they stopped the six months drillin' ban!, page 1

posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 02:14 AM

link

to translate: they don't give a damn the world might end or the planet be severly damaged, it's not an excuse good enough to stop drilling. i am very angered.

www.reuters.com...

the judge's name is martin feldman, so maybe ended things with saying "could be worse, could be raining".

who-me?

posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 02:27 AM

link

This is a good thing. I like everyone else here am a consumer. Doesn't matter if you like it or not, you are too.
If drilling isn't resumed then the next inevitable result is a rise in oil prices. (I can hear the tears and screams already) Additionally the US will have to import more oil thus sending more of its hard earned cash overseas to the countries that are still drilling. Keep drilling or get left behind and pay for it in the long run. I've said it before, TPTB know that oil is down there. It's coming out of the ground one way or another, like it or not. That is the reality.

All the hippies and tree huggers that want us to just stop using oil are hypocrites and living in la la land. This oil free utopia you dream of cannot and will not exist until all the economically viable and recoverable oil has been used. Only then will alternate energies become main stream out of necessity not kindness to the planet or any other green agenda.

[edit on 23/6/2010 by who-me?]

defcon5

posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 02:29 AM

link

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

While that may not sound like a good thing, its better for us that they stopped it. Originally, the ban had been on all oil platforms, which would have raised our gas prices up close to $6-$8 per gallon for up to five years. That would have bankrupt most American citizens long before any alternative fuel could be brought into production en mass.

There are many shallow water rigs that follow the rules and drill quite safely out in the Gulf, there are also rigs out there, which have already safely finished drilling and are simply pumping out fuel. Shallow water drilling has gone on for a long time and has a very high safety record. This one incident basically stemmed from one companies refusal to follow safe practices, and because they were drilling in deep water beyond their ability to control if something went wrong.

If they had forced all the rigs to shut down, their companies would have moved them to foreign shores, and the would not have come back to the Gulf for up to 5 years. If you can afford to pay $6 to $8 per gallon for five years, then that is great, but most people here cannot.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

who-me?

posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 02:36 AM

link

reply to post by defcon5

I agree with everything you said except "one companies".

This whole thing is the accumulation of errors cause by a multitude of companies and organizations.
To list just some but not all,

Transocean,
Halliburton,
Mineral Management Service,
The US Government,
BP.

Blaming this on one company "BP" as ATS appears to be doing quite aggressively or entity is incorrect and wrong.

[edit on 23/6/2010 by who-me?]

defcon5

posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 02:57 AM

link

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

reply to post by who-me?

No, actually it comes down to one company.

Halliburton was only there to cast plugs. They knew those plugs had to be properly pressure tested to make sure that they cemented in correctly. Until those test where preformed the heavy mud had to be left in to keep the pressure off of them. BP overrode the decision to leave the drilling mud in.

Transoceans only problem was that their Bop was having issues. The Bop is a failsafe device that is meant as a last ditch effort to stop the pressure from coming back up the pipe, it's not a first line of defense, the drilling mud is. Even then the BOP is only designed to withstand, I believe its 15,000 – 20,000 PSI, the well was reaching up to 60,000 PSI, which meant even if the BOP had closed correctly, it would have simply been blown right off the sea floor by the pressure below it.

This article focuses on identifying and completing the GAP technologies necessary for the design and testing of a deepwater 20,000-psi subsea BOP stack. Design methodologies employed in the design and testing of the BOP will be identified, and GAP technologies that had to be addressed will be outlined.

That leaves only one group responsible for what occurred on that day, the BP management who argued against the rest of the drilling crew that the drilling mud was to be removed despite them receiving questionable results from the pressure tests preformed on Halliburton’s cement plugs.

In case you missed the hearing on the Deepwater Atlantis, BP has been pulling some very shady things on that rig as well. They are operating out there, and they do not even have their design documents approved. According to the testimony the other day, BP is the only company who is currently operating in such a fashion.

