This site gives me a chance to talk about the stuff my wife doesn't want to hear!

reply to post by Aresh Troxit


Church is "where two or three are gathered...".... not a building or institution.

okbmd:

War Eagle! I'm in huntsville.

Originally posted by gncnew

Freedom or death:
Christian Faith... sorry if I wasn't clear about that.. unless of course you're just asking "what is faith" and in that case it's a whole 'nother discussion.

The question was about Christian faith.

I would like to know more.

reply to post by Freedom or Death


Hmm.. well, it's probably a much deeper subject than we can fit into here, but I'll give my "Cliff's Notes" version. I'm going to assume you've heard all the high-level "common knowledge" stuff before but we both know what happens when you "assume".

First the short version:
I believe that God created the universe and all that's in it. I believe that after he created man, man chose a path other than God and introduced sin into themselves. I believe that this sin makes coexistence with God impossible. God's holy nature will either destroy sin or that wrath must be redirected for a sinful creation to be in contact with God.

I believe that to satiate this conflict God sent a part of himself as a man to earth. This was to show man that he fully understood the conflict, trials, temptations, and grind of what it was to be human. He also did this to teach man how to love God's creation the way He Himself loves it.

I believe that Christ then gave himself to die on the cross in a two folded sacrifice (spiritual and physical) so that the holy wrath of God could be directed away from God's sinful creation without having to destroy any other creations and thus built a bridge for man to come back in commune with God.

I belive that the "Final Battle" has already happened - and will happen, and in that time those who still chose their pride and self awareness over the acceptance of God and more importantly his sacrifice for us will be forever lost to God. No fiery pit, no pitchforks - just and endless existence of loneliness and longing to be with the creator that you can never see again.

reply to post by gncnew


Welcome to the party, pal.

reply to post by Freedom or Death



Now the long version... ROLF

I believe that in the beginning there was God, and in that trinity (God, Son, Spirit) He had created the universe and all that's in it. He created the heavenly host to manifest His glory and capacity to love.

I believe that "after" the heavens were created. God desired a creation that had a new ability: to procreate (up to this point, nothing else but God could create more life/beings/whatever). Also, up to this point - each creation had a single specific purpose. God wanted more than that. He also wanted to create a being that (spiritually) as closely resembled Him as possible - to include free will - because he desperately wanted His love he poured into His creations returned to Him by its own choosing.

Enter Adam. I think that God essentially gave Adam the "God" gene and created Adam as the first human (call it a prototype?). To facilitate the necessary "procreation" but to bind it with a method of spiritual accountability God created Eve (same creation type, different flavor). He created them both in the same image but made the specifically different in that they would require each other both physically and spiritually. This created a symbiotic relationship for humans to "need" other humans which (albeit a pale comparison) represented the same "need" of God and his creations.

Enter Lucifer. Highest of the Angles (part of the initial creation) Lucifer's job was to guard God's pure holiness. He was smarter and more beautiful than all other creations. Yest there was something different about even Lucifer when compared to man. Lucifer could not procreate, and Lucifer was NOT made in God's image. Lucifer was a created being with a specific purpose.

Of course Lucifer had free-will as well (God doesn't create sentient beings without free-will) and in that free-will he experienced the universe's first exposure to envy. HE was the most high Angle, HE was the one trusted to guard God's holiness, HE was smarter than any man could even comprehend, HE should have been made in God's image, HE should have been given God's DNA, HE would not accept God's command to bow down to this frail creation and praise it as the highest creation of all.... HE would defy God Himself!

In that moment, God first knew sin. Sin wasn't an act, sin was a condition, a reality, an existence. Sin was that which was NOT of God. And because God is the creator, and God is holy, God cannot co-exist in the presence of sin. Like matter and anti-matter they cannot exist in a common state. So God had to exile his highest Angle, his most high protector of his holiness. Breaking his own heart God removed Lucifer from the plane of existence that God resides on and "cast him down". Quickly becoming a cauldron of fear and anger - Lucifer stole with him a "third of the heavenly host" and set about to create his own realm. He set about to create an existence that would surpass "Even the Most High".

