allowing for BP to continue to suckle its tit.
Heck I dunno.......
I didn't really think my idea was THAT ridiculous, but I guess it was.

"sigh"

MAYBE they do NOT really want to fix this at all.......

Art Bell is on C2C tonight and the topic is this disastrous oil nightmare.

Dang ATS does not have a 'crying face' smiley icon for me to use....I think it would be used ALLOT on this BP oil mess topic. Probably entire posts of nothing BUT crying faces.....

I think Mrlaughingman's post right above this one is RIGHT ON THE MONEY.....the lightning FAST turn around time on the 'thanks but no thanks' note kinda flippen PROVES that.

[edit on 26-6-2010 by theRiverGoddess]

reply to post by theRiverGoddess


I worked this year in a huge World Congress, and should reply thousands of e-mails. Of course I wasn't alone. First of all, the e-mail you received is an automatic reply. And yes, it is impossible to review for them in 2 hours. Unfortunatly, it seems that there are a couple of people assigned to answer to e-mails without reading them and this is another PR rubbish.

reply to post by theRiverGoddess

Hello theRiverGoddess,

I think there is some merit in your idea. It's the practical problems that are the challenge.

Titanium is incredibly tough stuff to work with, both literally and figuratively. It requires far more specialized treatment than steel. (It's also incredibly expensive but frankly that should not be an issue considering how much they are losing each day anyway.) So, a place would have to be found that has that much titanium in its stocks and can also engineer such long rods.

Even if steel is used there are very few places in the entire world that could possibly make and then handle a straight rod that is half a mile long. It's possible that a special production line would have to be set up to deal with this task.

Even if the rods could be made that length -- whether titanium or steel -- they would then have to be transported. You can imagine how complex it would be to do that. They couldn't be carried by road because the rods can't be bent. The only likely method would be to airlift them, perhaps using dirigibles (airships) that can lift heavy loads. These do exist but it would still be a very tricky problem to keep such long rods straight while they're being lifted and carried.

Solid steel rods half a mile long would be very heavy. How heavy depends on their cross-section (diameter). So a ship would be needed that has the capacity to lower such a mass. However, seeing as the BOP weighs around 400 tons and it had to be lowered into place, they might have a ship available or nearby that could do the lowering.

The second problem is, even if the rods can be brought out to the site on a barge, how do you lift a rod that long so that (a) it doesn't get bent when you lift it (b) it can be raised vertically past its balance point so it will be vertical? It's possible but it would need a crane with a very long boom.

Let's say all those problems are overcome and we have a ship on location that can lift then lower these rods down to the leak site. Now the problem is to position them one at a time by sliding them inside a BOP that is already tilted, and getting them down through its roughly 60 foot length and into the actual well without hitting the sides of anything and causing more damage.

All this has to be done against the pressures of the oil that is belching out at around 20,000 psi or even more, and any fine adjustments have to be done only by ROVs at a depth of 5000 feet. These ROVs are not hugely powerful machines. They don't have enormous amounts of thrust available. However, in theory, if the rods were lowered with extreme care and the sea conditions were very calm (vitally important in such a delicate operation), it might be possible to get them into position.

The rods would them have to be held in place until everything's set up, and with each rod that's added the effective pressure coming out the leak increases. (It's like what happens when you partly close the nozzle on a garden hose. The more you close it the further it will spray if the same volume of water per second is coming out.)

If the rods can all be held in place, and then they are to be permanently fixed by welding, we get to the next problem. Welding in 5000 feet of sea water present its own problems. Inert gas welders would have to be used and at the same time, the oil and gas coming out of the well would have to be shielded from the welding process. Also, the welding will temporarily weaken the are that's being welded and as it's only steel pipe, it could snap off.

But here's the final problem. As the BOP is tilted and the strain on its base plate where it bolts to the well head is already enormous, it would not take much to crack that joint. By plugging the BOP with steel rod it could be enough to literally blow the lower joint, and in that case the whole project will fail.

However, having said all that I'll also say this:

You have come up with an idea and there might be something in it that they can use. It doesn't matter if your own idea may be defeated by the number of practical difficulties. What matters is that you have offered them something that could lead their thinking in a different direction. Engineers are taught to do things a certain way. You have given them a way that is simply outside of anything they are likely to have thought of themselves, and for that I thank you. S&F!