I will agree with you that the MMS should shoulder some of the responsibility, as they should have never given BP the license to operate in the manner in which they were to begin with. However, there is nothing that the MMS would have been able to do that would have stopped that BP manager from forcing his drilling crew to remove the drilling mud on that day. The MMS does not send someone out to oversee day to day operations on every single oil rig.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

who-me?

posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 03:08 AM

link

reply to post by defcon5

How can you contradict me saying it indeed does come down too one company, then go on to cite three of the four examples I listed and then elaborate further on their involvement?

So you agree then, its not just BP right?

defcon5

posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 03:43 AM

link

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

reply to post by who-me?

What did Halliburton do wrong? Nothing.
The plugs they put in need to be tested (its cement under pressure in water, you need to ensure that it filled in and sealed correctly), and BP overrode those tests, not Halliburton.

What did Transocean do wrong? Nothing.
They tried to stop BP from removing the drilling mud, but got over ridden by the BP management. The BOP would not have stopped that spill even if it had been 100% functional.

What did the MMS do wrong on that day? Nothing.
They do not oversee the day-to-day operation on the well, which what was going on when the explosion happened.

What did BP do wrong?
They removed the only thing keeping the pressure down on the well after pressure tests on Halliburton’s plugs came back as inconclusive, despite knowing that the BOP may not be able to stop the oil if there was an blowout, and against the recommendations of the drilling personal from Transocean.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

ofhumandescent

posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 04:00 AM

link

By CURT ANDERSON and MICHAEL KUNZELMAN, Associated Press Writers Curt Anderson And Michael Kunzelman, Associated Press Writers – 39 mins ago
NEW ORLEANS – The Louisiana judge who struck down the Obama administration's six-month ban on deepwater oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico has reported extensive investments in the oil and gas industry, according to financial disclosure reports. He's also a new member of a secret national security court.

U.S. District Judge Martin Feldman, a 1983 appointee of President Ronald Reagan, reported owning less than $15,000 in stock in 2008 in Transocean Ltd., the company that owned the sunken Deepwater Horizon drilling rig.

Feldman overturned the ban Tuesday, saying the government simply assumed that because one rig exploded, the others pose an imminent danger, too.

The White House promised an immediate appeal. The Interior Department had imposed the moratorium last month in the wake of the BP disaster, halting approval of any new permits for deepwater projects and suspending drilling on 33 exploratory wells.

Interior Secretary Ken Salazar said in a statement late Tuesday that within the next few days he would issue a new order imposing a moratorium that eliminates any doubt it is needed and appropriate.

Several companies that ferry people and supplies and provide other services to offshore rigs argued that the moratorium was arbitrarily imposed after the April 20 explosion that killed 11 workers and blew out a well 5,000 feet underwater. It has spewed anywhere from 67 million to 127 million gallons of oil.

Feldman's 2008 financial disclosure report — the most recent available — also showed investments in Ocean Energy, a Houston-based company, as well as Quicksilver Resources, Prospect Energy, Peabody Energy, Halliburton, Pengrowth Energy Trust, Atlas Energy Resources, Parker Drilling and others. Halliburton was also involved in the doomed Deepwater Horizon project.

Feldman did not respond to requests for comment and to clarify whether he still holds some or all of these investments.

He's one of many federal judges across the Gulf Coast region with money in oil and gas. Several have disqualified themselves from hearing spill-related lawsuits and others have sold their holdings so they can preside over some of the 200-plus cases

Although Feldman ruled in favor of oil interests Tuesday, one expert said his reasoning appeared sound because the six-month ban was overly broad.

"There's been some concern that he is biased toward the industry, but I don't see it in this opinion," said Tim Howard, a Northeastern University law professor who also represents businesses and people claiming economic losses in several spill-related lawsuits. "They overreacted and just shut an industry down, rather than focusing on where the problems are."

That was what Feldman essentially said in his ruling, writing that the blanket moratorium "seems to assume that because one rig failed and although no one yet fully knows why, all companies and rigs drilling new wells over 500 feet also universally present an imminent danger."