After this exile, God set about running a "Beta Test" on man. Adam and Eve are living in the Garden with God. At some point, when God stepped out, Lucifer came in realizing that he had the ultimate chance to "stick it" to God. He could take this "prized creation", this "Glory of God" and corrupt it like he had now become corrupted. Lucifer knew that he could jump in and disrupt the "source code" at this phase and forever warp mankind.

What better way to defy your creator? What better way to make Him feel just a little of utter despair and depression Lucifer now felt?

So he convinced Eve and Adam to "eat the apple", or to partake of the tree of knowledge. This put into the human code the knowledge of sin, a path other than God, the idea that you could create your own path... (con't)

(con't).... and in that moment, Lucifer had ensured that man could not and would not be able to exist in the presence of the creator unassisted again.

Because of this, God had to make the decision to remove immortality from man (the tree of life). But he did not want to destroy the creation because he loved it, sadly - much like he still loved Lucifer.

So he jump-started their procreation process and gave them a little "divine intervention" (think like a quick cheat code) to give you a bunch of "begats".

The initial population of the earth had begun to spread out and was now expanding exponentially. Sinful - Yes, but they were still God's creation, and now with their condition of sin - every time they chose to love God of their own free will it fulfilled the very reason they were crated to begin with.

Now, Lucifer and his crew were not done. They went about the process of exploiting the modification in the source code and began teach humans all kinds of things outside of God. And because man knew there was a possibility OTHER than God - they listened.

Fast forward awhile. God sees the world spinning quickly towards a breaking point where he'll have to desert them to their own fate. So he takes a different tactic and chooses a small segment of humans to call "his own". He gives them a precise set of rules to live by that are different from everyone else. While some still fall astray, most follow the rules and because of it they prosper and spread the name of God throughout their sphere of influence.

Sadly, much like Lucifer - they began to think THEY were the source of this prosperity and rebelled against God. Leaving God with no choice but to make a one-time sacrifice for all that would allow man an absolute path back to him no matter how deep their corruption or how badly they'd been twisted around sin.

Ultimately this was the one thing that Lucifer could not combat. He couldn't corrupt man, or himself, past the Most High God's unfailing Grace. Human and Angle alike could accept this gift, freely given, with no cost. It was simply the Ace that Lucifer had no counter for.

So, instead, in his pride, he refused the gift, refused the offer, wore his exile like a crown and set about working against God to convince Man that this wasn't a gift at all but a burden. A heavy and unnecessary burden that would only entangle your life... YOUR life... not His.

In the end, to fight this God gave yet a third part of himself to humanity as an ever present guide. A helper to give man hope, comfort, and that ever nagging sense that God's there - he cares - and is desperate to know you, walk with you, and welcome you into his arms.

But God still leaves it up to us. The biggest tool Lucifer still had is the ability to block the message, distort the view, and muddy the waters. But it wont matter. In the end all will be judged. God will force all to see Him, His sacrifice, His love, and His face. At the point, all will choose God or their pride. We already know what Lucifer chose.

Alright, I've got more crap, but at this point if you're still reading you're probably ready to bleed from the eyes or fall asleep... so that's it in a nutshell.

like sex, you mean porn ? hail, I´ve got good sniff for you, lad.

reply to post by gncnew


It all sounds kind of complex gnc

So where do the homosexuals fit into all of this?

And just which group are the ones having sex and with who?

Is there some kind of secret database that one group has access to that gives them power over the other group?

And which ones are the ones that are making money?

How do these groups communicate?

Which ones are the slaves?

Are these two groups activly working together to enslave unbeleivers?

How do they expand thier numbers (Pro-creation = sex?)





[edit on 24-5-2010 by Freedom or Death]

Originally posted by Freedom or Death
reply to post by gncnew

 

It all sounds kind of complex gnc

- I hope so... I kind of hope that something this big is a little complex, but the message is as simple or complex as you want - the details are what make it complex. A rock is simple, or infinitely complex - depending on how you look at it.