Mike


[edit on 26/6/10 by JustMike]

reply to post by theRiverGoddess


You get an A for effort in my book. I doubt seriously BP would consider it, Titanium is incredibly expensive and I'll bet they have already put your idea in the shredder. I for one believe after the behavior of BP and the Obama Administration this Oil Spill was planned and generated by Design.

reply to post by theRiverGoddess


You have the POWER!

Good for you!

Yea I had a really good dream how the BP ceo could take the top hat and shove it where the sun dont shine using titanium rods.

I got the exact same email reply thanking me.

I said YOU ARE WELCOME

reply to post by theRiverGoddess


Way to go River Goddess.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2d309136108a.gif[/atsimg]

Sounds doable to me.

You had this in a dream?

Perhaps someone was communicating this idea to you?

As Spartan said, make sure you can prove it was your idea, if it works BP should pay you something (BIG)!

Wonder if you could throw a patent on it.

www.uspto.gov...

www.google.com...


I was channeled to use this information to seal the leaks in the casing

known as a ( Finger Trap Sleeve). This is similar to the Chinese Finger

Trap you played with as a child. You first pile drive a titanium or

reinforced steel casing on the outside of the existing casing that

today has 5 or 6 fractures in the existing well casing. You must have steps or rungs on

the outside of the pipe casing in this design #,+,O and X for the pile driver to grab hold of as it

drives the outer casing over the original casing. Similar to a one pole

ladder for the pile driver has something to grab a hold of to drive it

downward into the Gulf bed. As the outside ladder rungs are ready to hit the

Gulf surface bed they are taken off or cut off to keep the resistance

down from the casing entering beneath the surface over the original

well casing. The top of the outer casing has to be left open at first to

allow the oil to flow into tankers on the surface and to be captured by

skimmers. First problem solved, and now for the 2nd major problem to

restrict the flow of the oil escaping from the now new larger

overlapping casing end opening. You use the giant in length (Finger

Trap Sleeve) and fit it over tightly to the outer casing from the floor of the Gulf to

the opening where the oil is spewing. The pile driver can

not hit the top of the outside casing as it is spewing oil because the

pressure would stop the pile driver from pushing the casing

downward. This is why 2 outside sectional continuous pipes must be

used to pile drive the outer casing into the depths of the Gulf floor.


Remember the micro grooves or threaded outside exposed casing

is where the (Finger Trap Sleeve) holds onto the casing and Lets call

it your first Index finger. Now the 2nd Index finger which is a solid

threaded or long micro grooved ribbed pipe or stiff solid carbon fiber

pipe is inserted downward into the overlapping (Finger Trap Sleeve)

from above. At first you will have tremendous blow by but as the top

solid threaded or grooved pipe is pulled upward it cinches up and

closes off the 20,000 to 100,000 PSI pressure oil leak like a noose.

The (Finger Trap Sleeve) will have to be pushed upward by the

pressure or pulled upward by a crane on a platform or large ship once

lowered in place. This is the reason they want the oil contained 1 mile

down to disperse the oil, toxic gases and compounds from blowing

out 1 mile into the air making it even worse then it is believe it or not.

^Y^

[edit on 27-6-2010 by amari]

reply to post by theRiverGoddess


Kudo's for your fortitude. Let's hope, whether its your idea or another's that the answer happens soon.

OMG, like, they should totally just, like, close the pipe, right, cuz, like, that is so, like obvious, buffy!

second line?

reply to post by theRiverGoddess


Actually, if you will take the time to read some of 'jefferybinladen's' threads and posts, you will find he is one of the most informed and helpful among us. That is, for those of us who like our science with actually numbers, not vague 'solutions' channeled by uoiji board.

To assume the BP is just doesnt have smart guys working ion the problem seems awfully naive. If you had a valid, workable solution, BP would certainly accept it, but just because YOU are convinced it is a simple solution doesnt mean it is. The TOP guys in the field are doing what they can. indeed, it is too little, but that is not because the information is just not presented to them. It's because there is NO SOLUTION.

What tales are mind tells us when it cant accept there is NO SOLUTION.

Great idea, and would have likely worked in the early days of the leak, if it had been attempted.

