The FACTS ----confirm Obama born in U.S.A-CASE CLOSED******

Originally posted by Nite_wing
Nobody has to prove anything to get a certificate of live birth. If you are so certain, go online to the Hawaiian Clerks office.

§§338-15 which reads
§338-15 Late or altered certificates. A person born in the State may file or amend a certificate after the time prescribed, upon submitting proof as required by rules adopted by the department of health. Certificates registered after the time prescribed for filing by the rules of the department of health shall be registered subject to any evidentiary requirements that the department adopts by rule to substantiate the alleged facts of birth. [L 1949, c 327, §19; RL 1955, §57-18; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-15; am L 1972, c 66, §1(1); am L 1997, c 305, §2]

When you read the extension of 338, it clearly says you must provide evidence and appear in court where you will need to provide 3 witnesses, and a doctors signiture, and an sworn testimony by the parents. Now if such an event happened, I am sure you would be able to find the record of the court appearance by Mrs Dunham, until then you are merely speculating.

It also makes absolutely no sense for you to argue that the mother and associates would lie to gain Obama a birth certificate. Why would they need to lie to get a birth certificate? Hypothetically if the president was born in Kenya, he would have been granted US citizenship regardless and there for his mother would not have to lie to gain him citizenship in the the United States. Sure he would not have had natural born citizenship, but he would have gained US citizenship regardless, so there is absolutely no point in his mother lying to gain an Hawaiian birth ceritificate unless she predicted that he was to become president 48 years down the track.

In anycase president Obama is one of only a select few presidents that ever even presented their birth certificate. The vast majority of presidents have not show their birth certificates let alone their long form birth certificates. Most friends I know do not hold their long form birth certificates, they use short forms, most americans do. I'd find it highly unusual to see an average joe american walk down to the DMV to present his 38year old long form crumbled torn birth certificate as identification. it absolutely makes no sense to me, unless you are in lala world.

Most US states have similar laws concerning out of hopsital birth, so by your accounts, most citizens are suspect as are most presidents. You are widening to net here buddy.

You are right. You win.

The actual form that has to be filled out does not say the Mother need not swear to the truth of the affidavit. I take your word on that over what it actually says on the forms over what is actually written.

Yes Barak Obama is the only president who actually proved he was born in the United States. I will take your word on that.

Yes Stanley filed this the day he was born or the hospital did or somebody did. After all, why would anybody who had a child born in Kenya, want them to be a citizen of the United States. Sounds foolish to me.

Nobody waited a year to file this after BO was born. I can't prove it so I guess you have the proof so I will take your word on this too.

I presume you knew where Stanley was the entire year before BO was born. I know it doesn't mean much but there is a statutory regulation regarding the location of the mother for the year prior to birth. I think we can disregard this too. It actually isn't important just because there is a law about it.

I agree. Barak Obama is the best president we ever had. He is only losing the war just a little bit. He is probably going to grant amnesty by Executive Order to somewhere between 10-30 million illegals. He is wonderful for not protecting our borders and has just appointed a person to guard the borders who doesn't believe the borders should be closed. Obviously he must be a Magna Cum Laude at Harvard.

I agree he is a genius and not the amateur the rest of the world thinks he is.

I agree we should give everybody in the country free medical treatment. After all, we have our children to pay for the costs when they grow up. It's not our worry.

I agree, we should have given away our missile defense against Iran. I agree with his giving our only ally in the middle east the cold shoulder (Israel). We kicked the British out in the 1700s and I guess it's ok to kick them out again.

I agree we should disregard the Constitution. After all, it just gets in our way and impedes the tyranny of the masses in a Democratic society.

I agree that Obama is a Socialist, and Socialism is good for everybody, including those who die in concentration camps and killing fields.

I don't agree with those who say Obama is letting the Gulf burn so he can pass his energy bill anymore than I believe those who say he leaving the borders open to pass an immigration bill.

I agree Obama should not lift the Jones Act and get the experts in from around the world to help us in the Gulf. There could be terrorists aboard. We could use a little advice here on how to get a 2 ton centrifuge across the Rio Grande. Got any advice on that?

I agree that Joe Biden said before BO that he would be tested when he took office. I agree that we did right with Iran's nuclear ambitions. I agree, we should do nothing about North Korea. I agree we should have given his Buddy George Soros 2 Billion dollars to play with by investing in Petrobras. I guess he passed Joe's test.

I think he is just as great as Hugo Chavez and Che Quevera. Heck, he might even be as famous as Benedict Arnold in the history books.

Yup, you win.

Oh, and I ain't your buddy.



[edit on 25-6-2010 by Nite_wing]

[edit on 25-6-2010 by Nite_wing]

Originally posted by Nite_wing
The actual form that has to be filled out does not say the Mother need not swear to the truth of the affidavit.

Where is this form? And why would Mrs Dunham need to lie about her son being born in Kenya when he already inherited US citizenship from his mother anyway?? Wheres the logic? Hawaiian officials including the Hawaiian Republican governor personally confirmed the presidents birth here, are you lumping them into this vast 40year conspiracy as well?

I take your word on that over what it actually says on the forms

Where are these forms?

Yes Barak Obama is the only president who actually proved he was born in the United States. I will take your word on that.

Please do not lie about what I said. I did not say he was the only president to provide a birth certificate, I said he was one of few. Unless you can show me a birth certificate from the last 43 presidents your argument does not fly.

Yes Stanley filed this the day he was born or the hospital did or somebody did.

