The Brotherhood? – 1984

26 Years on from George Orwell’s dystopia and we’re beginning to see cracks forming in the system, regardless of your political or social allegiances it is clear to see that the power establishment has little concern and great disdain for the general public. Wars rage, disasters ensue and this information is broadcast globally. Orwell’s vision for the UK is well under-way with former home sectary of Britain David Davis estimating in his resignation statement that there were 4.2 Million Close Circuit Television cameras in the UK alone.

"A CCTV camera for every 14 citizens." - David Davis, resignation statement, 12 June 2008

Full resignation speech

The very fact that since its publication, 1984 has been challenged, and subsequently banned, in select states and countries due to its revolutionary content should indicate how close to the mark Orwell came and with freedom seemingly becoming scarcer by the day and the pressure steadily rising it’s not hard to imagine a series of events that could tragically lead us into a scenario; albeit late, similar to 1984.

"There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to." - George Orwell - 1984

I would like to read any and all of your opinions and ideas on how freedom loving human beings could resist a well-established draconian government, using 1984 as a model. In a society where almost all forms of communication are banned how do you form a resistance group? Especially one so morally and ideologically defined as George Orwell's Brotherhood. Most importantly if society does reach such a point is it too late altogether? Can a brotherhood be formed at all or will it just become a tool of The Party used for flushing out those they consider a threat?

What would you do? if anything?

Thank you for reading.

Remain vigilant

[edit on 22/6/10 by bonsaisert]

this is a very interesting consept.

i think unfortunately. we have been living in orwell's vision now for quite some time.

think of any resistance group that goes against the governmental powers. they are quickly labeled as terrorists or extremists now and their operations quickly reduced or stopped altogether.

wiki leaks is a fine example. how long before the usa take's direct action against all their informers.

think of wacco and the like. anyone wanting to get off the grid whether peaceful or not is met with a very violent response and a few false charges are normaly thrown into the mix.

it has already gone to far.

the fbi recently stopped a potential school shooting by using their computers that scan all communications via the web.

the same technology exists for text messages and phone calls.

what method of communications are relay safe right now.

face to face talking and that's about it, and only if you can trust the person that your talking to and your meeting place is not compromised by bugs, and listening devices.

and lets not forget most large groups that spring up will quickly have agents embedded in them if they pose enough of a risk.

reply to post by bonsaisert


Totally agree, not much more to say, other than could you link to the David Davis statement please.

reply to post by jericanman


What room does that leave for hope then? We succumb to merely accepting what we decide to be the inevitable? Surely we must be able to think ourselves out of any situation? No?

reply to post by jokei


Please find the link edited into the OP.

Here is what I think I would do.

Since you cannot communicate with others openly, you have to do it indirectly by "sending a message".

This is a solo mission, and you are going to be on your own most likely.

The only way to defeat that type of system is by sabotaging it from the inside.

Join the security forces, work your way into the system.

Then start breaking things, secretly or make it look "accidental".

Let innocent people escape and backstab your fellow officers.
I know it sounds very dirty and low down, but hey so is a police state where they control your life.

Just become one of "them" and wreak havoc from the inside. Sabotage, misinform them, murder, anything goes as there is no "Law" in a 1984 society there is only brute force and submission.

When the people see you fighting the good fight, and see the mess you leave behind, they will copy you. They will see the point in it, and want to emulate that behavior. It is only natural.

We do have 1 dillemma I can think of right away. If in that future world, they turn all policemen into hybrid - cyborg type machine people. Well, don't become a cop than because we want to AVOID becoming a Cyborg.

In the case of Cyborgs and other disgusting freakshows, our only choice left is to simply gather weapons and fight an all out war with them until they kill us.

Get in some cheap shots though and try to evade detection.

Examples : Disable all of their cameras and possibly try to jam their communications channels. Set booby traps, etc.

Fight a guerrilla war. You have to.

At first I do not think 1984 is a reality right now, but we have gone as far as possible in this direction. Every agenda has to make on average 50% compromises while never accomplishing more then the golden mean.

Inside the world of 1984 a counter movement would be pointless. This is the whole point of the story. And because it is a story 100% system coverage is possible.
But, the scenario is one-dimensional...If you consider the agenda to be a mixture with brave new world and if both agendas would have succeeded with in their maximum level we would be at a total level of 87% oppression. (√2/ϕ) But it is more likely to be around 71%. (√2/2) Every new agenda will increase the level of tyranny but it can never reach levels like in a novel about it.

Because there are so may kind of different agendas a solution would have to be very well aligned along the dimensions to be effective. A single well designed one would be better than thinking of a way of counteracting every control structure one dimension at a time.

A final solution will also have the benefit of a relative simple structure. I will try to give an example using the simplifications of 1984 as psychological/cybernetic control system and brave new world as a physiological/sociological state.
The party in 1984 is a very hierarchical structure and the technology transforms the hierarchy in a closed fashion. So counteracting the party would involve a mechanism which can act in anarchy outside the structure, anything else would fail because the closure of the transformation.
Soma in the brave new world has replaced the mental development of people and the spirituality of Man. The human brain produces enough endorphins if it is properly supplied with nutrients and through history every culture used ritual gatherings to alter the state of mind.

In summary I would purpose a cybernetic metasociety based on total consensus in anarchism to produce an abundance of healthy food and clean water for worldwide improvement of brain chemistry as well as an abundance of shelter for a increase in ritual gatherings for everyone.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Your post is pure insanity. Sabotaging the system? Working your way inside?

This isn't a James Bond movie sir. One person will not be able to do accomplish anything.

Teamwork is the answer. Once greater America becomes aware of the problem, then we will see change.

Until we have a real "United" America, we will slowly stream towards an Orwellian world.

reply to post by kybertech


1984 is so to say a projection into the future of what were for Orwell the immediate past and the immediate present, he wrote the book between 45 and 48 at the time the Stalinist terror regime was still in full swing and it was just after the collapse of the Hitlerian regime. It was a vision of society in which control was exorcized wholly by terrorism and violent attacks on the minds and bodies of individuals. Brave New World however was not overshadowed with the idea of terrorism, Huxley emphasised the idea of a scientific dictatorship and was therefore free to think about other methods of control. Brave New World sees the members of its society made to truly love their servitude and this creates the possibility of a much more static and controllable society.

In the OP I attempted to use a pre-established "Worst Case Scenario" to work from and see where we went from there. I chose 1984 as I believe it reflects the current situation more-so than does Brave New World.

Now, from what I understand of your post kybertech, 100% control is impossible (however frightfully awakening when depicted in a novel) and that ultimately there is only the potential for 71% - 81% control.

So let’s hypothesize for a moment, that we’re in a society run by a draconian government with such a level of control, would you consider it possible for any form of organised revolution to overthrow, if not displace the oppressive systems in place? Or is 71% - 81% control sufficient to suppress even the most innovative and intelligent revolutionaries and completely irradiate dissent from the system?

Thank you for your thoughts.

Remain Vigilant


[edit on 23/6/10 by bonsaisert]