Nobody in their right mind should bail out the Greeks!

I was watching footage on the news of the Greeks rioting and throwing fits like little children because they have run out of entitlement money to hand them.

I dont think anyone should bail them out. If they refuse to accept the cuts that come as part of the bailout then they shouldnt get bailed out. I wonder how they are going to react when the Germans come to their senses and decide not to give them another dime?

Why should anyone bail them out. They are the ones that bankrupted their own country by voting in other idiots to hand them more and more entitilements. Thirty percent of the workers in the country work for the government. How can that be. We have government in every area of our person lives in the US and they only amount to a little over 1% of the population. They must have a Greek government worker to sit between each retired person in the country.

So I say no country should give them a dime. They wont ever be able to pay it back anyway. You might as well throw the money into a giant pit and burn it. At least then it would keep somebody warm for a few days (assuming it was all in dollar bills, lol).

I've been saying the same things for awhile now.

The Greeks should refuse the bail out.

Only by collapsing will they ever stabilize their economy anyways.

By taking loans they are only propping up a failure system , and they will need MORE bailouts very soon MARK MY WORDS!

reply to post by muzzleflash


I agree. They will just remain prisoners of debt forever and they will never learn to live within their means if other nations keep enabling them to overspend on Socialist programs that are totally unrealistic.

We would be doing them a favor by letting them go through some lean times to learn the lesson that money is a limited resource and you have to work hard to have anything in this world.


[edit on 5-5-2010 by SlickOil]

Your not the first to watch a news clip and then get a bias towards a whole country.

I say a dime should not exist. In fact; it doesn't unless you allow it.


Time = Money
But in truth
Money = a waste of time.

[edit on 5-5-2010 by gandhi]

reply to post by gandhi


LOL, now you are getting all metaphysical on me. Well dimes do exist and when they run out of them and nobody on Earth will loan them another one they are going to get a rude awakening from reality.

reply to post by SlickOil


I agree metal exists, and within that we call some of the metal dimes, but value? No.

Money use to be just a means of trading. Now its a game. One in which people only use to control.

No thank you.

reply to post by gandhi


Well Gandhi I wish you all the luck in the world trying to buy a house or a car with your imagination.

reply to post by SlickOil

Nobody in their right mind should bail out the Greeks!

The Europeans asked for this, and now they're stuck with it. When they were trying to get all of the nations of Europe into the European Union, they stressed all of the BENEFITS of joining. Now, they're seeing all of the OBLIGATIONS of Union.

This is analogous to what is happening here in the US, with the liberal push to Universal Health Care, Bail-outs and Regulation of Banking/Finance/Wall Street.
Just wait until they get the bill!

As my good friend, TheRedneck says in his signature "Be careful what you ask for; you just might get it! "

Germany and France have to bail out Greece, as it is their banks that hold most of the Greek government bonds. Also it would devalue the Euro if Greece went bust, putting the whole Euro-zone and their trading partners at risk.

It's just self-preservation. They're not going to make it easy though, hence the rioting at the proposed austerity measures. If Spain and Portugal end up needing a bail-out, which looks likely, then this could get hairy for everyone..... even the US.

Let's clear something up, before I go on with my story. Greece is not given money by anyone to retain the standard of living in acceptable levels. The "bailout billions" are destined to land in the pockets of the institutions that loaned Greece money and NOT the Greek people. That's right the money will go to the banks that caused this in the first place.

I have been following the discussion about my country in various internet forums so far and I am glad ATS is not full of comments like "the Greeks are lazy", "let them burn" and crazy stuff like that.

You may ask, why I say they are "crazy". I was born and raised in Greece. I studied Computer Science in University of Crete and next week I am drafted to the compulsory army service. We are no different to any of you. We are regular people, doing our jobs and most of the time working our butts off just to get less than half than many of our fellow Europeans get. Wikipedia lists Greece below every single country we are being compared to here. The truth is way further down than this of course, since the average is misleading. It's only the top 10-20% that gets most of it and the vast majority of common folks survive on minimum wage. In 1993 the wealth distribution was like this and I assure you, since then, wealth was concentrated more and more to the upper classes, exactly as the rest of the developed world. Many studies and documentaries named my generation the "700 Euro generation" with common characteristics being the huge unemployment rate and the fact that most of us cannot afford renting a house and we keep living with our parents.

