The UFO forum is becoming fail

reply to post by crowdedskies


Your idea of a thread could be a good one. Those kind of threads, the ones correlating research belong here. I think examining altered states of consciousness and how they relate to sightings is actually a pretty good idea.

The kind of threads I have issue with would be if someone came in here and made statments as facts.

Examples:

Person starts a thread and says Ashtar brings a message from the X density a message of love and hope. Ashtar will arrive in 2012 and humanity will reach ascension. Now visit my website and buy my book, btw I take paypal donations. Love, Peace, and Starlight!

Person starts another thread: Ashtar says the reptoids from the lower densities are sending their slaves the Greys to harvest blood and organs to save themselves, as their world is dying. The Galactic Federation of Pleaidians, Sirians, Antarans, and Klingons along with the Grey resistance will liberate their brothers from the clutches of the Reptoids. The Galactic worldship Nibiru will arrive at the Zetan homeworld and liberate them before heading to earth. The worldship Nibiru is on course to arrive at earth on 2012. Now visit my blog, buy my book, and I take paypal donations. Live long and prosper, May the resonant zero point energy field be with you!

Those are parodies, but there are posters who make posts to be taken at face value. You can't have a rational discussion with them. Their belief is religious and they want to force that belief down the throats of others. Those threads need to be in a different forum.



[edit on 13/6/10 by MikeboydUS]

reply to post by MikeboydUS


MikeboydUS.....

I agree with InfaRedMan.....

It's obvious.....

Stick all that stuff in a new age forum!

I agree it should be raised with the owners & the Mod Squad.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by MikeboydUS


That's a great idea! Opening a new forum will undoubtedly ease some situations (and by situations I mean fights) between those who want to take a scientific approach to the subject and those who don't. Although, on the other hand, I don't think mods would open a whole new forum just because. We're grown ups and we should be able to coexist in the same space.

because of the fact that most of us here on ATS believe in the presence of UFO's, it has become...well...mundane to keep looking at obvious CGI clips, and non-verifiable stories. i find myself interested in night-vision clips, and not much else. to me it's an accepted fact that either we humans have some fantastic secret stuff, or we have aliens visiting us.

Originally posted by Radiobuzz

That's a great idea! Opening a new forum will undoubtedly ease some situations (and by situations I mean fights) between those who want to take a scientific approach to the subject and those who don't.

I think this idea misses the fact that a good deal of trouble at ATS is caused by those actually looking for trouble, looking to bait. For instance, ATS draws a number of those who think the whole UFO issue is rubbish and that those who even consider it are morons. Such people consider it great sport to bait and undermine the discussion. No matter what was done to separate forums, this element would still look to disrupt, whether blatantly or insidiously.

PS, with regard to keeping out all of what was classed as "New Agey" elements: how can we decide what has no place on a UFO forum before we know exactly what they UFO phenomenon is? Doesn't that seem rather like deciding what the nature of something is (and is not) before you actually KNOW what it's nature is? This would be more about what people WANT the UFO phenomenon to be, rather than what it is.

We might WANT it to be all very classically physical when it may actually be rather weirdly metaphysical. (As illustrated in the movie 'Contact', sometimes the current 'scientific approach' cannot deal with the reality as it presents itself)

That said, it would definitely ease some tensions if those who were not willing to consider what they see as "New Agey" type themes and possibilities had their own forum.


[edit on 13-6-2010 by Malcram]

Originally posted by Radiobuzz
reply to post by MikeboydUS

 

That's a great idea! Opening a new forum will undoubtedly ease some situations (and by situations I mean fights) between those who want to take a scientific approach to the subject and those who don't. Although, on the other hand, I don't think mods would open a whole new forum just because. We're grown ups and we should be able to coexist in the same space.

We already have sections dedicated to New Age type stuff - The Grey Area and the Mysterious Subjects section. Threads just need to move.

It doesn't help with miserable gets like you having a signature saying "The UFO forum is becoming fail.."

there's been two big population explosions on this forum, the 1st was "Titor" 2nd was Bill Ryan and the Serpo agenda.

