Israeli - Palestinian conflict by the numbers (The numbers don't lie)

reply to post by airspoon


By the way, I've opened a thread just for you comparing Israel to the nazis..
Should be interesting for you to read.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Also you were talking about serving in the Gaza strip and coming into contact with soldiers, could you elaborate on that? Where were you, what unit were the soldiers from, when was it, etc?

If your numbers are true, then the Palestinians are getting their rear-ends kicked. Maybe they should try harder.

reply to post by Eliad

Also you were talking about serving in the Gaza strip and coming into contact with soldiers, could you elaborate on that? Where were you, what unit were the soldiers from, when was it, etc?

I served in the Sinai (Zone C), with the US Army's 10th Mountain Division as part of Multinational Force & Observers or MFO, a non-NATO mission "to supervise the implementation of the security provisions of the Egyptian-Israeli Treaty of Peace and employ best efforts to prevent any violation of its terms". Some of the tasks of the mission include:

Operation of checkpoints, reconnaissance patrols, and observation posts along the international boundary and Line B, and within Zone C.

Periodic verification of the implementation of the provisions of Annex I, to be carried out not less than twice a month unless otherwise agreed by the Parties.

Additional verifications within 48 hours after the receipt of a request from either Party.

Ensure the freedom of navigation through the Strait of Tiran.

Under Agreed Arrangements, the MFO took on the additional [color=FFF380]responsibility of monitoring the deployment of Border Guards along the Egyptian side of the border between Egypt and Gaza, in the northermost part of Zone C. The MFO monitors the Border Guard Force by verifying that the deployment is consistent with the terms agreed between Egypt and Israel (as amended on 11 July 2007), including the stipulated number, characteristics and location of personnel, weapons, equipment and infrastructure of the Border Guard Force.

Also, for several years, I worked side-by-side with an IDF Col. who was in an advisory role to my unit, independant of MFO and for anti-terrorism tactics that my unit trained for. Any more information than that and I will be compromising my anonymity.

Furthermore, I actually studied that region and its history in college, before I actually took part in the MFO effort.

--airspoon






[edit on 11-6-2010 by airspoon]

reply to post by Eliad

Please allow me to educate you shortly.
Ilan pappe is a left wing extremist nut- He interprets things as he wants to see them, and then shows them as he wants them to be seen. I would advise you never to follow the opinions of an extremist on any side of the playing field.

True to form, whenever someone has the courage to reveal the true atrocities that Israel has perpetrated on the Palestinians, they are branded left wing extremist nuts. I'm surprised that you didn't throw in Israel's fan boys favourite taunt for good measures, and that is to call Ilan Pappe a "self hating Jew"

You, I'm afraid, are the one that need drastic re-education.

The days when people will swallow the lies and half truths that you are spewing are long gone. Israel's reputation of falsifying evidence, disseminating of lies and misinformation has now gain world wide notoriety.

If you need further education or clarification on ethnic cleansing, this would be a good place to start.

"Ethnic cleansing happens

when Israel connects the Jewish settlement of Kiryat Arba with that of Hebron by a promenade which cuts the heart of Palestinian Hebron and necessitates the demolition of scores of Palestinian houses along the route, described as “uninhabited”, as being “shelter to terrorists” or as “belonging to rich families living elsewhere”.

Ethnic cleansing happens

when Israel builds a security fence on Palestinian fields, cutting them from their owners; the farmers cannot access their land and are forced to find their living elsewhere.

Ethnic cleansing happens

when settlers terrorise the Palestinian village of Khirbet Yanun, break into houses destroying whatever they find; last October, only two old men were left of the whole village, the rest of its population had taken refuge in the neighbouring town of Akrabeh.

Ethnic cleansing

is the motivation behind every new acre taken by Jewish settlements, behind “security zones” and “by-pass roads”, behind fences and military outposts. It is behind every siege and closure, aimed at reducing Palestinian movement to their immediate surroundings, confining them to their enclave, to their town or village, to their house. The fenced Gaza Strip is already termed “the great prison” by its own inhabitants; last week, Israel once again cut it into three separate zones.”

Source: Letter From Israel by Ran HaCohen

Even the Pope's justice minister, Cardinal Renato Martino, has sharply criticised Israel's actions and likened the Gaza Strip to a

"big concentration camp"

. Are you going to label him a left wing extremist nut too?

