Re: Groom Lake landings on Runway 14?

Just a quick question here.

I noticed that runway 14-32 has only one taxiway leading just directly off the runway other than having to go all the way to the end when landing on 14...

So, when the winds are from the south and they have to land on runway 14 instead of 32, then do they just go all the way to the end to exit the runway?

Because if you notice on Google Earth, when they need to land on runway 14, the very first taxiway that leads from the runway is very short from the actual Touchdown Zone for aircraft to stop unless they land at the stall speed with full reverse thrusts.

So, even if the there are strong winds from the southeast (140), do they still need to land on runway 32 if thats the case?

Because it will take a very long time to go all the way at the other end in order to exit the runway if they cannot make it to the first taxiway if they land on runway 14.
And hence, it will take a lot of time to just taxi to the ramp....

And from the janet recordings that are posted here, they do indeed land on runway 14 sometimes...

And, can aircraft use runways 12-30 and the CLOSED runway 14R-32L to taxi onto and from runway 14-32 (which is the active one)?

Thx in advance



[edit on 25-6-2010 by darpa999]

[edit on 25-6-2010 by darpa999]

reply to post by darpa999

And, can aircraft use runways 12-30 and the CLOSED runway 14R-32L to taxi onto and from runway 14-32 (which is the active one)?

Well, I haven't seen the Google Earth photos, but from your description...

It's not uncommon, in order to save money (?) to have minimal taxiways...we're talking about a quasi-military installation here, certainly not your normal 'military base' though...just a way to get workers in/out.

Of course, they can taxi on a closed runway. When they have to land on 14 it's a simple matter to just do a one-eighty on the runway, and back-taxi to the turnoff. (Actually is the case at some lesser-traveled civilian passenger airports, around the World...'third'-world, that is).

Turning radius of the B-737 is quite small, easy on a 150-foot wide runway...a cinch on 200 feet. For the 737-200 (like the Janet airplanes) the radius is about 58 feet.

You said there are links to ATC for Janets? Can you post them?

Thanks.

I dont have them handy, but if you do a search here, Im sure it will show up.

reply to post by darpa999


I'll try...

I menat to add, above -- when they built that particular runway complex they probably knew that the winds would usually prevail from the Northwest, and it would be a rarity to need Runway 14. Hence, they saved time/money with a minimalist approsch to laying excess pavement.

BTW...I also forgot to mention that in airline operations (obviously more restrictive than what Janet is doing!) a ten-knot tailwind is acceptable, as a maximum (dry runway). Given how long the 14/32 runway is, and knowing the B-737 as I do, I wouldn't doubt that they land downwind often, with little regard...UNLESS it's really howling wind.

It's not a significantly longer taxi distance than at some other bases. The runways are lined up to take advantage of the prevailing winds and the layout of the base was largely dictated by the location of the U-2 runway which became a taxiway when the permanent airbase was constructed in 1960. The relatively new runway 12-30 used to be South Delta Taxiway and can still be used as such.

Thanks Shadowhawk.

You seem to be rather familiar with this since I have been reading your posts on here in regards to Groom Lake and its surrounding areas.

So, which runway is used primarily for landings on Janet flights?
Is it 32 or 14?

What do you mean by the U-2 runway? Is that the former 14R-32L runway? And if that became the taxiway, is there taxiway lights if an aircraft decided to use that former runway as a taxiway during the night hours?

And, are you telling us that runway 12-30 can also be used for taxiing to the ramps?

Thanks.







[edit on 25-6-2010 by darpa999]

The original Watertown Airstrip was runway 16-34, running due north-south. It became Delta Taxiway when the first runway 14-32 (now known as 14R-32L) was built for the OXCART program. South Delta Taxiway was added in the late 1980s when runway 14-32 was extended about 4,000 feet to the south because the north end was prone to flooding.

In April 2001, South Delta Taxiway was marked as Runway 12-30 and runway 14R-32L was closed in its entirety. Runway 12-30 can indeed be used as a taxiway for access to and from the Southend ramp.

Most flights use runway 32 because of the prevailing winds. Runway 14 is used when winds are from the opposite direction.

Thanks for the response.

Just to verify.

So runway 12-30 CAN BE used as a taxiway?
Yes or No?

Thanks again.



[edit on 26-6-2010 by darpa999]

reply to post by weedwhacker


Hi weedwhacker,

Have provided a link to gariac's highly informative Lazyg site;

www.lazygranch.com...

Peace!

Ok, to make things simple for us, I compiled an image here below.
I made a purple line to represent the taxiing segment or route to the parking ramps if incase an aircraft lands on runway 14 and exit off the other end which would be RWY 32.

So, can this taxiing route be used in the image here marked here using the purple line?

img704.imageshack.us...

If any of you have better diagrams for a complete taxiing routes, please post it.

Thanks.

Sorry, I thought I made it clear. Runway 12-30 can serve as a taxiway to depart runway 14 or to access runway 32 from the Southend ramps.

Just wasn't really sure if it was legal for aircraft to use runways for taxiing.

But as in this case for Groom, and the way the base is constructed, I guess that makes it OK.

Thanks.



[edit on 26-6-2010 by darpa999]

reply to post by darpa999


"legal"???

Given the location, why would they bother with 'legality'??

But, of course...runways can be taxiied on...I mentioned that in my first post.

Extreme care and vigilance must be exercized, though...aware pilots will be very alert IF it is a currently active runway they are using...

Remember the Tenerife tragedy? In 1977.



[edit on 26 June 2010 by weedwhacker]