I was one of those who became a member by following the Titor story, the UFO forum was brilliant, plenty of info and interesting discussions,

but then a member called Centurist and a guy called Bill Ryan started the Serpo agenda thread, I recall ATS doubled in members almost over night,
nice one ATS

I created this front page at the time
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/53964944ef7b.jpg[/atsimg]


I began to notice that the UFO forum was going through old ground and had less informed members on the subject, the new members were drowning out the old members by simply being excited by the subject, in fact I left ATS because I felt the same way you do, but now 4 years later I've become a member again

even when I wasn't a member I must admit that I still regarded ATS knowledgeable and useful for references and analysis, let me suggest to you to take it as an opportunity to steer us in the right direction

Originally posted by cripmeister

We already have sections dedicated to New Age type stuff - The Grey Area and the Mysterious Subjects section. Threads just need to move.

While I remain ambivalent about these calls to separate the discussion of the UFO phenomena from "New Age" themes that some consider silly or irrelevant (because this attempt is often based on a rather haughty presumption of what the UFO phenomena "is" and "is not", or "cannot be") I came across a quote I thought was interesting and relevant to this issue. It was on AnnunakiX's signature:

"...if you disagree with the idea of supporting highly-speculative ideas as a means to test the upper boundaries of our imagination, then quite frankly, ATS is not for you." -Springer (Site Owner)

Food for thought.


[edit on 13-6-2010 by Malcram]

reply to post by Radiobuzz


Agreed. I've noticed an alarming trend lately of people mistaking common insects for alien spacecraft. YouTube is filled with endless videos of tiny, little black specks flying across the screen and labeled by the ignorant as "UFOs." They're insects, people... they move fast and they're small and black and there's trillions of them in the world.

I'm so tempted to invent a drinking game for every single one of our six-legged exoskeletal minute friends being mistaken for a "distant" alien ship.

But then I'd get alcohol poisoning.

when I was young I believed in UFO’s and aliens. but all the stories where the same . I got board with it all. we have better stories now? but still nothing will come of it. until the aliens take over nothing ever will.

Usually just skim over the u.f.o section in hope of finding interesting cases / experiences.. About to give up as its tiresome wading through the rubbish for good information the flame wars dont help either.. What ever happened to proper presentation of evidence and calm, rational discussion ?

That quote I just posted by Springer got me thinking.

Am I the only one who has noticed that an ideological 'coup' has been happening at this forum over the past few years, with the forum deviating significantly from it's original stated purpose as enshrined in the mission statements due to a number of very vocal members attempting to remake it into something more to their liking?



[edit on 13-6-2010 by Malcram]

Originally posted by Malcram

Originally posted by cripmeister
We already have sections dedicated to New Age type stuff - The Grey Area and the Mysterious Subjects section. Threads just need to move.

While I remain ambivalent about these calls to separate the discussion of the UFO phenomena from "New Age" themes that some consider silly or irrelevant (because this attempt is often based on a rather haughty presumption of what the UFO phenomena "is" and "is not", or "cannot be") I came across a quote I thought was interesting and relevant to this issue. It was on AnnunakiX's signature:

"...if you disagree with the idea of supporting highly-speculative ideas as a means to test the upper boundaries of our imagination, then quite frankly, ATS is not for you." -Springer (Site Owner)

Food for thought.

OK I digested that food for thought by comparing the words "highly speculative" in Springer's quote to the words "highly speculative" in the skunk works forum:

The ATS Skunk Works Forum!
This forum is dedicated to the all-important highly speculative topics that may not be substantiated by many, if any facts and span the spectrum of topics discussed on ATS.

That would seem to support that yes, ATS does encourage highly speculative topics and yes, there is a place for them, which isn't in this forum. The Gray area would be another, as cripmeister mentioned. By the way, I have to love that tinfoil hat but I don't understand the antennae, I thought the whole idea of the tinfoil hat was to NOT receive transmissions? Oh, I get it, maybe he's sending transmissions...

So yes, let's move threads as appropriate to the already designated forums, I'm not sure we need another forum.

Originally posted by ArbitrageurOK I digested that food for thought by comparing the words "highly speculative" in Springer's quote to the words "highly speculative" in the skunk works forum:

The ATS Skunk Works Forum!
This forum is dedicated to the all-important highly speculative topics that may not be substantiated by many, if any facts and span the spectrum of topics discussed on ATS.