What about South Africa's former Deputy Minister of Health and MP Nozizwe Madlala-Routledge who having visited Israel and Occupied Palestine described it

"worse than apartheid"

“What I see here is worse than what we experienced - the absolute control of people’s lives, the lack of freedom of movement, the army presence everywhere, the total separation and the extensive destruction we saw....racist ideology is also reinforced by religion, which was not the case in South Africa.”

SIR Gerald Kaufman, the veteran British Labour MP, compared the actions of Israeli troops in Gaza to the Nazis who forced his family to flee Poland.

Sir Gerald, an orthodox Jew and Zionist, said:

“My grandmother was ill in bed when the Nazis came to her home town…
a German soldier shot her dead in her bed.

“My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza. The present Israeli government ruthlessly and cynically exploits the continuing guilt from gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians.”

He said the claim that many of the Palestinian victims were militants “was the reply of the Nazi” and added: “I suppose the Jews fighting for their lives in the Warsaw ghetto could have been dismissed as militants.”

Former President Carter has this to say.

“Innocent Palestinian people are being treated like animals, with the presumption that they are guilty of some crime. Because they voted for candidates who are members of Hamas, the United States government has become the driving force behind an apparently effective scheme of depriving the general public of income, access to the outside world and the necessities of life.”

“Regardless of these intricate and long-term political interrelationships, it is unconscionable for Israel, the United States and others under their influence to continue punishing the innocent and already persecuted people of Palestine. The Israelis are withholding approximately $55 million a month in taxes and customs duties that, without dispute, belong to the Palestinians."

I guess in your eyes, these people are all left wing extremist nuts.

reply to post by airspoon


Sanai? You mean Sinai?

So you were mostly operating either on the border or a bit further into Gaza?
How far into Gaza were you allowed to go, if at all?

Also where did you come in contact with Israeli soldiers?

What did you see there? Did you find any tunnels? Smuggling?
Were you ever in danger? Did you ever get shot at? Has any of the man on the mission ever been hurt?
I know this is a bit off topic, but it's interesting.

Also, kudos for doing this job.

reply to post by Eliad


You, my friend, live in a dark, dark bubble.

I hope you open up your eyes like many other Jews around the world are starting to, in opposition to this inhuman government in Israel, and start supporting a much needed regime change.

Originally posted by TXRabbit

Originally posted by Team Locke
I think I have the solution to the whole problem. Get the Hamas terrorist to quit launching rockets into Israel. Leave them alone. Then if Israeal attacks anyone you can cry foul. Until then you statistics don't mean much unless you also provide the provoking factors which caused the end results.

Just a suggestion.

WOOT!

Page 6 baby! PAGE 6!!!

I think I have the solution to the whole problem too. Get the Israeli terrorists to quit occupying and blocading territories which do not belong to them, both demographically and historically. Then if Hamas attacks anyone you can cry foul. Until then, your criticism of Hamas doesnt mean much unless you also provide the provoking factors which caused the end results.

Just a suggestion.

Page six too, baby!

WOOT!!

Double post.

[edit on 11-6-2010 by Maslo]

reply to post by Eliad


Actually by definition it is genocide.

reply to post by A Conscience


The point was that whatever you may call him he took history and gave it an interpretation.

In a time of war the new found state of Israel found its villages surrounded by hostile Arab villages.
This was a time of war, mind you.
Would you not have vacated those villages? Seeing as they act as base of operations for the Arab armies, seeing as the population of the village itself was attacking the Jewish ones?

Of course you would. And it has nothing to do with ethnicity. It is merely strategy, and it makes perfect sense to do so.

Look, this action makes sense, okay? It makes sense to not let your villages be surrounded by enemy camps and villages.
And they only acted withing the UN established borders!

Can't you at least admit that it makes sense to do so even without the ethnic cleansing thing?
Can't you admit that it might have been a strategic decision seeing as how Arab villages were used for war against the Jewish ones, and that Plan D only concerned itself with UN established borders?
Doesn't it make sense?
Are you that stuck on your own opinions that you can't see beyond them?

I will admit that I also think the Israelis wanted to kick the Palestinians out of their borders, but not merely because they are Arabs, but because they were attacking us...
If it was ethnic cleansing, why are there still Druze in Israel? Why do they live and work and serve in the army?
Why are there Israeli Arabs? Why do they study side by side with Jews? Live side by side with them?
My girlfriend is Arab Israeli, how would that be possible if there was ethnic cleansing?