Here we go! Look here:

1. In the State of Hawaii, back in 1961, there were three different birth certificates that were obtainable:

a. If the birth was attended by a physician or mid wife, the attending medical professional was required to certify to the Department of Health the facts of the birth date, location, parents’ identities and other information. (See Section 57-8 & 9 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).

b. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or mid wife, then, up to the first birthday of the child, an adult could, upon testimony, file a “Delayed Certificate”, which required endorsement on the Delayed Certificate of a summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for delayed filing, which evidence must be kept in a special permanent file. The statute provided that the probative value of the Delayed Certificate must be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is offered as evidence. (See Section 57-18, 19 & 20 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).

c. If a child born in Hawaii, for whom no physician or mid wife filed a certificate of live birth, and for whom no Delayed Certificate was filed before the first birthday, then a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth could be issued upon testimony of an adult including the subject person) if the Lieutenant Governor was satisfied that a person was born in Hawaii, provided that the person had attained the age of one year. (See Section 57-40 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).

2. In 1982, the vital records law was amended to create a fourth kind of birth certificate for children born outside of the Territory or State of Hawaii. HRS Chapter 338 was amended to add a new section authorizing the Director of the Department of Health to issue a birth certificate for a person NOT born in Hawaii either as a Territory or State, upon sufficient proof that the legal parents of such individual had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth of such child.

hawaii.gov...

Mrs Dunham would need to appear in court, provide witnesses, provide sufficient evidence, and swear to the fact her son was born on Hawaiian soil, and after this await acceptance from state officials. Doing all this would make absolutely no sense unless she was trying to get him US citizenship, which further makes this theory illogical as Obama would have gained US citizenship from his mother anyway. So unless his mother knew about Obama's future presidency 46 years down the track, I do not see what reason she would want to go through all that to get her son an Hawaiian birth certificate.

After all, why would anybody who had a child born in Kenya, want them to be a citizen of the United States. Sounds foolish to me.

I explained this to you, do you not listen?? That links to my point. Even if hypothetically Obama was born in Kenya, he would have still gained US citizenship automatically as his mother was not legally married to Obama snr and his mother was an american born citizen. Why would his mother need to lie to gain her son citizenship if her son was already an american citizen through his mother? You obviously have not bothered to read what I had been saying right?

I can't prove it

No you cannot, and yet you continue to insist this man is likely ineligible some how. You cannot say for sure, but you believe. Its a personal conclusion from you.

I presume you knew where Stanley was the entire year before BO was born.

I presume you personally knew the where abouts of the parents for the last 43 presidents? I can tell you that I would not know for sure regarding Obama's mother, as I can say for the last 43 presidents. We can argue all sorts of things, hypotheticals for the last 43 presidents, but at the end of the day its a moot, right? All we can do is rely on evidence to the contrary of what had been fairly reported, and thus far I see no so thing for the 44 presidents, in particular for this president.

I agree. Barak Obama is the best president we ever had.

Well I certainly do not, there are a many things I disagree with him on. Just because somebody debunks the garbage you spew, doesnt mean they think this president is the 'best ever'. This is merely a generalization from you to further discredit an opposing argument, it has little to no relevance over whether this president was born on US soil. It also shows me how little you care about the constitutionality of this president in comparison to his politics.

I do not think blabbering about the many other things you do not like about the man politically will prove whether he was born off US soil. It only serves as a distraction from the fact you have nothing.

Get back to me ya hear?

[edit on 25-6-2010 by Southern Guardian]

I said you win.

Have another cup of Kool-Aid and chill.

Originally posted by Nite_wing
I said you win.

Have another cup of Kool-Aid and chill.

So in other words, 'I have nothing more to lie about so I am running away like the rest of the birther frauds'. Yes, you run away now.

is it true that factcheck.org is owned and operated by the Annenberg foundation of chicago?



Founding members of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge Board were: Susan Crown, vice president, Henry Crown Company; Patricia Graham, president, The Spencer Foundation, and former dean, Harvard Graduate School of Education; Stanley Ikenberry, president-emeritus, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign; Handy Lindsey, executive director, Field Foundation; Barack Obama; Arnold Weber, former president, Northwestern University, and president, Civic Committee of the Commercial Club of Chicago; and Wanda White, executive director, Community Workshop on Economic Development.

reply to post by doublehelix


This individual up here has used a common birther argument against one factchecking website that did not tell them what they wanted to hear. It is at most interesting that birthers just love attacking the source and its connections, but never the evidence contained. The truth is, they use this attack to distract from the actual evidence that contains within, and they know it, yet have the hypocritical nerve to cry about deception.

In anycase I hardly use Factchecker.org as my source. I have no issue going to other sources as there are many many places to go to debunk the birther frauds. However I have come to learn that birthers will never learn, they will dismiss the sources of any evidence regardless of how conclusive it is.

State of Hawaii health director clarifies Obama's birth in Hawaii.
The birthers say: She's in on it!

Republican governor confirms Obama's birth in Hawaii.
The birthers say: She doesnt know what shes saying!

And yet they insist on believe a passing comment made by a Kenyan minister with nothing, no clarification or any of the sort, and they readily take an unauthenticated edited audio tape as evidence.

As for the state verified Hawaiian birth certificate? Well apparently all birthers are experts in birth certificates (and they all apparently carry their 40 or so year old torn up long form birth certificates around with them) so it must be fake! But the Kenyan birth certificate (which any one you choose) must be real because... well? Well nothing. Its just real.... according to birthers.

But lets just go down the road of the one argument against Factcheck.org. The Annenberg family were politically conservative and they were strong supporters and friends of the Reagan Family in the 80's. President Obama served on the board of the Annenberg schools project in the 80's as did many close Reagan associates including George P. Shultz, former secretary of state for Reagan, served under Nixon administration. I suppose I should label Factcheck as conservative bias as well?

So by all means, ignore factcheck, but there are plenty of other sources that you cannot simply push aside as biased. You cannot keep on pushing aside the facts without directly addressing them. The court system fortunately does not work that way.

[edit on 26-6-2010 by Southern Guardian]