That would seem to support that yes, ATS does encourage highly speculative topics and yes, there is a place for them, which isn't in this forum....
So yes, let's move threads as appropriate to the already designated forums, I'm not sure we need another forum.

Hi Arbitrageur.

But, according to Springers quote ATS as a whole is - at least to some extent - intended for such highly speculative ideas, not just certain sections of ATS.

Further, your statement appears to be based on the assumption that you know or can judge what is "highly speculative" and what is not when it comes to the issue of UFO's, which is obviously impossible, because no one knows.

It's all speculative.

The difference is, there are speculations we prefer and others we don't. But that's a personal perspective and a personal preference. Why should the pet speculations of a certain section of the membership be given preferential treatment?

"This forum is dedicated to the discussion of historic and contemporary events related to extraterrestrial encounters, UFO sightings, and speculation about related subjects".

That's a pretty broad mission statement with regard to speculation and clearly some members are trying to radically restrict it according to their own preferences.

There are also some relevant comments made by Springer in the "UFO Forum. Read before posting." thread, from which I now selectively quote and highlight

UFO Forum READ BEFORE Posting **02/18/2007 UPDATE***

The civil and courteous discussion of ideas, sightings, reports, beliefs, opinions and stories is what this forum is for. Whenever we catch someone attempting to hoax this community we ban them straight away...That is NOT the same as presenting your life experience or opinions/beliefs on the subject as just that, your opinions, beliefs and experiences and I will not tolerate ANYONE getting rude or acting uncivil toward those who would share these things with our community.

If the Members don't want to read the information they won't and the thread will die, we do NOT need some sort of self appointed vigilante group policing threads on ATS...

...this topic is 99% SUBJECTIVE

This is NOT the "I am going to expose a FRAUD" Forum it's the ALIENS and UFO FORUM.

EVERY MEMBER has the privilege afforded them to SHARE THEIR STORY UNMOLESTED BY WORTHLESS DEMANDS FOR PROOF/EVIDENCE. AND CERTAINLY WITHOUT BEING DERIDED FOR NOT HAVING IT. If SOMEONE SAYS THEY HAVE NO PROOF THAT ENDS IT.

The skeptics are asking for a separate forum for crying out loud when all that needs to be done is NOT CLICK the threads you don't want to read.

(I'm playing Devil's Advocate to some extent here as there are certain topics and theories that I also dismiss and ignore, but I'm not necessarily inclined to support eliminating them from this forum altogether)


[edit on 13-6-2010 by Malcram]

Originally posted by Malcram
Further, your statement appears to be based on the assumption that you know or can judge what is "highly speculative" and what is not when it comes to the issue of UFO's, which is obviously impossible, because no one knows.

It's all speculative.

The difference is, there are speculations we prefer and others we don't. But that's a personal perspective and a personal preference. Why should the pet speculations of a certain section of the membership be given preferential treatment?

Good point, it is all speculative, but I believe I can distinguish between speculative and highly speculative and I believe the mods can too because 95% of the time, I agree with them about which is which and I usually don't complain about the 5% where I disagree, it's close enough.

For example, if someone posts a video, the video itself is evidence. If it's not clear, we can speculate about what the video shows us. I find this fun and entertaining if the video isn't something ridiculous, and it's the kind of speculative topic that seems to fit so well in the UFO forum.

But when the evidence is lacking, and there are claims made which seem too far outside the mainstream, then it becomes highly speculative.

Yes there's a gray area in the middle somewhere that's a little subjective, but if I'm in agreement with the mods 95% of the time, I can't be that far off with them on where the boundaries of that gray area are.

Originally posted by Malcram
That quote I just posted by Springer got me thinking.

Am I the only one who has noticed that an ideological 'coup' has been happening at this forum over the past few years, with the forum deviating significantly from it's original stated purpose as enshrined in the mission statements due to a number of very vocal members attempting to remake it into something more to their liking?

[edit on 13-6-2010 by Malcram]

If you consider people taking a stand against the crackpots a coup then I agree, but I'm all for it. I don't have to embrace the lunatic ravings by people like Hoagland, Icke etc to enjoy ATS. And if I want to express my opinions about these lunatics I can, as long as I follow the T&C.

reply to post by Malcram


I don't have an issue with speculation.

Speculating means to ponder, review, or theorize something.