You see this is the thing- I don't need a drastic re-education. I'm pretty moderate in my opinions, I love my country, but I can still condemn it, because I know it. I know what it is and what it's like. I know the army, and I know who's in it.
I've been in contact with Palestinian population as a soldier only 2 years ago. I know how they're treated.
I can tell you this is neither ethnic, nor is it cleansing.
Above all else, this has nothing to do with the fact that they're Palestinians. This has everything to do with the fact that hamas is not allowing us to create peace.
Look at the west bank if you don't believe me. In spite of everything that goes on there- There is no terrorism coming out of there. The cities are growing, and people live well there, and getting better every day.
They are of the same ethnicity as the people of Gaza.

In light of these facts, would you reconsider your statements? Acknowledge the fact that this has nothing to do with race?
And as for cleansing- We are not trying to clean them out in any way.. Only 0.002% of their population have been killed in the last 10 years and that's including terrorists which are more than 60% of those numbers.
So, once more, this has nothing to do with cleansing as well..

As for the promenade- Wasn't it canceled by order of the high court of Israel?

As for the fence- I agree this should not have happened, but I wonder if you've ever followed through, or were satisfied with what you've read, as when it is necessary for the fence to go through private land, then private land is requisitioned, not confiscated, and it remains the property of the owner. Legal procedures allow every owner to file an objection to the use of their land. When private lands are used, owners are offered full compensation, in accordance with the law; this compensation is offered both as a lump sum and also on a monthly basis.

As for the settlers- Assholes, scumbags, and not Jewish in my eyes.
Notice how these are just singular events and not a full spread epidemic, as we do preach for hate.
Also this is still not ethnic cleansing.

And as for settlements- We got out of Gaza, hopefully we'll come to an agreement with the west bank. Also settlements take up 2% of the west bank (AFAIK, need to verify)

With respect,
Eliad.

reply to post by Kharron


I hope you're wrong.
Look, I'm not saying I support the settlements, I'm not saying we shouldn't go back to the 67' borders, I'm not saying we're saints, and I'm not saying we're sinners.
I can't tell for sure if the real intention behind the 1948 was ethnic cleansing, I'm just saying there are other logical reasons.
Maybe we should all grow up and realize that Israel exists, and nothing can change it, whether we like it or not at the end of the Independence war all Arab nations and Israel signed the document stating the 67' borders- On the backs of the Palestinians, I admit.
Yes, everyone's an asshole here, and this is all politics, the whole reason the Arab nations invaded in the first place was that each one can get a piece of Palestine.
You think I don't see it, but I see it.

But it's irrelevant now. This was a document signed by and agreed on by the world, and today even the Palestinians agree to the 67' borders as long as they get compensated for what they've lost. Yes, it is partly because they have no choice, but we don't have a choice either.
We can't go back from where we are now. We can remove the settlements but that's it.

We are a new generation of Israeli and Palestinians. We are our fathers' sons, but we are not their choices.

Right now in Palestine there is no genocide.
Right now in Palestine there is no ethnic cleansing.

There is however hate between the two people.
There is discrimination.
There are crimes.
There is terror.
But it is never as bad as the news bring you to think. And if you're interested only in people that de-legitimize Israel then you're definitely getting only half the picture.

Once we get these settlements out it would all be over. There will be peace between us and the west bank.
And after hamas is gone there will be peace in Gaza. And we will all try and get along, until enough generation pass by when all the hate is gone.

With respect,
Eliad.


[edit on 11-6-2010 by Eliad]

reply to post by airspoon


Ok so numbers dont lie. They also fail to tell a story of what they're representing.

These two groups of people are at WAR. They are both responsible for the accidental killing of their own children. But what people seem to be forgetting is Israel is a better fighting force, with better weapons, better training, and the will to LIVE.

Terrorist organizations generally have little to no training, they dont mind blowing THEMSELVES up for Allah, and they love to hide in groups of innocent civilians and children.

So my point is what do the numbers really tell you? That Palestine suffers more civilian casualties? Considering the difference in fighting techniques that is hardly surprising.

