Why are Conspiracy Theories going Mainstream?

reply to post by Astyanax


And this is were you shine as an ignorant, arrogant, hard on for himself having, closed minded piece of wasted cyberspace.

What conspiracy?

It was obvious to most here on ATS that:

-WHO lowered the criteria for a pandemic.

-Swine Flu was being hyped by the media, governement and virologists clearly connected to Big Pharma.

-The actual death rate was lower than seasonal flu.

-Companies like Baxter were caught some time before the Swine Flu trying to release virusses on "accident".

Just some examples from the top of my head, from during the Swine Flu.

Government and media kept on scaring people with how bad it was going to get, and how we all needed the vaccine.

Then, after the vaccines were sold to the countries, and the rounds of vaccination were finished, suddenly, not a word anymore.

The vast majority of people did not get the shot, but after the money was made, Swine Flu died.

A few months back, the head of the European Health Committee, Wolfgang Wodarg, called the it "The biggest medical scandal in the last hundered years"

I guess he's not reliable, though.

The swine flu outbreak was a 'false pandemic' driven by drug companies that stood to make billions of pounds from a worldwide scare, a leading health expert has claimed. Wolfgang Wodarg, head of health at the Council of Europe, accused the makers of flu drugs and vaccines of influencing the World Health Organisation's decision to declare a pandemic. This led to the pharmaceutical firms ensuring 'enormous gains', while countries, including the UK, 'squandered' their meagre health budgets, with millions being vaccinated against a relatively mild disease. Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

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www.dailymail.co.uk...

Off course there is no direct evidence that proves it was a conspiracy, it's just obvious to anyone with a "mind not firmly closed".

I'm sure you are much more qualified than the head of the European Health Committee, but I think i will believe him.

Just because people don't get the exact outcome or reasoning behind a conspiracy right, doesn't mean that are not able to clearly see a conspiracy going on.

Apperently you can't and couldn't, what do you expect, from someone that prides himself in having "a firmly closed mind"

You think you're so smart and have all the regular explanations, but just face it, the majority of ATS is smarter than you are, and is way ahead of you, and the likes of you.

Conspiracies are real and ongoing, sometimes we get proven right, sometimes we don't see the big picture of what is really going, but at least we see that something is going on.

I am proud of this, and I'm proud of ATS for that.

You? You are very small.









[edit on 30-6-2010 by Point of No Return]

Originally posted by Point of No Return
And this is were you shine as an ignorant, arrogant, hard on for himself having, closed minded piece of wasted cyberspace.

'This is why?' What is why?

Because I disagree with you?

Because I don't rationalize personal fears, inadequacies, failures and mental-health issues by projecting them onto stupid imaginary conspiracies?

Because I am not a helpless, useless, hopeless consumer of pop-culture trash without the wit or education to tell fact from tendentious fiction?

Because I have loved and embraced reality and truth for over half a century?

The world has rewarded me well, materially as well as in terms of emotional fulfilment, for my affectionate and enthusiastic involvement in it. By comparison, the worlds of those who derive their emotional sustenance from conspiracy theories seem parched and constricted to me. Yet I am fascinated by such people and the things they believe in; they are what you may call a hobby of mine. Sorry if that bothers you.

It was obvious to most here on ATS that:

-WHO lowered the criteria for a pandemic.

-Swine Flu was being hyped by the media, governement and virologists clearly connected to Big Pharma blah blah blether blether...

Ah, I see. You favour the Wolf-Crying Big Pharma conspiracy theory. Why not just say so, instead of attacking me personally?

A few months back, the head of the European Health Committee, Wolfgang Wodarg, called the it "The biggest medical scandal in the last hundered years" I guess he's not reliable, though.

American, are you? What makes you think a European politician is likely to be any more truthful, or reliable in his statements, than one of your own?

If you knew a little more about the world than you think you do, you would be aware that that there is an ongoing power struggle in Europe between governments and private enterprise; between the dirigisme of European social democracy and what the French are please to call le modèle anglo-saxon, though what they really mean is Anglo-American. Wodarg's statements have to be seen in that context.

But believe what you like; I couldn't care less. What interests me is why people like you are increasingly susceptible to these confabulations. I blame consumerism, democratic overreach and media supersaturation: too many proles with votes staring at too many screens full of trash designed to sell them things. Call that a conspiracy, if you like; it will endure for ever because of the way human beings are made.

Off course there is no direct evidence that proves it was a conspiracy, it's just obvious to anyone with a "mind not firmly closed".