The problem is that the pipe is weakened and breached near the sea floor, the sea floor is cracked and porous (soft) around the BOP now and a top plug would only temporarily stop the oil flow until the pressure builds enough and the oil simply breaks through, pushes up and around what is left of the original well and your fancy plug.

The only hope of stopping this now is a deep angle relief well (very deep), an accurate deep hit and opening of the pipe and plug it there and if that plug fails use either high explosives at that deep relief well intersect, or possibly a nuke to seal it off.

That isn't going to happen before august... at the earliest.

Excellent Thread!

I love it when people try to think of how to solve the worlds problems... Parallel Mental Multitasking facilitated by the Free Exchange of Ideas on an unrestricted communications system.

As an addendum to your Idea, I have a further suggestion that may help get the ball rolling.


The original drill head was somewhat larger diameter than the drill "Pipe" itself...

So, if we created a "Pipe" that consisted of a large diameter inner chamber, and several surrounding pipes that opened to the outside diameter of the pipe...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/334034ab7f09.gif[/atsimg]

Then the pipe could be inserted into the well, allowing oil to pass through the center, and the skirt pipes, so that pressure is not dramatically increased.


Once the pipe is positioned at the proper depth (below the low density sediment layers, and deep into the Solid Rock...

Then the oil can be drawn through the Central pipe (with multiple parallel high capacity pumps) at a rate faster than the oil pressure is actually pushing the oil out.

This may create a relatively lower pressure around the outside diameter of the pipe, and the well-bore channel...

This may then be filled with mud or cement through the outer (planetary) pipes.

The reduction of pressure through the well-bore would prevent excess oil escaping, and provide suitable conditions for re laying the cement casing (the cement would then flow through any exposed cracks in the well-bore casing (where it is leaking into the seabed) and effectively seal them once the concrete plug "Sets"




-Edrick

The saddest thing about all of this is how it really PROVES that they are just not as interested in fixing this problem as they are claiming.


I would like to be clear that I did not really think I had the do all end all cure, I just had an idea that I found interesting.......and I thought they might be able to use it somehow.....but obviously there 'idea central' is not much more than smoke & mirror subterfuge .......

welly well well......check out the HORIZON TEAM as they sent me yet another email telling me of my failure.
The note reads as:


"Thank you for your submission to the Alternative Response Technology (ART) process for the Deepwater Horizon MC252 incident. Your submission has been reviewed for its technical merits.

It has been determined that your idea falls into one of the following ART categories: Already Considered/Planned, Not Feasible, or Not Possible, and therefore will not be advanced for further evaluation. To date, we have received over 80,000 submissions with each submission receiving individual consideration and priority based on merit and need.

BP and Horizon Deepwater Unified Command appreciate your contribution and interest in responding to this incident.


Thank you very much,
Horizon Response Team




Ya ok GREAT........WHATEVA.......ppppft
I thought they were already DONE telling me what a lame idea I had.......I AM however rather surprised they seem to have given it another look see, enough so as to send me another TO BAD SO SAD letter.
Nuttin to see here move along......

[edit on 29-6-2010 by theRiverGoddess]

I think it is admirable that you have given BP an idea. While, I think your idea has nottechnical merit as far as being possible, its more than most people have done. Seems far more than the federal government. They have only managed to shake-down BP for $20 billion, and thats the big accomplishment.

[edit on 30-6-2010 by CornerTech]

Good idea! But how will this stop the oil that is coming from cracks in the sea floor?

reply to post by earthdude


You see...it is my understanding that the oil coming from cracks on the seafloor is coming from a blow out hole in the well pipe that is about a quarter mile down under ground........SO the fact that my idea has such LONG half mile or so rods would go far beyond this blown out hole and close that up as tight and nice as it would cap off the main seafloor level area that is visibly gushing.
That is WHY I figured the rods had to be so dam long...........and you would NOT need a half mile long crane to maneuver the rods as they could be started down at an angle and once in the water proper the crane could hold it by an end and it would point straight down from there......

Since they have the ability to dig a well at this depth I figure they would also be able to pound the last few rods into the pipe, creating this metal plug.......but of course this would close down this well entirely.


Ya ya I KNOW.....I have already been told its a lame idea blah blah blah but I thought it 'might' work and so I sent the idea in....it did not hurt me one little bit to do so......so why not?