Think about combat during WWII in the Pacific, U.S. forces fighting the Japanese... The Japanese suffered MANY casualties, civilian and military. And you want to tell me it was the U.S. Marine Corps fault that the Japanese would rather die before surrender? That they engaged in suicide attacks? That even after one of their cities was decimated by an atomic bomb, (killing so many innocent women & children) the Japanese STILL would not stop fighting, and it was somehow OUR fault? It took another bomb and more civilian deaths to finally get them to stop.

The similarities here are striking.

My argument is nothing more than a simple question; if two sides go to war, and one side incurs more losses than the other, which side is at fault?!

My answer: Both. But in the case of Palestine, if you hide behind women and children, dont be shocked when they get caught in the fray.....

judging by the numbers, it seems the Israelis are on the verge of extinction.


lol just kidding.

witherspoon.

Yuk-yuk.
Certainly Palestinians are suffering, gosh I really believe that any torture to human beings is an issue for the our world to resolve.

But Israel has suffered too.

Decoy

i]reply to post by WhiteDevil013

Ok so numbers dont lie. They also fail to tell a story of what they're representing.

The goal of this thread was to present the facts and the objective evidence so that readers may interpret those facts on their own. With Israel, it would seem that people aren't given the facts and allowed to make up their own minds. All too often, the facts are hidden because of what they reveal and so the only information they are getting, is subjective accounts that are nothing more than propaganda, from either side.

“Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of real peace.” --Dalai Lama

I apologize if the facts don't meet your your view of the situation but they are what they are.

“The essence of knowledge is, having it, to apply it; not having it, to confess your ignorance.” --Confucius

These two groups of people are at WAR. They are both responsible for the accidental killing of their own children. But what people seem to be forgetting is Israel is a better fighting force, with better weapons, better training, and the will to LIVE.

You see, it isn't only the killing that is the problem here. The Palestinian people live in fear of terror all day every day. They are an oppressed people, similar to the Jews of Western Europe in the early to mid 20th Century, only in some ways much worse off. The killing is just a symptom of the much bigger problem.

Furthermore, having much better weapons and being better at war would allow one to reduce civilian casualties. If someone takes my wallet and I watch them run into a building, I cannot claim civilian deaths if I choose to bomb the entire building. Going further, if I entice someone through entrapment or trickery to take my wallet, I am not justified in bombing the entire town to kill that one person. I can not claim civilian deaths as an accident.

It is extremely arguable that Israel is the instigator here, though you won't ever hear that from the pro-Zionist western media. Have doubts about our censored western media? Just take a look at what happened to Helen Thomas. In fact, if you research a little, you would find that Helen Thomas is just but one in a long list of people, including politicians, who lose their careers, freedom and even life for criticizing the secular government of Israel. They do what it takes to ensure that Israel is not shown in a bad light by the MSM. That is ignorance by the definition of the word. Lets deny ignorance together, after all isn't this the purpose of this sight?

Terrorist organizations generally have little to no training, they dont mind blowing THEMSELVES up for Allah, and they love to hide in groups of innocent civilians and children.

While that may be true for some Muslims around the world, Islam is usually only used as a motivator to achieve a political goal of their superiors. If the west was in a majorly defensive role, rest assured that Jesus would be used in the same way, to get people to perform extraordinary acts for political goals.

In fact, most Palestinians aren't even orthodox in their religion which would make fundamentalism minute. Furthermore, Israel and the west has the missiles, air superiority and methods to deliver explosives effectively. The Muslims do not. The only way they have to accurately deliver their weapons is to strap them to a live person. Delivery of munitions should not be important and it should be noted that the west would resort to the same measures, given the same circumstances and the only way to recruit such a volunteer, is to use religion as a motivator. It's nothing new and Christians have done it before. In fact, it would be safe to say that many Medal of Honor recipients had the same frame of mind as a suicide bomber. Giving your life for the perceived greater good of your people.

As far as the Palestinians hiding behind children, that is inherently false. Do you have any proof of this or is this something you heard on CNN and then post it here as if fact?

Hamas was created in 1987 by leaders of Palestinian wing of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood in response to the oppression of the Palestinian people. Their sole purpose was to fight for the people of Palestine. It would make no sense for them to not care about their people's lives. Also, the people of Gaza would not have democratically elected Hamas to government if Hamas was using them as human shields. Furthermore, Israel has proven that they will easily shoot women and children so again, it makes no sense for them to hide behind these people that would not offer an effective shield. That makes no sense what-so-ever. That statement alone, about Palestinians hiding behind women and children or using them as shields, defeats the whole purpose for the existence of Hamas in the first place and their would be no tactical benefit either, as the Israelis shoot women women and children with no consequence at all.