Josh Reichert, managing director of the Pew Environment Group, said the ruling should be rescinded if Feldman still has investments in companies that could benefit.

"If Judge Feldman has any investments in oil and gas operators in the Gulf, it represents a flagrant conflict of interest," Reichert said.

Feldman's ruling prohibits federal officials from enforcing the moratorium until a trial is held. He wrote: "If some drilling equipment parts are flawed, is it rational to say all are? Are all airplanes a danger because one was? All oil tankers like Exxon Valdez? All trains? All mines? That sort of thinking seems heavy-handed, and rather overbearing."

At least two major oil companies, Shell and Marathon, said they would wait to see how the appeals play out before resuming drilling.

news.yahoo.com...

defcon5

posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 04:07 AM

link

reply to post by ofhumandescent

As long as they only ban deep water drilling agree with the ban, its when they talk about banning shallow water drilling, and pumping, along with deep water drilling that I have a problem with it. When the Obama Administration first came out with this, it was a knee-jerk reaction and did not specify only the deep water sites. We simply do not have the technology and oversight to be messing with deep water sites at this point, IMHO.

who-me?

posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 04:13 AM

link

Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by who-me?

What did Halliburton do wrong?

See Here
Investigators delving into the possible cause of the massive gulf oil spill are focusing on the role of Houston-based Halliburton Co., the giant energy services company, which was responsible for cementing the drill into place below the water. The company acknowledged Friday that it had completed the final cementing of the oil well and pipe just 20 hours before the blowout.

What did Transocean do wrong?

See Here.
A disturbing account from another survivor of the Deepwater Horizon suggests that Transocean, the owner of the rig, deliberately isolated the survivors from contact with the outside world for more than a day and a half in what the survivor suggested was an attempt to sign away liability.

What did the MMS do wrong on that day?

Really do you thinks only April 20th counts? Aside from that they thought that "Deepwater Horizon was Award-Winningly SAFE'
See Here.
Even though they were US government mandated and responsible for safety inspections.

What did BP do wrong?
They removed the only thing keeping the pressure down on the well after pressure tests on Halliburton’s plugs came back as inconclusive, despite knowing that the BOP may not be able to stop the oil if there was an blowout, and against the recommendations of the drilling personal from Transocean.

Agreed.

There are many many more issues and transgressions carried out which can be found without much effort and a little research. However the majority ignore them.

Here we are encouraged to deny ignorance yes? I will continue to do so. Hopefully I'll inspire more to follow suit.

My main point being that the general consensus of society at large is using BP as the scape goat, this I feel is wrong. I know they are responsible to a large extent. But not 100%.

mutante

posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 05:17 AM

link

you see, i repair bikes for work, move by bike and the motorcar is just for fun in the weekends. so, i'm not interested at all in oil prices.
you can point it on tree huggers, truth is we know the clean tech exist but no one wants to eliminate oil.
so keep on spilling and killing the seas.

by the way, i am not a consumer, i am a human being.

Originally posted by who-me?
This is a good thing. I like everyone else here am a consumer. Doesn't matter if you like it or not, you are too.
If drilling isn't resumed then the next inevitable result is a rise in oil prices. (I can hear the tears and screams already) Additionally the US will have to import more oil thus sending more of its hard earned cash overseas to the countries that are still drilling. Keep drilling or get left behind and pay for it in the long run. I've said it before, TPTB know that oil is down there. It's coming out of the ground one way or another, like it or not. That is the reality.

All the hippies and tree huggers that want us to just stop using oil are hypocrites and living in la la land. This oil free utopia you dream of cannot and will not exist until all the economically viable and recoverable oil has been used. Only then will alternate energies become main stream out of necessity not kindness to the planet or any other green agenda.

[edit on 23/6/2010 by who-me?]

defcon5

posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 05:19 AM

link

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Originally posted by who-me?
See Here

The problem here is that you are quoting a news article from the 29th of April, back before all the hearings and such. Back then we did not really know what had happened. Haiburton was only there to pour cement into the well and seal it up.

