Flotilla Weapons shown by Israel taken in 2006-03?

Originally posted by InfaRedMan

And that is proof of what exactly? A date? At this point, I think you're grasping at straws. Believe me when I say I am not on Israels side... but I don't see much evidence here that these photo's were a set-up from years ago.

IRM

Who said anything about the photos being "setup?" People are arguing that they are simply using old photos of what could have once been a legitimate arms seizure.

You honestly don't think a major government can hold onto a few photos without showing them to anyone. Ever heard the word "classified" before?

With the date stamp there is certainly more evidence that the pictures are old rather than new.

[edit on 3-6-2010 by andrewh7]

Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
Are you suggesting that for all this time, they have been sitting on these photographs in case the flotilla incident ever occurred?

Does Israel have a time machine or something!

By your logic, every time a news report includes an archive photo, they must have previously travelled forward in time to see the photo would be needed, and then taken it specially.

Sorry, use of archive material does not prove time travel.

Well said.

That guy who videotaped the Kennedy assassination must have known it was going to happen. NASA taped the challenger explosion so they must have known it was going to happen.

[edit on 3-6-2010 by andrewh7]

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
It's not really proof that these pictures are old. It can simply mean that whoever took the pictures was too slack to ever set the date on the cameras.

IRM

You apparently aren't aware of the fact that people don't use videotapes to record movies. They use computers and those dates are set automatically by the operating system. No one sets the date and time on the camera.

reply to post by Mobius1974


They make 2.5 hp angle grinders.. In case you dont know that would take you into 2 pieces in seconds.


Yeah and the terrorsits made sure no one tripped over the extension lead..

What a joke......Ohh hang on, maybe the extension lead was a weapon too

Originally posted by andrewh7

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
It's not really proof that these pictures are old. It can simply mean that whoever took the pictures was too slack to ever set the date on the cameras.

IRM

You apparently aren't aware of the fact that people don't use videotapes to record movies. They use computers and those dates are set automatically by the operating system. No one sets the date and time on the camera.

You apparently don't use digital cameras. The time and date MUST be set in the camera, or else it reverts back to the date of the flash memory inside the camera. That time and date is what the camera uses when it puts a timestamp on the picture itself, and it's what it uses to write the EXIF data into the file when the picture is taken. When you transfer the picture to a computer, it will have a timestamp of the time and date of that transfer on the file itself, but the EXIF inside the file remains unchanged from whatever was set in the camera.

Just so you'll know, the time on your computer has to be initially set, too, when the operating system is installed. The 'automatic' date and time are corrections to the minutes obtained from a time server on the internet. Mine gets it's corrections from the US Naval Observatory time signal. The daylight Savings Time corrections are handled by a small program resident in the operating system itself, and just adjusts plus or minus an hour on the proper dates.

Originally posted by aching_knuckles
Instead of everyone screaming "OMG ISRAEL PROPAGANDA WRONG DATE!@!!", everyone wants Israel proved guilty should be happy these pictures showed up, as there arent any weapons in this photo, just stuff they used from around the ship, which would bolster the claim of the flotilla, self defense.

I think I clicked this star thing, and I think that means I support this post which I most definitely not. Just had to point it out.

The general claim of the flotilla was not self defense. The claimed purpose was humanitarian aid, but supplies go to the strip all the time, and it was offered more than once that supplies brought by the flotilla could undergo inspection for weapons and be brought there as well. The real purpose was to make Israel look like the bad guy. Interestingly enough, another flotilla is on the way, but now that some of the ships carrying journalists broke, they're trying to call it off. Because we all know how important journalists are for giving aid. Hint: they're not, but if you're trying to make propaganda...

Speaking of which, notice how the original post seeks to cast doubt on the authenticity of the images released, but once it's been shown that the whole premise is wrong, some of the posters completely ignore it (maybe they didn't read the rest - they're just here to spew their nonsense), and others shift to completely different topics (different lies it should be said, I'll address it in a minute). This is typical of fanaticism - when confronted with a refutal of a claim they make they just "move on". They can't respond because there is no valid basis, but also because that would mean having to face being wrong.

These people do not care about the truth, they care to spread their message, and on the way they flood topics and prevent actual ordered discussion. This is the anti-Israel propaganda. Things like this:

It has become a rite of passage for Israelis to kill at least one Palestinian during their required military service.

Really? Wow. Or this:



Let's go back to the flotilla. The pictures do not show firearms, but they do show items which can be used as cold weapons. This is indeed what happened. Soldiers boarding the ship had paintball guns and personal firearms. The primary item was the paintball gun as a crowd control meause because a demonstration type resistance was expected. The pistols were not used until after being attacked by a mob trying to kill them.



On other ships no one was hurt, because the soldiers were not attacked.

reply to post by andrewh7


WRONG... I am lazy and have't changed the date and time on an old Camera and old Video camera... I just went and checked them. .. The camera has a date of 01/24/08 and the video camera was dead.. So I checrged the battery and turned it on and hit record.. The time stamp is 01/01/05 Thats pretty close to when I bought it. I think that the "evil" "zionists" are smart enough to chage them if they were in face old pictures. I think the DID NOT change them so that all of you israel disectors couldn't accuse them of manipulating the pictures.. You really think that they "missed" the dates and posted those? Wow one minute you accuse them of very very complex stealth actions against the world.. then pause and say that they are so stupid they just missed the dates? wow. let me repeat wow.. There is no end some of you will go to.. Throw all logic out the window and jump on the bash Israel bus.. You need to be on a bus.. but yours is much shorter.. Remember, dont lick the windows and put your helmet on!