That excuse seems to be one made up by Israel, to excuse the murder of these women and children and they count on ignorant people to eat it all up. I guess it's working.

So my point is what do the numbers really tell you? That Palestine suffers more civilian casualties? Considering the difference in fighting techniques that is hardly surprising.

Again, my intent for this thread was to only provide the facts and leave it up to the reader to discern the meaning behind the facts. Anything else is subjective. In fact, I used extremely conservative numbers in an effort to avoid controversy. The sad fact of the matter is that the numbers are much higher, with a much larger difference between the sides. By you trying to discredit the numbers, I can only assume that these numbers contradict your own personal view of the situation. Instead of learning and denying ignorance, you try to discredit the facts or skew them to suit your own biases.

Think about combat during WWII in the Pacific, U.S. forces fighting the Japanese... The Japanese suffered MANY casualties, civilian and military. And you want to tell me it was the U.S. Marine Corps fault that the Japanese would rather die before surrender? That they engaged in suicide attacks? That even after one of their cities was decimated by an atomic bomb, (killing so many innocent women & children) the Japanese STILL would not stop fighting, and it was somehow OUR fault? It took another bomb and more civilian deaths to finally get them to stop.

The difference here is that US soldiers weren't oppressing the Japanese over decades, nor were they imprisoning the Japanese without the basic supplies of life. Furthermore, the Marines were going on forays of killing into Japanese held territory. Also, we had declared war on Japan for a strike on Pearl Harbor. These are two completely different situations and strategies with a couple tactics that may look or sound the same. You are confusing a few similar tactics with strategy and the situation as a whole.

Even though off-topic, I would like to address you comment on the A-Bomb. Are you trying to suggest that this was warranted or justified? Do you think Islamic terrorism is justified? Killing civilians in a effort to "scare" people for political goals is the very definition of terrorism. If you believe the official conspiracy theory of 9/11 or really any theory of 9/11, then you believe that those buildings came down in an effort to terrorize people to meet a political goal. How can you justify one but not the other? That is the very essence of ignorance.

--airspoon

Continued below...

...Continued from Top

reply to post by WhiteDevil013

The similarities here are striking.

No, the similarities aren't striking. A few tactics were similar but the situation and environment variables are entirely different. They only seem similar to someone who isn't familiar with either subject. The tactics are the same so on the surface without any research, they may resemble each other but only in the realm of ignorance.

My argument is nothing more than a simple question; if two sides go to war, and one side incurs more losses than the other, which side is at fault?!

Well, your lack of knowledge is striking. Not only do women and children not "go to war" but supposedly Israel is not at war with these people.

Also, Israel is famous for agreeing to peace terms and then breaking those terms without warning. The Palestinians simply want peace. It would seem that Israel is committing genocide and the little effort to fight back by the Palestinians is getting skewed into "terrorism" while ignoring the instigator. One side wants peace and the other side wants genocide. Does this sound like "war" to you. It's not war when you indiscriminately kill off an entire people, it is genocide plain and simple.

My answer: Both. But in the case of Palestine, if you hide behind women and children, don't be shocked when they get caught in the fray.....

Again, you are taking subjective propaganda and trying to pass it off as objective fact, as if your are knowledgeable on the situation. The motto of this site is to "deny ignorance" yet you seem to propagate it. What's wrong with this picture? It is completely ignorant to think that they would "hide" behind their women and children and it only takes 10 seconds to search youtube or google for thousands of videos of IDF shooting women and children. Are these child deaths the same ones that were supposedly human shields for the people tasked with protecting them? Probably though the excuse of human shields is just propaganda to excuse the systematic murder of children by Israel.

--airspoon

The End

When you have a culture that purposely and deliberately devalues life, by encouraging young women and children to act as suicide bombers to kill innocent civilian Jews in Israel, combined with the terrorist activities of a virulent strain of radical extremists in the form of Hamas and Hezbollah, how do you expect Israel to defend itself?

When Hamas deliberately hides itself among civilian populations, should Israel be blamed for the loss of innocent civilian lives that are lost in the crossfire of war?

