Some of the Excellent Dining in Gaza.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox



If Gaza has been closed to foreigners for a while now, why is 'conflict tourism' on the rise there?

This is a growing trend of mostly Westerners, that want to go there and in essence say "I've been to Gaza" and stand infront of IDF troops asking them to stop shooting when they are obviously engaged in an operation.

In my opinion, 'peace activists' are more harm than good. They are 'busy bodies' that stick their noses into affairs that do not concern them under the guise of caring for all humanity. Which is total BS.

How many of you would trade the life of your Mother, Father, Son or Daughter for 1 billion humans?

There's your answer.

We are a selfish species, a warring species, as our primal instinct dictates that we are competative; seek to 'stand out amongst the crowd'. We envy what we do not have, we are quick to judge and catagorise people other than ourselves.

We are the problem, war is inevitable, aslong as there is a struggle for power (and there will always be) we will never have true world peace.

So pressure groups, humanitarians, peace activists all serve to slow and interfere with the process of war, thus, in many cases, resulting in more deaths in the long term than would have been lost had a military done what a military is designed to do.

Sorry for going off-topic, but I felt it needed to be said.

Skellon.


[edit on 12-6-2010 by Skellon]

Originally posted by dbates

Are there problems there? Of course but let's not throw out all reason and believe that there is no food and no water and that everyone is starving unless people break a blockade and bring them food. That's not the case at all.

Water is another issue for Palestinians.
The MAIN issue is OCCUPATION/DICTATORSHIP.
If we let this continue, we'll all be waiting for the governments'
permission just to take a piss in the lavatory.
Admit it, . . . to deny medical supplies, wheelchairs, antibiotics,
bandages, ambulances etc, is extremely petty and low of israel.
BTW
Why are israeli's and anti-Pales. so envious of a
wonderful restaurant ? Still eating those old
Mac's burgers ?
Is there so much envy, that you need to
block MEDICAL AID ? ? ?







[edit on 12-6-2010 by ToneDeaf]

[edit on 12-6-2010 by ToneDeaf]

[edit on 12-6-2010 by ToneDeaf]

reply to post by ToneDeaf


Water is an issue for Israel, Syria, Jordan and alot of other Middle Eastern countries.

Israel imports water from Turkey. Whilst blocking water getting to Syria.


Skellon.

reply to post by YJLTG

Yep, stock photos are used over and over again making a single bad scenario appear as if it were an every day occurrence. Both sides do this but the ratio of bombed out buildings and crying children to the reality of what Gaza is is horribly skewed in the media. The reason of course is that there are billions of dollars on the line.

These photos of Gaza will not generate billions in aid. Look through his galleries. Check out the refugee camp photos and the photos of outdoor Gaza views. Hardly what you'll see in the standard news article. No one claims it's easy to live there but it's not as you're being told it is.

It's not honest to show the crying images of children posed by bombed buildings in every discussion of Gaza. It would be equally dishonest if I posted the below photo in every discussion of Gaza. Yes, this photo is from Gaza.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/550f8d5f5358.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by ToneDeaf


You may wish to ask the Palestinians of the West Bank if oppression and dictatorship are a main issue for them. Wonder why you don't hear much of the West Bank anymore? Look it up.

Hamas is the main current issue for Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, that, and it's rogue states sponsers.

Look up how many Palestinians are killed by Hamas, the number will shock you and put things into perspective.

Hamas are the 'Gucci' terrorists. They are wealthy and kill large numbers of Palestinians at their leisure, just to enforce their authority.


Skellon.



[edit on 12-6-2010 by Skellon]

Here :
Orthodox Jews who support Palestine, and the Aid Flotilla,
no need to go on about that supporting Palestine is anti-semetic-garble.
(The 'Stalinists' are the one's who are causing all the trouble)

*A group of Jewish activists in Germany are preparing to send an aid ship to the Gaza Strip, which has been under an Israeli-imposed blockade for three years.
The group, which is the German branch of the European Jews for a Just Peace, plans to send the aid ship by the end of July.
Peace Aid Ship


Freedom for Palestine
Rabbi Lynn Gottlieb, Shomer Shalom Network for Jewish Nonviolence
Rabbi Brant Rosen, Taanit Tzedek –Jewish Fast for Gaza
Rabbi Brian Walt, Taanit Tzedek –Jewish Fast for Gaza
Rabbi Haim Beliak
Rabbi Michael Lerner, Tikkun Community
Rabbi Arthur Waskow, The Shalom Center