Originally posted by Mobius1974

I think that the "evil" "zionists" are smart enough to chage them if they were in face old pictures. I think the DID NOT change them so that all of you israel disectors couldn't accuse them of manipulating the pictures.. You really think that they "missed" the dates and posted those? Wow one minute you accuse them of very very complex stealth actions against the world.. then pause and say that they are so stupid they just missed the dates?

You bring up an interesting point. There IS software out there to change any individual item or all of it in the EXIF data. It took me forever to find any that would work, but it's out there and available.

had the Israelis been trying to 'cover up' anything or nefariously use old stock photos, they would without a doubt have either changed that info, or simply gotten rid of it. Re-saving the image in some software is enough to save the original without the EXIF data. Irfanview gives you the option to re-save with or without EXIF, but won't let you change it. I had to find other programs to do that, so I could build in identifying features into some photos where it would go unnoticed... and that was a slight, but identifiable change in the EXIF.

Strangely, none of my higher-end graphics software lets me tinker with the EXIF at all, although I think Photoshop stamps it with a photoshop ID on a save of an edited image.

Reply to post by tinkr

But if the camera was first produced in 2006 and bought then(I doubt this photographer is buying a 4 year old camera) wouldn't the date be counting up since the time of purchase? I actually bought a canon in 06 before I started college and I never set the date, but it has been counting up ever since then.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by nenothtu


Hey, it's the old 'he couldn't have stabbed him because he has blood on his hands and a knife and if he was guilty would have cleaned them and hid the knife' defense...



Regarding the latest incident; if we can just rationalize what happened hard enough, well maybe then all will be well.

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
[ Are you suggesting that for all this time, they have been sitting on these photographs in case the flotilla incident ever occurred?

Does Israel have a time machine or something!

Its not called time machine, but archive footing. And yes, Israel has it definitely. As has your local newspaper or any pro photographer worth its pay.
Archive footing can be useg legitimately to illustrate something, but if it is used to proof something that happened long after the picture was taken, it is a lie.

Originally posted by tinkr

Let's go back to the flotilla. The pictures do not show firearms, but they do show items which can be used as cold weapons. This is indeed what happened. Soldiers boarding the ship had paintball guns and personal firearms. The primary item was the paintball gun as a crowd control meause because a demonstration type resistance was expected. The pistols were not used until after being attacked by a mob trying to kill them.

Noone denies that the "paintball" guns were used upon boarding, right?
That the "mob was trying to kill" is so far nothing but a claim from IDF and its supporters, there are enough eye witness reports claiming that the goal of the activists was to subdue. The IDF on the other hand did use their sidearms to kill, once the situation got out of hand, which is undeniable fact.

On other ships no one was hurt, because the soldiers were not attacked.

Wrong, on the other ships noone was KILLED. Thats a big difference.

I wish that more people would actually research cameras when they look at the EXIF data.

Pictures 5 and 6 are not fakes. They are real. Not a sloppy attempt at propaganda like some people are saying as they wag fingers at the EXIF data.

How would I know? They were taken on January 1, 2003. The Pentax Optio 550 was announced on February 18, 2003. That is a full month and a half after the picture was allegedly taken.

That discrepancy shows that it is a firmware default. Which means that it could have been taken at anytime later than February 18, 2003 but something caused the system to time stamp pictures on the first day of the year. Like changing batteries unexpectedly.

EXIF data is not reliable. My Canon Rebel XSi thinks its 2004 every single time the battery quits on me.

SOURCE: Pentax Optio 550 announced at PMA 2003

That should kill the speculation over the cameras.

[edit on 4-6-2010 by Dnevnoi]

IHH has terrorist connections. The CIA investigated it in the 1990s, then the Turkish government launched raids on IHH offices and houses, finding weapons and bomb making instructions. They have a history of sending weapons and fighters to war zones such as Chechnya, Bosnia, and Afghanistan.

Israel was entirely justified to board a ship being financed by IHH.

Don't take my word for it, take the independent research group at the Danish Institute of International Studies. (They aren't biased, they've blasted Israel's actions.)

www.diis.dk...

Originally posted by A Novel
Reply to post by tinkr

 

But if the camera was first produced in 2006 and bought then(I doubt this photographer is buying a 4 year old camera) wouldn't the date be counting up since the time of purchase? I actually bought a canon in 06 before I started college and I never set the date, but it has been counting up ever since then.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Depends on how long it sat around without batteries. If it's long enough, all the settings data is lost, and it reverts back to what was in it when it was new. Sort of like disconnecting the battery on your motherboard, and thereby resetting the BIOS.

reply to post by A Novel


Yes... But if the batteries fully run out.. It will default to the original start date.

Originally posted by Mobius1974
reply to post by A Novel

 

Yes... But if the batteries fully run out.. It will default to the original start date.

Yep happens all the time on my cannon i dont even bother to set the date anymore. So i really guess this means when i take pictures im time traveling very cool!