Why should we buy into the claim of the terrorists that hide among innocent civilians? Shouldn't the terrorists be blamed for hiding among the civilian populace? Why blame Israel for attacking Hamas if Hamas deliberately chooses to hide among innocent civilians?

On all sides, Israel is surrounded by enemies that want nothing more but to annihilate and destroy the Jewish people as a whole. They hate Israel. They hate the Jewish people. The enemies that surround the State of Israel want nothing more than the complete and utter destruction of the Jews.

There is no compromise on their part - It's all or nothing. They don't want to negotiate - They want the Jews killed in totality.

This is, unfortunately, a zero sum game. The venomous hatred against the Jewish people in Israel is fostered at a very young age by the enemies of Israel. It's embedded in their culture, and education of their young ones --- thus becoming an infectious hatred passed down from one generation to another.

These differences have a long, long history, going back to the days of the Old Testament. There is very little that can be done by the State of Israel until the hatred of the Jewish people ends.

Helen Thomas, in her disgusting comments about the State of Israel, recently suggested that the Jews should move back to Germany and Poland. How fast she forgets the reasons why the Jews fled Germany and Poland in the first place.

"From the beginning, Hamas espoused the anti-semitism of the Muslim Brotherhood's leading thinkers, Hasah al-Banna and Sayyid Qutb. This fact is clear from its own ideological credo formulated as the Islamic covenant in 1988, which not only calls for Islam to eliminate Israel but also states "our struggle against the Jews is extremely wide-ranging and grave." It cites the Hadith... in noting that at the end of time, Muslims will fight the Jews and kill them. The covenant and other Hamas publications draw on the libels of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, accusing Jews of a universal conspiracy for world domination... Some of the anti-semitic canards are backed in the covenant by Koranic proof texts." Levy, Richard S., "Anti-semitism: A Historical Encyclopedia of Prejudice and Persecution", 2005, p. 289, ISBN 1851094393

The whole purpose of Hamas (literally "Islamic Resistance Movement") is the creation of an Islamic state in Israel, and the obliteration of the Jews in Israel.

After 911, you would think we Americans would finally understand the dangers of radical Islam -- Dangers that the State of Israel has been dealing with for decades now.

[edit on 12-6-2010 by CookieMonster09]

reply to post by airspoon

The Palestinian people live in fear of terror all day every day.

Bull#.
Seeing as you've spent a day or two in the Gaza strip you should know that.
Do you really think that right now they're living in fear of anything?
Maybe for fear of the hamas..

Also when you talk about the Palestinians as a whole you must take the west bank into the equasion. When was the last time anyone bombed in the west bank?
Why is that?
Would you agree that your statement was not correct, or at least inaccurate?

[edit on 12-6-2010 by Eliad]

equasion??

Actually,seeing as your a stickler for correct spellings that would be EQUATION....

Gaza civilians DO live in fear....fear of snipers shooting their children, fear of giving birth at checkpoints, fear of struggling to provide for their family so limited are their opportunities in the GHETTO iSRAEL CREATED...., fear of white phosphorous.....Yes Sirreee, thats F-E-A-R...fear.


Stop trying to sell yourself off as a moderate...you are nothing of the sort...

Airspoon's statistics are FACTUAL....

Why are you trying to dispute this??

The old Smoke and Mirrors trick.....seen it before from your type....

From Article 7 of the Hamas Charter, 1988, a quote attributed to Mohammed:

"The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him."

Hamas is ideologically opposed to Judaism and the State of Israel. Hamas is anti-semitic to the core, and its leaders have repeatedly denied the Nazi Holocaust. The whole goal of Hamas is to establish an Islamic state in Israel, and annihilate the Jews.

There is no compromise with Hamas - Their ideology is totalitarian in nature. If the Jews want to survive, the State of Israel has no other choice but to defend itself using the strongest of measures.

According to Amnesty International, between 2000-2004 more than 100 Israeli children were killed and hundreds of others injured in suicide bombings, shootings and other attacks carried out by Palestinian armed groups in Israel.

This kind of violence targeted against Israeli children has been going on since the 1970's. The Ma'alot massacre, the Avivim school bus massacre, the Kiryat Shmona massacre, etc. are all examples of this.

[edit on 12-6-2010 by CookieMonster09]