Rabbi Rebecca Alpert
Rabbi Phyllis Berman
Rabbi Michael Feinberg
Rabbi Zev-Hayyim Feyer
Rabbi Margaret Holub
Rabbi Shai Gluskin
Rabbi Douglas Krantz
Rabbi Eyal Levinson
Rabbi Mordecai Liebling
Rabbi David Mivasair
Rabbi David Shneyer
Rabbi Laurie Zimmerman
Rabbi Gershon Steinberg-Caudill
Rabbi Erin Hirsh
Rabbi Michael Rothbaum
Rabbi Benjamin Barnett
Rabbi Julie Greenberg
Rabbi Linda Holtzman
Rabbi Ayelet S.Cohen
Rabbi Jeffrey Marker
Rabbi Nina H.Mandel
Rabbi Victor Reinstein
Rabbi Everett Gendler
Rabbi Meryl M. Crean
Rabbi Sheila Weinberg
Rabbi Pamela Frydman Baugh
Rabbi Lewis Weiss
Rabbi Shaul Magid
Rabbi Stephen Booth-Nadav
Rabbi Phillip Bentley
Rabbi Anna Boswell-Levy
Rabbi Chava Bahle

supported by Taanit Tzedek- Jewish Fast for Gaza , Shomer Shalom Institute for Jewish Nonviolence, Tikkun and the Shalom Center.

If you are a rabbi and would like to add your name to this statement, send an e-mail to Rabbi Lynn Gottlieb (rabbilynn at earthlink dot net).

reply to post by ToneDeaf


If the blockade running is not organised by the German government, then it is yet another act of political defiance under the guise of aid transportation.

Using Jews, only serves to add some spice to the pot of defiance.

Israel are enforcing a Naval Blockade, if organisers state in advance that they intend to run this blockade, then they are doing so for publicity and expect to be intercepted.

Some could then argue, that they are doing it to provoke Israel into an action that would provide further international condemnation. Something that Hamas are only too familiar with.

If they were really serious on smuggling aid, they would not announce it.


Skellon.


[edit on 13-6-2010 by Skellon]

reply to post by dbates


Excuse us ignorant peons for believing that the entire Palestine state was not carpet bombed into absolute ruin. I truly had no idea that there were still buildings still standing over there. Seriously, were those trees I saw in one of those pictures? Why, I had no idea the West Bank had any sort of breathable air left, let alone people who aren't missing multiple limbs! Why doesn't Fox News tell me this?

Is that what you wanted to hear? Good. How seriously brain damaged do you think all of us are? Do you truly think we can't comprehend that there are comfortable areas in Palestine? Pick out any single post in this thread which states this. Or better yet, quit trying to prop up your straw man and reply to my post.

I don't even know what I'm still doing replying in this thread. I don't normally spend so much time engaging in fruitless debate, I feel its bad energy to surround your thoughts with this nonsense. I mean, I'm debating people who believe Israel is sending aid into Palestine.

reply to post by Tgautier13

What exactly does "70% of Gaza is food dependent" mean? That they require some subsidy assistance or that they get 100% of their food from government hand outs? There could be many levels of assistance in between as well. It isn't clear in the information that you provided what that phrase actually means.

I know that unemployment is a big problem in Gaza. Are then unemployed paid a unemployment wage and given food or are they paid and expected to buy their own food? Would both examples put them in the 70% bracket or just one?

Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

This is a growing trend of mostly Westerners, that want to go there and in essence say "I've been to Gaza" and stand infront of IDF troops asking them to stop shooting when they are obviously engaged in an operation.

What trend, have any sources to back up this claim of a 'trend'?

They are 'busy bodies' that stick their noses into affairs that do not concern them under the guise of caring for all humanity. Which is total BS.

Maybe in your world where only me me me matters would you come to that conclusion, some people out there still have compassion for the rest of humanity.

So pressure groups, humanitarians, peace activists all serve to slow and interfere with the process of war, thus, in many cases, resulting in more deaths in the long term than would have been lost had a military done what a military is designed to do.

Can you show any source that backs up this claim or did you just pull that our of your bum?

[edit on 6/12/2010 by Uniceft17]

reply to post by dbates


Here is the direct quote from the pdf, which I have no doubt you haven't read:

In May 2008, after nearly a year of the blockade, over 70 per cent of Gazans were living below the US$1 per day poverty line, and following Operation ―Cast Lead in January 2009, 75 per cent of Gaza’s population were food insecure (OCHA, 2009a).

I apologize, my wording was bit off before. So what I am inclined to believe from this report is that 3 out of 4 Palestinians have to worry about where their food will be coming from, if any, in the long term. Unless of course you can give me another definition for 'insecure'. If you still are having a hard time understanding this statement I suggest either picking up a dictionary or getting in contact with the International Labour Organization and asking them specifically.

Beyond this all you can do is read the pdf document. Here is just a snippet of the Preface, to get you started:

This year, in accordance with the mandate given by the International Labour Conference, I again sent high-level missions to the occupied Arab territories, Israel, the Syrian Arab Republic, and the Arab Labour Organization and the League of Arab States in Cairo, to report on the situation of Arab workers in occupied territories. The delegations enjoyed the full cooperation of all concerned parties, for which I am very grateful. This reaffirms the broad support that exists for the values embodied by the ILO.
My representatives held in-depth discussions with a wide range of representatives of the Palestinian Authority, employers’ and workers’ organizations in the occupied Arab territories, constituents in Israel and in the Syrian Arab Republic, representatives of the United Nations and international and non-governmental organizations. All provided valuable information and insights on the situation of workers in the occupied Arab territories, which have guided the preparation of this Report. As always, the mission conducted its fact-finding work with a deep sense of commitment and impartiality.