Cement is not a black and white kind of thing, especially when you are pouring it into a hole that is over 5000 feet down, in the water, with currents, and pressure coming up from below it. The only way to tell if it poured in correctly, and filled it completely, is to test it via pressure testing. When they ran the pressure tests the results came back as “inconclusive”, which means it most likely was not sealed correctly and more cement needed to be poured into it:

In his opening remarks Congressman Waxman focused on four issues. The first was that while the cementing operation of the well may have passed the first positive pressure test, it may not have passed the following negative pressure test.

It wasn’t Halliburton’s call whether or not to proceed based on the testing, it was BP’s:

KENNER, La. — The Transocean manager of the doomed Deepwater Horizon offshore drilling rig told a board of inquiry on Thursday that BP officials aboard the rig wanted to skip required pressure tests and tried to impose a drilling plan sent from BP's Houston headquarters that had not been approved by the federal government's Minerals Management Service.

Testifying before a Coast Guard and MMS board here, Jimmy Harrell, the Deepwater Horizon’s offshore installation manager, said BP initially wanted to replace heavy drilling lubricant, commonly called mud, at the bottom of the rig’s drill pipe with lighter seawater without performing a negative-pressure test. He said the plan to proceed with removing the drilling mud came from BP's Houston headquarters and had not been approved by MMS.

So Halliburton has since been exonerated on their part of what occurred.

Originally posted by who-me?
See Here.

Nothing to see here, it's SOP for any large company in the wake of a major disaster to isolate their employees, do an inquiry, make them sign legal paperwork, and get them in front of their attorneys. Having worked for several major companies I can tell you the same thing would have happened at any one of them in any major incident.

Now what is more telling is that Transocean had all of their pertinent employees show up to testify, but BP on the other hand kept the two managers present on the rig that day, who made those fateful decisions, hidden and unavailable. One of them even plead the fifth since he's afraid he will be going to jail over his actions:

Some of the most-anticipated witnesses at key oil spill hearings -- including BP's top official on the Deepwater Horizon who was involved in an argument with other rig workers over a crucial procedure just hours before the explosion -- have been no-shows.

Donald Vidrine, BP's "company man," overruled the rig's chief mechanic and driller and pushed to speed up the process by remove the drilling mud faster to save BP money on the day of the tragic explosion, according to testimony from rig owner Transocean's Doug Brown on Wednesday.

"Well, this is how it's gonna be," Vidrine allegedly said when confronted by the other workers, according to Brown's testimony, reports the Houston Chronicle.

Vidrine did not testify as scheduled on Wednesday, citing an unspecified medical condition. The other top BP official on the rig, Robert Kaluza, also declined to testify, invoking his 5th Amendment right not to incriminate himself.

Just hours before the explosion, a BP representative overruled Transocean employees and insisted on displacing protective drilling mud with seawater. One of the BP representatives on the board responsible for making the final decision, Robert Kaluza, refused to testify on the Fifth Amendment grounds that he might incriminate himself; Donald Vidrine, another BP representative, cited medical reasons for his inability to testify, as did James Mansfield, Transocean's assistant marine engineer on board.

At least the one Transocean guy had an excuse:

James Mansfield, an engineer aboard the MODU, was severely injured in the explosion and was successfully evacuated from the rig.

Still nothing from the BP managers…
Indication of criminal guilt?

Originally posted by who-me?
Really do you thinks only April 20th counts? Aside from that they thought that "Deepwater Horizon was Award-Winningly SAFE'
See Here.

That is because Bp was lying to them, sending them drilling plans, then not following the plans that were approved:

BP officials aboard the rig wanted to skip required pressure tests and tried to impose a drilling plan sent from BP's Houston headquarters that had not been approved by the federal government's Minerals Management Service.

See what I mean…

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

[edit on 6/23/2010 by defcon5]

4nsicphd

posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 05:37 AM

link

Originally posted by who-me?
reply to post by defcon5

I agree with everything you said except "one companies".