So where do the homosexuals fit into all of this?

- Right there with everyone else. Homosexuality is a sin, sure. But so is stealing, adultery, murder. God sees all of it the same (i.e. not of God). We put weights on sin, not God. This again could be infinitely complex or simple - simple version: God loves a gay person as much as he loved Moses. Loving someone regardless of what they do doesn't mean you agree with what they're doing.

And just which group are the ones having sex and with who?

- I'm not sure what you're asking? I looked back through what I posted and I didn't see anything about sex exactly. I think everyone's having sex if that's what you're asking. God's rules surrounding sex aren't because there is anything inherently wrong with sex, it's because he gave this as a way for man to become spiritually united. Indiscriminate sex with multiple partners eventually leaves you spiritually wasted. You'll notice most of God's rules for man are actually things that make you a happier and healthier person. When I used to whore around I felt pretty empty and lonely. Here on my 14th wedding anniversary I feel like I've got a soul mate.

Is there some kind of secret database that one group has access to that gives them power over the other group?

- again I'm not sure what you're asking about here mate. People only have power over you if you let them. Your life and aspirations are your choice. You make choices of what rules to follow and what people to obey depending on how you prioratize things in your life. It really all comes down to that. There is no assinged power broker.

And which ones are the ones that are making money?

- ??? Money is only a system to trade things of value because everyone doesn't need a good blacksmith or animal furs any more. Not sure what you're getting at on this one.

How do these groups communicate?

- Ahhh, I think I'm noticing a theme here.

Which ones are the slaves?

- You are only a slave to that which you allow yourself to be a slave to. I value my house and my car, and my internet more than I value my free time. Thus I'm a "slave" to my job because I desire the money they pay me (so I can buy the things I want) more than I value my free time.

Are these two groups activly working together to enslave unbeleivers?

- Not sure what those groups are doing. I know that I am trying to work to show the love of God through acts of agape (kind of a cool word) love to people. I belive that God freely gave me Grace and that because of that I need to allow his grace to flow through me to others. I believe that I can best bring Glory to His name and reveal him to unbelievers by showing what he's done in my life. I've always tried to take the approach of "loving them into the Kindom"... not a big fan of the crap fear tactics.

How do they expand thier numbers (Pro-creation = sex?)

- Humans can't create more humans without sex. Kids are best developed in a male/female home because they get the two sides of human nature. Now this is obiously best case senario because I was raised in a single mother home... which was way better than being raised in a loveless marriage home. But all things being equal - two dads, two moms, one dad, or one mom cannot develop - to their fullest potential - the traits of a person. Would a lesbian marriage be better for a young boy than being with an abusive dad or crack head mom? Of course it would - love always trumps no-love.

[edit on 25-5-2010 by gncnew]

Good introduction gncnew, I think you'll find a lot of people on the boards who have run out the patience of their nearest and dearest with black helicopters and little green men. The more the merrier.

Of coarse, no-one wants to listen to the crap I spew, not even in here

Originally posted by Aresh Troxit
An open minded Christian!? I say HOAX!

Funny you say that. I was thinking about this the other day.

Everyone is open minded to beliefs that gel with their own so it's easy to claim you have an open mind if everyone agrees with you. You need to work really hard to open your mind up to ideas that go against your beliefs.

Atheists, by definition, reject the idea that there is a God. Their mind is closed to the idea. The act of having faith means you acknowledge the possibility that God does not exist. You're open to the possibility. (Not all Christians have faith, I know)

Anyone claiming to have faith must have an open mind, if their mind is closed to the possibility that there is no God, they have no faith. Anyone claiming to know there is no God has a closed mind.

reply to post by pieman


Valid point, and I agree with you. That's honestly why I get so frustrated with the tired argument with people claiming things like evolution disprove God, and then point their finger at those of us who happen to think there is a God and call us dim.