Here's a direct link to the source pdf. Don't worry, this link is safe, I know how much you and Skyfloating detest us posting links trying to inform your opinion on the matter.

reply to post by Uniceft17


Hi Uniceft17,

This is a growing trend of mostly Westerners, that want to go there and in essence say "I've been to Gaza" and stand infront of IDF troops asking them to stop shooting when they are obviously engaged in an operation.

To tackle your question regarding proof of the type of tourism I mentioned, please view the link and video below.


www.euronews.net...



The 'war tourism' trend that is growing, has shown the likes of US citizens, no doubt, inspired by the actions of Rachel Corrie, confronting IDF troops, whilst operating in engagements to ask them "why are you doing this"? and standing infront of their rifles. For many on this forum, it may seem like a righteous activity and be considered as 'brave'.

The actions of 'peace activists' like Rachel Corrie, can serve to encourage the Palestinians to fight back, therefore enduring even more loss as a consequence just to prove a point.

In my opinion, 'peace activists' are more harm than good. They are 'busy bodies' that stick their noses into affairs that do not concern them under the guise of caring for all humanity. Which is total BS.

How many of you would trade the life of your Mother, Father, Son or Daughter for 1 billion humans?

The second sentence you quoted me on was related to the following hypothetical question beneath it, which I would be curious to hear your answer to, if you wish to answer it.


Skellon.


[edit on 13-6-2010 by Skellon]

Originally posted by dbates
It's not honest to show the crying images of children posed by bombed buildings in every discussion of Gaza. It would be equally dishonest if I posted the below photo in every discussion of Gaza. Yes, this photo is from Gaza.

Then you must be rather confident that you could portray say...the US in the same light as others portray Gaza? If it all just depends on what pictures you use because the reality is not nearly as bad as you claim, then how about one post showing the bombed out buildings and streets with bodies and screaming children from all over the US? Or, is it possible you are missing your own point on purpose?

I think that dbates makes a very valid point.

We forget the media's obsession with morbidity when it suits our argument.



I myself, would argue that most posters on ATS do not believe the 'official' explanation given by the US government and supported by the MSM of the events that occured on 9/11.

Why is it now, that the majority on the Middle East forum, suddenly believe everything that the MSM tell them, when it is in regard to the alleged murdering and targeting of innocent civilians in the Gaza Strip by the IDF?

In my opinion, it is related to the International Bankers (alot of whom are Jews) theory, that has become more mainstream as a result of 9/11 conspiracy theories.

Skellon.

edit wrong forum

[edit on 13-6-2010 by TheOracle]

I am worried isnt ATS about denying ignorance? The whole world know the conditions in Gaza. Hell only a few days ago Israel allowed COOKIES and SODA to be lifted from the list of blocked goods.
I dont mind moderators giving opinions and showing all sides in a debate, but such comments are very uneducated or some form of propaganda.

Originally posted by Skellon


To tackle your question regarding proof of the type of tourism I mentioned, please view the link and video below.

Just to clarify:

That story takes place in Israel, overlooking Gaza.

Gaza has been effectively closed to the outside world for years.

Originally posted by vox2442

Originally posted by Skellon


To tackle your question regarding proof of the type of tourism I mentioned, please view the link and video below.

Just to clarify:

That story takes place in Israel, overlooking Gaza.

Gaza has been effectively closed to the outside world for years.

Hi vox,

Please find below, an example of the state of access to the Gaza Strip for travellers.

This Advice is current for Sunday, 13 June 2010.

We strongly advise you not to travel to the Gaza Strip because of the extremely dangerous and unpredictable security situation.

The Palestinian Authority requires all travellers to the Gaza Strip to register their movements. We recommend you contact the Australian Representative Office in Ramallah to assist with this process.

If, in spite of our advice not to travel to the Gaza Strip or the West Bank, you decide to do so, you should be aware that the ability of the Australian Government to provide consular services to Australians in these areas is extremely limited.

www.smartraveller.gov.au...


Essentially, you can, but you are advised not to.


Skellon.




[edit on 13-6-2010 by Skellon]

This thread is a big joke and still doesn't make me hungry.

"ZOMG, I saw a picture after Hiroshima bombing, where people are eating sushi..Thus Hiroshima had not very much effecte from atom bomb."

i am still not hungry, why?

[edit on 13-6-2010 by deccal]

reply to post by Skellon


The way I understand it is that you are free to apply for the chance to go all you like. That does not mean you will get there. People have already posted that they have tried and been denied. Have you tried? I can apply for a CC permit where I live. People have them so I know it is possible. I also know for a fact that I will get turned down. There are subtle differences between being allowed to apply to try and being allowed. I am curious what steps you have taken to secure travel over there or are you just posting what you find online?