When someone makes a post saying they are channeling or contacting entities without any proof and expect you to accept it as fact, that is not speculative.

If the forums stuck to speculative threads, it would be a much better place.

I don't think anyone on the board should push Jesus, Ashtar, Kyron, Ra, Seth, Ramtha, or Cthulhu.

Thats not speculating, thats proselytism.

Put in a New age forum, put it in a Religion forum.

Otherwise if its posted as speculation, it should be stated as such and open to criticism and debate. If its not open to criticism and debate, it needs to be elsewhere.



[edit on 14/6/10 by MikeboydUS]

Just from a newbies perspective, this is sometimes a really tough crowd.
Do I fall into the category of believer? Yes. Have I seen things? Yes. Have they been UFO's? I have no idea, I just know they didn't seem "Right."

Now being a newbie around here, it takes one a bit of time to "Learn the ropes."
I know for me,
in my excitement to share with my new friends, I did it the only way I knew how. Yes, I posted videos I made that happened to be on youtube. Was I trying to get my youtube ratings up? NO! I was just trying to share something that I had come across in my travels pre ATS.

Boy did I get spanked for that. Old members wasted no time letting me know that was a no no. Thankfully, admins were a little more gentle.

Ok so maybe one of my videos was just a light in the daytime sky. I really tried to focus and break down what my question was. Obviously it was just written off as a lens flare yada yada. Others I felt gave it some actual thought.

So I post another video. Now this time, some people actually seemed like they watched it and actually got what I was trying to get across in my own humble way. Others from the "Other side" still clearly stated it's a bird, its a bug, the usual routine. Now they wanted circles, arrows, diagrams. Oye.
Meantime other readers tried to clearly say they could see what I was saying, or trying to point out, and tried themselves to make it clear.

So back I go to try and re edit what I thought was pretty clear in the first place. I tried to be a good little ATS member and actually figure out how to post it to this site and not youtube. Guess I did something wrong because you don't actually see the whole video, but the point is I am trying.

I think sometimes folks just don't really listen, look, or read what is actually in front of them, or they don't take the time to actually follow through. Yes it probably is a lot of ego involved and that is sad, because so much gets lost because people just want to get heard and forget to listen.

Not all of us were fortunate enough to have a good education to learn the big words, much less punctuation etc. I really think folks should try and look a little past that and try and read beyond unfortunate spelling errors and read with their hearts to try and understand what their fellow man is trying to say.
I am a typo monster, but that doesn't mean I don't have anything to say that may be noteworthy.
So, that's my two cents on why maybe at least the newbies don't quite have it right yet.

Hark! Yes, your forums are stale and stagnant! I am here to say that your UFO truth is not in this forum. It is in the sky!! Just saw some excellent aerial displays 10 mins ago... not by reading the forum, but going outside, looking up, and acknowledging that not all these lights are stars proved UFOs to me. There is no debate to the existence. Telepathy is used to say hi, then they respond - it is very easy guys! If I just "look" nothing happens - boring ass sky.... If you "connect" then you will be in for quite a surprise. Usually brighter = better.... if you are serious about learning the truth - this is what worked for me.


For all the debunker fags... you go outside and do this # too. I just watched lights in space fly like nothing you could imagine just by saying hi. I have no idea what the lights are, but its a lot more exciting than our loud ass planes that constantly fly over my house. God damn they move fast... but maybe it has something to do with time moving faster due to less gravity in space? I am not a physicist, but damn theres some cool stuff happening that #heads are keeping from you. I would like to curbstop anyone who keeps information from me "for my own safety". Metaphorically.

I would say excuse my language, but it is 2010. We are killing children and women in the middle east in the name of peace. Saying "# debunker disinformation faggots" is the least of your worries.

Go Outside!!! Look Up!!!! Connect!!!

One thing that has not been mentioned is the incorrect use of the word "debunk". Most people think 'debunk' means to analyse a footage thouroughly and make a conclusion. In fact it means to ridicule the subject being investigated.

If you care to look up the dictionary , you will get a definition such as the following :

Verb 1. debunk - expose while ridiculing; especially of pretentious or false claims and ideas; "The physicist debunked the psychic's claims"

So , all you debunkers out there, I hope you will start taking objection to that word being use to describe you because I think that a lot of you believe in UFOs and just want to check the evidence.