Satan: Simple Enemy or Animous Simplicity.

Every concept has an opposite to make itself valid. This is a basic understanding of culture. With God (obviously a concept like any other word) it could only be the same. But God is a very complex and difficult concept to grasp or understand clearly, if not the most of all (reason for which religion is so influential in the world of today - a world guided by concepts). So the best way to approach the concept of God, that is, the most complex, is through its opposing concept, which logically would have to be the simplest. And that is Satan, the Enemy of God, persuader of all sins as God is persuader of Justice.

Now let us analyze better the nature of Satan, this will hopefully make us see a flash of the nature of God, and perhaps somewhat of human history.

The word Satan comes from semitic roots, according to scholars, in which its meaning is related to "enemy" or "opposing factor". But it goes back further than that in my researched and thoughtful opinion. It goes back to Sanscrit and is related to the word Sādhanā which literally would mean something as "a means of accomplishing something", or "doing something in a special way".

(Just for curiosity, the way I related the word Sadhana to Satan was through portuguese, my mother language, in which Satanas is the word for satan and both Sadhana and Satanas have the same intonation of syllables)

Sadhana means meditation, concentration of mind or intuitional practice according to Hindu philosophy, originated on the Vedas - thought to be older than 5 thousands years old.

So taking a western look on it, one may understand sadhana as being the focus of individuality towards any object. The crucial point being the intuitional factor, meaning knowledge that is independent of reason and authority. It seems complicated, but lets remember that this, as opposite to God, is the simplest concept there is.

Concepts are made of other concepts. For example, a table is made of not only wood, but worked wood. The table has a surface and it has legs. So under a superficial analysis, a table, quite a simple concept one would first think, is made of many many concepts such as wood, work, surface and legs. By this you can realize how difficult it is to understand the nature of something as a complex as God.

So Satan is the most simple of all, as God is the most complex. If concepts are made by other concepts then the most simple of them is the one that contains less concepts - or contains none other than itself. This is meditation, intuitional practice, concentration of mind, guided by no reason or authority, sadhana, satan. No wonder he is the persuader of sin, when sin is nothing but ethical and moral confusion. With him there is no sin, no morals, no ethics, no confusion. One would feel inclined to proclaim him evil, but no, he is empty, nothing but itself. God is the creator of all, including evil and sin. God is the big complexity which contains all other concepts, the possible problem and possible solution.

So why is Satan blamed, avoided, persecuted? Conspiracy time!

The nature of evolution (at least in its present stage) is to go towards complexity - or God. Human beings are bound by the laws of evolution, and as a consequence they also have to go towards complexity.

But this process or voyage towards the complex is only possible with the existence of pain (and pain can only exist because of pleasure). One may verify this by observing nature and its struggles of individuals and species for survival. The strong survive, because they are better suited to bear pain and to collect pleasure. The weak perish, giving up to pain or pain giving up on them (no pain, no will to collect pleasure, no will to collect pleasure, no movement).

The pain humans have ti bear is the greatest of all, for they are the most evolved. And for them to keep existing and surviving, the pain has to grow (so that they will for pleasure also grows and movement is succeeded). So its not an easy task for humans to keep their old patterns of evolution, because each time they get more evolved the pain needs to become bigger for them to continue evolving.

Although the most evolved, we are still animals and thus conditioned to outside stimulus. If we put our hand in the fire we will instantly and mechanically draw it away because it will be too much pain to bear at once. So there is a certain "limit" of pain that our bodies and minds are able to bear without mechanically reacting and drawing themselves away. The "progress principle", which guides evolution, takes place in humans in the stretching of the resistance of pain, or in other words, the control of the functions of body and mind.

Evolution has in its nature alliance and competitiveness, which can be seen more drastically in humans although it is wide spread through all the flora and fauna. Conspiracy is the conscious conduction of both alliance and competitiveness in order to follow with evolution. Nothing more than a fight for survival, but with strategy included. It is the way humans are destined to manifest evolution, if they still want to be human. I am sorry to say, but one that is against conspiracies is nothing but weak and will have to perish as prey.

Obviously our ancestors didn't take long to realize this, or else we wouldn't be here. But our ancestor also made mistakes, as we do, and as any other animal does, or is prone to do so under extreme circumstances (instincts deceive many prays as well as hunters). Our ancestors focused on competitiveness rather than on alliance. This, of course, before we became the superior species, top of the food chain. At that point there was little intra-special fight because the specie risked extinction. But time passed and with the focus on competitiveness we became the superior species, free from the risk of being destroyed - but not of destroying itself.

