God's will = free will? How your church controls you.

Having grown up in the Christian church, I have read my Bible several times through, and taken notes to remember things that stand out. Interestingly enough, it was truly studying this book, not reading athiest philosophies, that made me start questioning it and the church about 3 years ago. After reading many other religious texts, not books ABOUT these texts, I began noticing a common difference in their philosophies on free will. After realizing (at least, for myself) that if I have an eternal soul, God is just, and free will truly exists, reincarnation is the only rational explanation for what happens when I die. I stopped fearing death. I stopped judging others for the way they live their lives. Even the most greedy politicians and war-profiteers look to me like children. I understand now that when I abandon the illusion that these are the most important 80 years (if I am lucky) of my soul's eternal existence; that eternal punishment or eternal bliss could be earned in one mortal life-time, I came upon a paradox in many abrahmic faiths: they do not believe in free will, unless the idea of it can scare someone into subscribing to their system of belief. It's the conspiracy built to hide in plain sight.
A common theme of many church services I had gone to talked about God's plan and free will in the same breath. This always confused me, for good reason. God doesn't talk to us. Our feelings are supposed to be Him guiding us.
"If God's will is just a feeling, what about someone who didn't feel converting to Christianity was the right thing to do?" I once asked. "Because God was testing them, or Satan had a hold of them" was the answer, and I can guarantee no one on this forum has a better answer. Why not? Because this is what control is about. Vague threats about what may happen if one chooses not to subscribe to a particular ideal, while providing no proof whatsoever. Im sorry, but the Bible is not proof. This is why we live in a sham of a democracy and don't do anything about it. This is why we allow our politicians to lead our family and friends to their death in an illegal war. THIS IS THE REAL DANGER IF INSTITUTIONALIZED CHRISTIANITY. Our idea of freedom has been just as skewed, empty, and un-enlightened as our ideas of God. We believe in the contadiction that we are free to create our own destinies until God (or Satan, lol) decides to intervene for our best interests or to damn us...and its the same as a right-wing nut wanting the government out of his/her life while opposing gay marriage. Liberty and justice for all...except these people...and those ones...because God says so. Our brains have been indoctrinated to accept contradiction because, we have been taught, even God and His plan is a contradiction.

We live a lie, because it's all we know.
We claim God's love, but it's all for show.
Keep us safe from the grasp of the devil,
Drive into our brains, that he was the first rebel.

It's always utterly amazed me how God's will, Free will, and Other things are so neatly (for the one spouting the crap) wrapped into a package complete with bow. I cannot count how many times when I am the one being screwed over, it was God's will, when someone else screws me over, it was THEIR will, and when I asked why God didn't impose His Will on said person, 'oh, it's THEIR will to do with as they please'....

And yet, with me.... I get bounced off the walls, it's God asserting HIS will on me. It IS a form of control. Why, you ask? because it's right up there with the 'dont do what I do, do what I say' crowd's way of thinking.

What's *real* fun is the whole 'God is preparing you for __________.' saw. Yeah. Way to excuse the way I have been treated by the church for their actions, By Christians for their actions, whoop dee doo.

And let's not forget the whole 'God says it's his will to give $x to (insert church or ministry here). Or Oral Roberts' whole ' If I dont get millions or some amount, God'll let me die'. Oh BROTHER.

I was raised as a Lutheran, not devout and it wasn't until I started cathecism that I learned what my ideas about God and the plan he has for us was very different than what I was told it should be. Hmmmmm.....what to do? I decided what I felt about God, Christ and my life truly was and see if there was a church somewhere that believed as I did. For example, "original sin". I babies are gifts of God, why do people believe they come into the world stained? Another thing was the role of the death of Christ. If he was a sacrifice for the world's sin, why do people think it's only the world that knows of him? That is neither loving or fair. And if Christ was resurrected, why are we taught he doesn't have a body? Of course He does, or else he wouldn't have been resurrected. What did he do with his body? Drop it off on the dark side of the moon?
I found match. I've been a member of this church for over 30 years and have learned a lot, but non that challenged my faith; most things I've learned have been uplifting. I know I'll be in this church forever.
We have something called "free agency". It's a gift given us, to be able to learn and to choose our own destiny. Everything is a choice and a learning experience. I think I've done.....welll, say about a B. It's my choice if I do "better", "worse" or remain always a B.
I also believe that God is not silent today, anymore than he was during Bible times. I find comfort in that, it makes him a Living God, who loves us and wants us to be happy.
And what of the world and the bad things that happen, things like world hunger, war, disease, etc? I think God is very disappointed with all of us, that we do not remember to treat all people as our brothers and sisters.

"OH BROTHER" is right. A whole bag of tricks, circular arguments, and un-founded claims. I don't think of God as being in a constant tug-of-war with Satan over my soul. Especially not letting me go every now and then to see how I hold up lol.

reply to post by wylekat


One has to remember that the bible that we read today is not the same bible or the the only bible ever written. Throughout the ages, peoples and groups have edited the bible to serve their own interests. To control people, to take money from them etc...


In the bible it does mention that other people have other religions and not to judge them or think that your religion is the only one. As long as the religion or belief that one practices is good, and does not hurt anyone then it should be regarded as 'good'.

When I was young I was not swayed by these pastors preaching the word. I have been told that without the 'word' on could find himself in a tough life of misery and possibly taken out of the 'book of life'. This opinion has troubled me because I think about the peoples who were raised in a jungle who do no wrong and love thy neighbor, who cannot read or have never had a bible or the word preached to them. What happens to them? How about the blind, deaf, or lame?

I do have beliefs but I do feel that the bible and religion of today has been skewed to serve a certain agenda of the people in power. I also feel that it has been skewed in such a way that once you come to realization of what you are being taught you may find yourself fiercely opposing it.

lol you have free will to allow yourself to be controlled and manipulated by the church..
Use your free will and not allow them or anyone else to...
Not easy to do but you do have control of the situations you put yourself into and every action has a result. We shouldn't blame anyone else for things that happen to us...as children of course under the authority of our parents but once we become adults we are the ones who choose our actions etc.

While we dont always realize what we are doing...it then becomes too easy to not seek the reason but turn it into blame...and hurt, and become a victim as such....

Oh poor me you did this to me....
Rather than, I inadvertently or deliberately(with stupidity or lack of knowledge or bad choices and other reasons) allow myself to be open to this resulting outcome by the actions and choices at some time leading up to this or further back in my past.

reply to post by Shadow Herder

In the bible it does mention that other people have other religions and not to judge them or think that your religion is the only one. As long as the religion or belief that one practices is good, and does not hurt anyone then it should be regarded as 'good'.

Dont Judge them but the bible does say the rest of what you wrote.

If your not of God then you are against God....
1 can not serve 2 masters.
In light there is no darkness
etc

............
Sin or not of Gods will there is no grey... murder and gluttony, road rage, etc are all the same..black or white. SIN
We all sin so...
Let he with out sin cast the 1st stone.

Not up for us to be an earthly judge....thats not our JOB.

I can say as fact the above...Worshiping a idol or Mary, or a elephant or fat Asian man, UFO's, etc is not of God....
The same as I/we can say the grass is green.
To state a fact from ones faith is not judgment...

It's your / our free will to believe what ever you want.
I cant force anyone to believe anything and I am stupid if I try...but I will not be afraid to state Gods law in fear that one may squeal your judging me...ummm NO I'm not

It's the interaction and respect and love to the each other even after outlining ones facts.
That's the important bit.
Judgment does no one any good...and as a off shoot is it produces hate, resentment, divide..etc



[edit on 19-5-2010 by Rollo]