Yes, believing in things for which there is no evidence does tend to drive the brain 'off course'. The thread topic, though, is not whether that happens - your own performance offers ample evidence that it does - but why that particular form of self-delusion is so common these days.

Conspiracies are real and ongoing, sometimes we get proven right, sometimes we don't see the big picture of what is really going, but at least we see that something is going on.

Of course conspiracies exist. Just not the ones people like you believe in.

You? You are very small.

Yes, and I bet you can pee farther than me, too.

[edit on 1/7/10 by Astyanax]

because things aren't being reported with a spin on them and media on tv is selective/propaganda tool to keep people divided

but when an ordinary person talks they give a different view a more natural look rather than biased

damage control...
...

reply to post by Astyanax

'This is why?' What is why? Because I disagree with you? Because I don't rationalize personal fears, inadequacies, failures and mental-health issues by projecting them onto stupid imaginary conspiracies?

No, for trying to downplay an obvious chain of events that lead to one conclusion, in the face of overwhelming evidence.

Like I said, only an idiot does not see the obvious conspiracy behind the Swine Flu, especially in hindsight.

Tell me now, do you see absolutely nothing wrong with how the whole scenario went down?

Because I am not a helpless, useless, hopeless consumer of pop-culture trash without the wit or education to tell fact from tendentious fiction?

Lol, you are just making stuff up now. I presented facts in my last post regarding the Swine Flu conspiracy.

You choose to ignore and just repeat how "stupid" it all is.

Because I have loved and embraced reality and truth for over half a century?

That's a fallacy. Are you special because you are over 50?

The world has rewarded me well, materially as well as in terms of emotional fulfilment, for my affectionate and enthusiastic involvement in it. By comparison, the worlds of those who derive their emotional sustenance from conspiracy theories seem parched and constricted to me. Yet I am fascinated by such people and the things they believe in; they are what you may call a hobby of mine. Sorry if that bothers you.

Well this certainly confirms the arrogance and the hard on for yourself having.

I wasn't asking about your life, nor the quality of it. Talking about personal fear and mental health issues, I wonder what psychological mechanism forced you bring up how well you have done materialistically and in life in general.

Totally irrelevant in our discussion, and I sure wasn't asking you about your life.

Insecurity much? Compensation?

Ah, I see. You favour the Wolf-Crying Big Pharma conspiracy theory. Why not just say so, instead of attacking me personally?

It's not a theory, did you forget how it ended? They weren't crying wolf?

I don't subscribe the one particular theory, like I said, it was obvious to most that some sort of conspiracy was going on.

The fact that people posted different theories about it is not my fault.

I was adressing you, just like you were adressing me. Big boys don't cry.

American, are you? What makes you think a European politician is likely to be any more truthful, or reliable in his statements, than one of your own?

I'm European actually. please tell me, why would the head of the Health Council, step up and lie about this, if it isn't true.

Why would he be lying?

What a stupid excuse. Because he is supporting these "crazy" conspiracy claims, he suddenly isn't trustworthy, but if he would've claimed the opposite, you'd believe him.

Wodarg's statements have to be seen in that context.

Total hogwash. That context has absolutely nothing to do with his statements about the Swine Flu.

Another stupid excuse.

Yes, believing in things for which there is no evidence does tend to drive the brain 'off course'.

There is loads of evidence, I was talking about absolute proof. The conspirators are normally not leaving incriminating documents lying around for the world to read.

Of course conspiracies exist. Just not the ones people like you believe in.

And you know what I bleieve in how? Why are you being degrading to conspiracy theorist in general if conspiracies exist?

Yes, and I bet you can pee farther than me, too.

How much do you want to bet?


I think your post proves that I was pretty spot on when I was describing you.

Arrogant, feeling of superiority, "mind firmly closed", truly suymbolic for your insecurity, you have all the answers to conserve your own world image, and closed off to anything that might threaten your safe little box.

The fact that you feel the need to relate how well you are doing in your life, totally irrelevant to our discussion, is telling.

Are you looking for affirmation?

Because I don't rationalize personal fears, inadequacies, failures and mental-health issues by projecting them onto stupid imaginary conspiracies?

An objective analisis tells me that this is exactly what you are doing, but from a different angle.

Originally posted by Point of No Return
No, for trying to downplay an obvious chain of events that lead to one conclusion, in the face of overwhelming evidence.