This whole thing is the accumulation of errors cause by a multitude of companies and organizations.
To list just some but not all,

Transocean,
Halliburton,
Mineral Management Service,
The US Government,
BP.

Blaming this on one company "BP" as ATS appears to be doing quite aggressively or entity is incorrect and wrong.

[edit on 23/6/2010 by who-me?]

The Judge's financial disclosujre forms show he owns stock in both Transocean and Halliburton, as well as stock in 2 of BP's biggest stockholders, Black Rock and Chase. A partial list of his oil holdings is:

BlackRock
Ocean Energy
NGP Capital Resources
Quicksilver Resources
Hercules Offshore
Provident Energy
Peabody Energy
PenGrowth Energy
RPC Inc
Atlas Energy Resources
Parker Drilling
TXCO Resources
EV Energy Partners
Rowan Companies
BPZ Resources
El Paso Corp
KBR Inc
Chesapeake Energy
ATP Oil & Gas

Source: www.commondreams.org... www.google.com...

Another corrupt GOP (Reagan) lackey for the oil industry.

who-me?

posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 06:58 AM

link

reply to post by defcon5

I don't dispute much of what you have posted, the points I disputed I feel I have highlighted. I'm not going to go digging up every single snippet of news I can find only to have it countered by an opposing article. We could go back and fourth like that for a very long time.

I consider BP, the MMS, Halliburton and Transocean responsible for this disaster. There is plenty to support this view.

Again my point is that you, ATS the MSM and most of earth plainly seem to ignore this while continuing to blame only BP. It is not just BP's disaster.

I know what you implied in your earlier post but can you really honestly answer no to the following three questions? I doubt it.

1. Does the MMS share any responsibility at all?
2. Does Halliburton share any responsibility at all?
3. Does Transocean share any responsibility at all?

defcon5

posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 09:01 AM

link

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

reply to post by who-me?

I take it that you have never worked for a contract company under a large corporation. When that corporation “TELLS” you as a contractor to do something, you have no option, you have to do it, or quit. If after you have advised them not to do it, and they ordered you to do it anyway, if something happens they accept FULL LIABILITY for what occurred. This is really simple here.

They look at the Root Cause Analysis when attributing blame on such an incident, which means they want to know the root problem that directly caused the accident. The Root cause of this explosion was the mud being pulled out of the hole before it should have been. Whether or not Transoceans BOP, which is a secondary safety device, worked or not is not the root cause that allowed the gas to come back up the hole, the removal of the weight that was holding the gas down was. It so obvious that there was willful negligence on the part of BP that the Attorney General is looking to file criminal proceedings against them over it.

A criminal investigation has been launched into the sinking of the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig and the subsequent oil spill disaster, triggering a nosedive in the share price of oil giant BP.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

FRMDaDark

posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 09:05 AM

link

reply to post by mutante

You all forget the most important factor in this;
It not the oil Prices going Up - They are going to go up with or without the ban...

All the jobs that are going to be furlough... 20K+
BP wont have to pay for those Furlough Jobs - The prez can try and force them but thy will loose in court It will be US again the tax Payers.....

who-me?

posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 09:59 AM

link

reply to post by defcon5

Ok I see your still drifting over what I've said and haven't answered my questions.

Explain this.

The company filed a court request last week to cap its liability under $27 million,

Source.
Transocean a company that you claim shares no liability right? Then why would they file a court request to cap their liability?

Now please read this article. It really is quite informative.

Do you see my point yet? Even a little bit? Or are you still vehemently adamant the its all BP's fault and theirs alone?

Seraphina

posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 04:24 PM

link

As someone who lives off those once white sandy beaches that are now tarnished with oil, I'm pretty ticked off.
It's not like all offshore drilling was stopped, only DEEP water drilling, and only for SIX months so they could investigate the problem and hopefully keep it from ever happening again. What a lousy decision on that judges part IMO!