After becoming the superior species we forgot about evolution and its laws altogether. All we wanted was to avoid pain and collect pleasure. There was no more apparent need for a struggle, since no other specie would make us go extinct. But there was still one undiscovered super specie, hidden, waiting to be conquered or to conquer. And that specie is the human specie. At that time we couldn't realize that we were able to completely destroy ourselves entirely, we didn't have the atomic bomb. So the focus on competitiveness persisted as natural, and the focus on focus disregarded...until today - when everyday could be our extinction.

One day, around 2000 years ago, someone stopped to think about exactly these same things. And they realized (not having the atomic bomb yet) how the focus on competitiveness can make you collect more pleasure, perhaps even avoid pain. They didn't know about the laws of evolution, only of pleasure and pain - they thought it was the same thing, failing to realize the conceptual dependency of pleasure and pain in relation to evolution).

Of course, this someone that stopped to think was someone that had the habit of thinking (as I do). And this habit makes one search for knowledge everywhere, in distant lands and in great informational archives. So this someone came to know the Vedas and the power of its knowledge. There they found about sadhana and accordingly had a competitive idea.

As they understood, this sadhana was the method for gaining knowledge alternative to logical means. The knowledge coming from sadhana is from outside of the world of reason and concepts - transcendental. Its the connection with the biggest mystery, the most complex concept, beyond all rational capability - God.

[edit on 9-5-2010 by Geladinhu]

Continues... And thank you guys who posted for not being patient enough, now the thread will be breaked. This is good. Seriously, who doesn't like a break?

[edit on 9-5-2010 by Geladinhu]

Originally posted by Geladinhu
Every concept has an opposite to make itself valid. This is a basic understanding of culture. With God (obviously a concept like any other word) it could only be the same. But God is a very complex and difficult concept f

i hope your okay. I hope you didn't have a heart attack and your head fell on the keyboard somehow and somehow finished the thread before you were done!

I think God may have stopped this guy in his tracks, they do say he's a vengeful God. Luckily I don't believe in him so I've had no trouble replying Yay!

"So how to apply this in a competitive way?" was their thinking. And the solution came quick and simple. People already believed (for good reason) in the transcendental, in something beyond, but they didn't know exactly how to make a connection, or at least didn't know how to maintain a good connection. And sadhana was the way.

"Let us present them the connection. But as if it is the opposite of what it actually is - as the hole through which one may fall and that has to be avoided" (Same thinking of modern insurance agencies, but this is for another thread) Its ingenious to say the least. The Vedas was created through the focus on alliance, and here were some people twisting it wildly to the opposite factor. Good conspirators, deserve a golden star! (The great difference between east and west lies in the two opposite factors of evolution - alliance and competitiveness. The excess of one or the other being a cause for later problems, such as what we have today everywhere).

Observe now how curious is the similarity between the word ALLYING and LYING. This is the west competitive way in action since 2000 years and more, being newer in thought than the east, always borrowing its concepts for other uses. We may say, if we have an eastern understanding, that the main characteristic of religion is allying. Translate it to western understanding and what we have is ALL LYING (one more letter and one more space because of our competitive greedy mood ).

It starts to become obvious when you understand what obvious means. Satan, or the connection, together with God and his unreasonable ways, are the strongest tools of all for shaping the world. And this is well understood even by christian fundamentalists (nothing against them but their againstness against others). Psychological terrorism is the way I like to call the former use of these tools - which are capable of creating christian fundamentalists.

You just have to put it in easy (fallacious) logical terms:
"This is God, which you can't understand. This is Satan, who impedes you from understanding God. If you don't understand God he will punish you. So to prevent yourself from being punished (and its a massive punishment - the burning of your house with the inclusion of all your family) you shall stay away from satan and please God."

This way, as good frightened and curious children listening to our psychopath grandfather, we, without understand what God or Satan is, decide to repudiate Satan for he is the burner of houses - and not old psycho grandpa which just wants your good.

I don't want to say that the bible or anything else is useless, far from that. Its just full of lies. Wonderfully well thought lies, that represent the foundation our current civilized life. Conspiracy is unavoidable. Or you conspire or you become victim. But there are three types of conspiracies, two leading down to the same old place that we know well. These two types are differentiated by the focus on competitiveness or the focus on alliance. The third type, something not yet seen in our history (and we will never really see it although it will be always acting - being the perfect type of conspiracy), is the balance between the two.