Like I said, only an idiot does not see the obvious conspiracy behind the Swine Flu, especially in hindsight.

If so, then the multitudes of your fellow conspiracy theorists whose conspiracy theories regarding swine flu are different from yours must be idiots because they disagree with you on what the conspiracy was.

Now share with us, please, whatever it is that - in your own opinion - makes your own opinion any less idiotic?

Tell me now, do you see absolutely nothing wrong with how the whole scenario went down?

None apart from a few public-relations gaffes. The correct precautions were taken. The disease turned out to be less virulent than feared. This was good luck. If things had turned out differently you would be singing another tune.

I presented facts in my last post regarding the Swine Flu conspiracy.

Fiddlesticks. You presented no relevant facts whatsoever, just a heap of allegations and misinterpretaions. But none of that is germane to the topic of this thread. If you have no explanation for the increasing popularity of conspiracy theories other than the gullible media dupe's profession that the conspiracies are real, stop trolling and leave the thread. Your only contribution towards it, so far, has been personal insult, so you will not be missed.

[edit on 2/7/10 by Astyanax]

reply to post by Astyanax

If so, then the multitudes of your fellow conspiracy theorists whose conspiracy theories regarding swine flu are different from yours must be idiots because they disagree with you on what the conspiracy was.

No, they all saw that a conspiracy was going on, people just had different ideas about the big picture of it, but they all saw a conspiracy.

I called the ones that saw no conspiracy at all idiotic.

The disease turned out to be less virulent than feared.

It never had a higher death rate than seasonal flu so the fear was based on lies and hype.

It was obvious from the beginning it was a mild disease. It was made to look dangerous.

Fiddlesticks. You presented no relevant facts whatsoever, just a heap of allegations and misinterpretaions. But none of that is germane to the topic of this thread. If you have no explanation for the increasing popularity of conspiracy theories other than the gullible media dupe's profession that the conspiracies are real, stop trolling and leave the thread. Your only contribution towards it, so far, has been personal insult, so you will not be missed.

The facts show that people here on ATS were seeing through the conspiracy.

Facts is that Wodarg head of EU Health Council called it a conspiracy, you just ignore this and try to discredit him, the only thing you can do.

If you have no explanation for the increasing popularity of conspiracy theories other than the gullible media dupe's profession that the conspiracies are real, stop trolling and leave the thread.

And this shows what you really are.

So you are saying that only explanations that agree with your premise are welcome in this thread?

It's not up for debate?

I'm not trolling, I'm disagreeing with your premise, if you can't take it, don't start threads.

What a joke you are, but that was already clear.

Originally posted by Point of No Return
So you are saying that only explanations that agree with your premise are welcome in this thread?

Your claim that conspiracies are real does not even address the thread topic.

My premise - which no-one has disagreed with yet, even you - is merely that mainstream acceptance and discussion of conspiracy theories is increasing. The topic of the thread is 'why is this happening?'

If someone thinks it's because the number of actual conspiracies against the general public is increasing, then the way for them to prove their point is to post evidence that such conspiracies have been increasing in number.

Obviously, the only valid data to be presented would be with regard to conspiracies that were actually proved to exist beyond any doubt, ideally with the conspirators named and identified in court. Here's an example of such a conspiracy.

Well, can you prove such a numerical increase? If you can, post the data. Babbling about 'swine flu scams' will get you nowhere.

It's not up for debate?

It is. Debate it. You haven't done that yet, just lobbed turds of accusation at me.

I'm not trolling.

What a joke you are, but that was already clear.

Sniff your fingers, troll.

"damage control...
..."

And the winner is...the person who provided the above two word answer. What better way to marginalize and discredit conspiracy theorists than by taking the movement mainstream? Just like anything else, once the movement hits the mainstream, you can stick a fork in it. Of course, most of these mainstream media types are morons, so it is unlikely that they will be able to cause too much damage.

There is also a catch-22 here, since mainstream media cannot provide too much information, but can only provide the information which makes the conspiracy people look like whackjobs, even while throwing them an insignificant bone once in a while. It's a very fine line the mainstream media has to walk and since they are not very good at it, they'll screw it up sooner or later. There are only so many lies and deceptions you can weave before getting swallowed up by them. Taking conspiracies to the mainstream is just a continuation of their garbage tactics.

reply to post by SphinxMontreal

Are you saying that the recent attention given to conspiracy theories by the media is an attempt to reduce public interest in conspiracy theories?



Isn't that a conspiracy theory, too?