Emotion based arguments, fallacy, and the death of critical thinking.

We can all fall victim to emotion. We can all hand waive in a debate. We can all create straw men arguments form time to time. We can all retort angrily with opinion based or ideologically driven "beliefs".

I've done it in the past. May do it once in a while still.

But I notice there is a BOAT load of them going on here at ATS.

It just seems that people (on all sides of arguments) don't CRITICALLY think about a subject, or try to use LOGIC when weighing sides of an issue. Is it me, or does it seem like emotion is more important than research or fact?

It's frustrating. Can we all try and detach ourselves from emotion a bit more as to think through what the LOGICAL premise is? Can we try and not hand wave our way through threads?

Does anyone get what I'm trying to say...because I'm having trouble myself...lol?

It just seems like chaos sometimes. Nothing is being learned or changed. It all seems like just useless banter after a while. Aren't we capable of more? Shouldn't the internet be used for more than just 'noise'?

I dunno, it seems hopeless to care sometimes when facts are given over to emotion, fallacy, and ideology.

It sucks, because I ALSO can get angry and respond with emotion, but usually it's when I see serious debate go south.

Maybe it's been said before by someone else...if so...sorry. Maybe I'm venting because I'm scared for humanity at this point.

Yeah I get you. The majority of the members aren't like that but it is annoying when emotion based thinking derails a serious topic. Analogies do help in getting them to understand in that situation. Of cource, some people are gonna twist valid points sometimes. Even if you take a certain side, you should always consider the valid arguments on the other side.

Originally posted by Prove_It_NOW
Is it me, or does it seem like emotion is more important than research or fact?

No, its not just you. Emotion really does matter more than logic or facts.

Really.

Human beings are not rational deciders. They arent now, and they never have been. The idea that human beings make rational decisions is a myth. Human beings make emotional decisions and then they RATIONALIZE them after the fact which is a wholly different thing.

The small percentage of humans who are rational deciders are oddities, and oddly enough, we may not even make "better" decisions over all. In some cases the "irrational" emotional part of the brain is actually processing information, it is just doing so in way the rational mind cant quantify.

"Irrational" is not always "incorrect" however, which is a good thing for the rational human to remember.

reply to post by Prove_It_NOW


LOL

I “get” what you’re saying, for what it’s worth. To this I would say it really depends on the topic at hand and the contributors. If math and science is the end-all / be-all of one’s existence, then they are susceptible when a comment is viewed by them as an “attack” on what they hold dear. Same holds true for religion, for patriotism, you name it… Why do you think an affront against one’s mother is such a common and productive slander?

Emotion can have its place in an emotional situation. Someone can stick to objectivity a lot easier when detached from the subject, no? Some people are better at it than others, ‘tis true. It’s often a benchmark of maturity, objectivity, and practice. Practice helps. Seeing people shake their cyber-fists as though the volume of their rhetoric is going to sway another by force or ridicule always gives me a good chuckle.

A mindset is the toughest thing to change once it’s set.

Don’t be scared for humanity. Relish the differences! Enjoy the fact that you can stand firm in your own opinions and beliefs, while offering patience and an ear to those who rub your fur the wrong way. You may be surprised what a potent armor courtesy is. When all else fails, the blow-hards do eventually run out of air.

Originally posted by Prove_It_NOW
But I notice there is a BOAT load of them going on here at ATS.

I'm sorry but I just can't resist.

I can't believe I'm going
to do this but, well...

Evidence please.



David Grouchy

reply to post by davidgrouchy


Well a while back I asked people to watch for this-

Watch out for emotional rhetoric to try and demonize private business.

An excerpt-

I have noticed a lot of emotional hit pieces over the last 6 months, demonizing all businesses, using things that the Mega Corporations are doing, to try and get people to bypass their normal skepticism.

Yes, the things they are stating are usually true more often than not. But you have to look beyond the emotional response they are trying to get.

Ask yourself what it is they are trying to accomplish by getting you angry. Emotions bypass the normal intellectual questioning that people do.

Sorry, but small private businesses have been taking a hit over the last 30-40 years. The GOVERNMENT is in bed with big business, not small business. Why do you think the regulations that are passed are 95% of the time detrimental to small business and does not effect big business at all?

Now, this is a thread on the agenda driven emotional responses, engendered when people use corporate malfeasance as a way to push for more regulation.

If anyone knows me, I believe the banksters and the mega national corporations are a boon to mankind. That being said, using the malfeasance of criminals to institute more power to government is exactly what the government and their corporate whores want. Why not just prosecute them and sue the living daylights out of them. Of course the response will be that the banksters and corporations will just buy the politicians and courts. So their argument is a circular argument. No possibility of conclusion, just a dog chasing it's tail.

Maybe not exactly what you were looking for but I do not want to point out any specific member or other, when the emotional response will be exactly what they want.

Well there will always be the serious people nad those who are less than serious. The serious will try to avoid the usual tropes of straw men and emotive arguements But what is the solution? People write on topics that are of importance to them. What is important becomes emotive.

All that can be done is for those who are concerned about the quality of debate need to police themselves.

Given the nature of debate seen on the media and in various governments can we be suprised about our level of debate on ATS?

[edit on 24-5-2010 by Tiger5]

Originally posted by davidgrouchy

Originally posted by Prove_It_NOW
But I notice there is a BOAT load of them going on here at ATS.

I'm sorry but I just can't resist.

I can't believe I'm going
to do this but, well...

Evidence please.

David Grouchy

That was actually one of the funniest posts I've read in a while, and yes I have no life.

I guess when I joined ATS, I was excited about the "Deny Ignorance" thing. I was like "Whoa, you mean we're all going to hold each other's feet to the fire out of mutual respect for truth?"

And then I was like "Oh well, that was fun while it lasted".

Just disappointed, cuz I think the Lazernets are full of crap and BS.

endisnighe,

Megacorporations spend BILLIONS each year to give us a bunch of glossy, hyperproduced, 'feelgood' advertising.

And my rule of thumb that seems to hold true, is the glossier the advertising the more & dirtier liars they are.

Chevron's 'Human Energy' is built on all the human skulls from Nigerian devastation & elsewhere around the world.
These Oil companies are horrific, as we can see right in on our own coast with BP.

Coke injects toxic waste into wells in India, destroying the ground water & local wells so desperately poor people are forced to drink bottled water.

Bechtel & others have created water treatment schemes in South & North America that are just a means of using municipalities to defraud people & rip them off for gross profits.

Auto companies have bought & sat on patents, not to use, but to keep technologies from every seeing the light of day.
They & oil companies & their stooge, GWB killed the electric car.

Excuse me all to hell but US [really ex-patriot globalized] corporations have a terrible & scandal ridden history & present, which anyone able to see past all the TV advertising nonsense will find blatantly obvious.

And then there are all the Banks . . . .
Credit Cards,

Murder Contractors dragging this nation into Trillion dollar wars for imaginary things.

Megacorporations with a very few exceptions turn into complete viper parasites, lobbying congress for corporate welfare contracts rather than working & taking the attendant risks involved in EARNING a living.