I wish to talk more about the subject of the thread, but I can't conspire efficiently if I have no one else to interact. I have interacted by myself enough until here and would like to proceed from your reactions. I get too much off track when conspiring alone, it often makes it heard for others too follow.

I would like to know if every point was clear and if not where can I clarify it? I would also like to talk about the number 666. But if my words are not appreciated I am sure that my numbers won't be, as I have more difficulty with numbers than with words.

And as a famous evangelical portuguese song goes: "Go away Satan. Go away. In the house of the Lord there is no Satan."

ps: Concepts are like clay. Truth is like a pot. Lies are like the sense of aesthetics imprinted on the pot. The entire process and the result is art, or what we like to call it here, conspiracy.

'Satan' is lack of morality. Nuff said.

Originally posted by _SilentAssassin_
'Satan' is lack of morality. Nuff said.

Its much more than that actually.
Its the lack of morality with the perfect exertion of morality.
Its a mind-thrasher. Through Satan we may achieve all that we couldn't even possibly imagine.

reply to post by Geladinhu


The intuitive knowledge you write of is gnosis? As I understand it, Gnosis is intuitive knowledge of a spiritual nature by way of experience. Some experience a God/dess or not; some experience a Satan/Devil or not. I do not believe anything because someone else told me to...that is the hallmark of a Gnostic.

I experience this Adversary referred to as Satan as a half-maker and half a truth-speaker, my blind, ignorant and deluded bastard step-brother who will enventually come to realize (as individual humans will) that his half-making is a farce or illusion. He will come to realize his origins and this illusion will no longer be necessary; it will end, but God, the Infinite Wholeness has no beginning and no end. We belong to the Infinite Wholeness, not to this material universe.

This is my experience. I am interested in reading others' experiences.

reply to post by RadicalGnostic


I like how you put your experience. And yes, this intuitive knowledge is the same as gnosis. But my knowledge coming mainly from the east I understand that there are systems or specific techniques for achieving (more efficiently) this knowledge. I know not how a gnostic makes his pursuit of knowledge more efficient. But a sadhaka mainly works by the cleansing of his moral sense - as I understand it - since our moral sense is actually imposed by culture (other people making us do what they want us to do). So we clean the channel so that the knowledge comes through. And with this new and true knowledge comes a new moral sense also. And every time you connect you should wipe away the last moral sense you got before.

So the Adversary or the Enemy is moral sense itself in all aspects.
1 - You have to put it away once you want to do something right.
2 - Once you do something right, other people will feel that their moral sense is attacked by your new moral sense.

So in number 1 the adversary manifests within. In number 2 manifests externally. In both cases the way to win is by not playing. But here lies the great secret: what is important is the competition or the challenge. If you focus on winning instead of playing you lose the fun. And this is how Satan comes to be, just by wanting to have fun - other people unable to do so do what they always do - get scared or angry.

So basically I can resume my experience by the understanding that Satan = Fun. The adversary is fun, the challenge is fun. To those that play seriously easy is not fun. To those that play without being aware that they are playing easy is fun.

reply to post by Geladinhu


My God is gona kick the sh|t out of your god.

Ha!

Any Questions?

reply to post by FearNoEvil




That made me laugh, I don't know why.
Questions? Sure! I love questions!

What is your God's name?
My God is lazy (not his name - only a characteristic) and likes to have some help with his biological needs.
My God shall thank your God after both of them are done.

reply to post by Geladinhu


I LMAO to.

Need sleep now.

I'll be back!

Originally posted by Geladinhu
The word Satan comes from semitic roots, according to scholars, in which its meaning is related to "enemy" or "opposing factor". But it goes back further than that in my researched and thoughtful opinion. It goes back to Sanscrit and is related to the word Sādhanā which literally would mean something as "a means of accomplishing something", or "doing something in a special way".

(Just for curiosity, the way I related the word Sadhana to Satan was through portuguese, my mother language, in which Satanas is the word for satan and both Sadhana and Satanas have the same intonation of syllables)

Sadhana means meditation, concentration of mind or intuitional practice according to Hindu philosophy, originated on the Vedas - thought to be older than 5 thousands years old.

Interesting notions.

I looked into a couple of online Sanskrit dictionaries to vet you. You did OK.

The following is just idle speculation.

There are some people who believe that the Jews are a wandering tribe of displaced Hindus. Their idea of monotheism might be the reason for their separation from the rest of the Hindus (by way of the Sumerians) or might be a result of it.

Either way they may have come to regard the plethora of deities propitiated in Sumerian (formerly Hindu) rituals sadhanas as bad. With time the details of the old religion (Sumerian offspring of Hinduism?) may have become vague so that the ceremonies, sadhanas, became confused with the deities, who with time and linguistic simplification, became known as one deity, Satan.

I doubt if it could ever be nailed down linguistically. I think one would have to track down words in Sumerian to find putative connections between Hebrew and Sanskrit. But who knows. I'm not even in the ball park with Hebrew or Sumerian (and only sitting in the bleachers with Sanskrit.)

Nice post.


[edit on 13-5-2010 by ipsedixit]

'nother Satan thread...

reply to post by Geladinhu

We could debate our THEORIES until the end of time and neither of us could prove anything.

I’ll just use one argument – FEAR.

Whether you admit it or not, you fear the possibility of an afterlife. You’re not 100% convinced there is no awareness after physical death. You fear the possibility of a judgment in the afterlife.

You want to believe the Bible is not true because it was written by men. But you know your rational is flawed because the things you believe were also written by men. You want to believe that all the fulfilled prophecies of the Bible were just self-fulfilled - but you’re not 100% convinced. You refuse to do a complete study of Bible prophecy because you are afraid the evidence will force you to question your faith.

It nags at you that highly educated and reputable scientists actually came to believe in Intelligent Design while researching the theory of evolution. You refuse to expose yourself to the many fallacies of evolution. You’re afraid you might realize it’s flawed. You’re afraid you would be ridiculed by your peers and respect from your peers means everything to you.

You search and search for the missing link but you can’t find it. You think that proving evolution will prove the God of the Bible does not exist. Yet it nags at you that you can’t explain the cause of a Big Bang. You are left knowing there is a possibility that there could be a Creator. You hope He will not hold you accountable for sin. You hope there is no such thing as sin but you’re not 100% convinced.

You ridicule people that are 100% convinced that God exists because you're not 100% convinced that He does not exist.

You can’t explain why so many men and women accepted torture and death rather than deny that Jesus Christ is The Son of God. You want to believe they were just fools but you’re not 100% convinced.

You know your beliefs aren’t worth dying for. You know you would say anything to avoid death.

You’re afraid that Heaven and Hell might really exist.

FEAR – deep down inside, it nags at you - and satan gives you no peace.

Go ahead - read it again - and again. Get it deep down into your soul. It will lead you to the truth.

reply to post by FearNoEvil


What language are you writing in? Very hard to read...

Hm,

Yet Another Satan thread...


K.

reply to post by Geladinhu


He's the black part of the Yin-Yang, but his actual form is really f**kin' scary when a high priestess/witch summons him and he appears before about 200 people drinking at a "Coal Pit" party. Mass hallucination perhaps, but a lot of people started going to church after that....

Sin is karma, karma is action, action has consequences. Limiting consequence limits ones debt (positive or negative) in matter.

The worlds of matter are managed by spirits and those spirits are in charge of some aspect of the lower (temporary) creation. The highest spirit of the material creation is Kal or the Devil or Satan or whatever term you care to relate to today. Most of the social religion founders and sages of the past had access to spirits in charge of some plane in the material regions. That spirit was the God of that region. Having attained only a higher material plane the sages value was limited to assistance in reaching the plane they had attained. Kal being at the top is the God of all below and his worship or devotion will not benefit the spirit in returning home. Home is above the material regions. Life in higher material planes is progressively superior to life here. The spirit will state for some time then descend and continue the cycle. There is no permanence in the material regions. Spirit must refresh. Even living here, we sleep to refresh and recharge. Kal is benevolent so far as his self interest goes. But he does not want spirits to go home under any circumstances. Because the Supreme Being is now here on this earth continuously in human form. Kal has stepped up the efforts to subjugate humans rather than allow them freedom to leave the material regions. The spirit is here to exhaust imperfections. It does not want the true Supreme Being until it has reaches a point of not really wanting the material worlds and outward activities. Philosophies are not reality. Even if a spirit says this or that, it's condition is what matters. All the sages of the past who haven't come from or reaches the purely spiritual worlds beyond matter have fallen. That includes Budhas Jesus, Mohamed, etc..