Bare in mind, that our goods and services cost as much as the rest of EU now. We don't think we are any better than any of you due to our history (Yeah, I heard that in forums too!). We do not hate the Turkish, the FYROM or any other people. We can tell the difference between a neighbouring family like ours and the interests of political/military complexes. Our taxes are not low at all... the ones evading are not people like you and me! We keep pondering where the heck do all these money vanish as our big "public works" are not public at all. The Athens Metro, the new Airport, the rio Bridge, the big Attica road ALL Privately owned by big German companies. All public services companies, telecom (OTE), power etc are also sold to big German and other wealthy nation interests.

We also have TV, Newspapers and all the typical mass media your country has including the false dilemma between two "opposing" political parties that are exactly the same in principle. When we protest, we are told, this is not the way to go, look at the victims etc.

Some of us, even realise that all nations fell for the same scams with the two parties, the banks that run everything, the fact that every single country in the "western" world has a huge debt to private institutions and much more. In what ways do you believe we are different to you? Chances is that your country owes more than mine and it is run by the same people.

I am young and I would sincerely appreciate any advice. What we should do in your opinion? We don't want to starve more in order to repay debts we never wanted in the first place. We don't want to go on with the sale-out of any national resources we have left after all this scam. We don't want to be the excuse for a burden to Germans or any other nation. What can I *realistically* do? I have been trying to inform anyone in my circle and never voted for the two big parties.

Thank you,
a common Greek folk

reply to post by thesdocos


The money is going to the banks around the world that loaned money to your government so they could keep living beyond their means. If Greece had gotten its house in order years ago and quit borrowing money like a crack addict keeps buying crack, Greece wouldnt be in this mess.

reply to post by SlickOil


I think Beck had a good analogy.

M.A.E.D.

Mutually Assured Economic Destruction.

If one goes down, we all go down. Kinda sneaky of the elite Banksters that really run things, huh?

edit for gramma

[edit on 5/5/2010 by endisnighe]

Originally posted by endisnighe

I think Beck had a good analogy.

M.A.E.D.

Mutually Assured Economic Distruction.

If one goes down, we all go down. Kinda sneaky of the elite Banksters that really run things, huh?

I wish you had just wrote that yourself.

The fact that Beck said it , makes it seem slimey.

reply to post by Sean48


Hey, just because it comes from Beck, does not mean it is not relevant.

Hell, I have even posted videos of Maddow which is exactly polar opposite of my views.

I wish people could see beyond the messenger and see the message.


edit to add-One must not plagiarize and quoting someone should involve giving the name of the person you quote.



[edit on 5/5/2010 by endisnighe]

reply to post by Karilla

I am young and I would sincerely appreciate any advice. What we should do in your opinion? We don't want to starve more in order to repay debts we never wanted in the first place. We don't want to go on with the sale-out of any national resources we have left after all this scam. We don't want to be the excuse for a burden to Germans or any other nation. What can I *realistically* do? I have been trying to inform anyone in my circle and never voted for the two big parties.

First of all, your situation is not very different from the situation that the US is in right now. It is just that with a smaller economy, it is harder to hide the fact that your country is bankrupt. The US is bankrupt and has been, for some time now. The only difference is that the politicians have thrown enough flack into the situation, in the form of loans, financial instruments, and government "bailouts" to hide the actual facts. At some point, when the US creditors, such as China, run into trouble financially, they will call in their loans, and at that point, the US will default.
Now, I don't want to scare anyone here, but I would be remiss, if I did not mention it- there is a way out for the US, that is not available to Greece. It is a rather drastic "out", but one that has been used before by the US. That "out" is a wide-spread war. I certainly don't wish for it, and I would not support it, but of course, what matters, is that the crooks that run our country may opt for this, if all else fails.
There are two ways to satisfy a debt. The first, of course, is the pay it off. The second is to eliminate the creditor. The first option is not possible any more. I leave it to your imagination as to what will happen.
I suspect war is in our future, not just the US, but a world war. I hope I am wrong, but I have learned from my seven decades of experience, that governments rarely learn from the mistakes of history. If they did, your government and my government would not be in the financial mess that we are in now.

Originally posted by Sean48

Originally posted by endisnighe

I think Beck had a good analogy.

M.A.E.D.

Mutually Assured Economic Distruction.

If one goes down, we all go down. Kinda sneaky of the elite Banksters that really run things, huh?

I wish you had just wrote that yourself.

The fact that Beck said it , makes it seem slimey.

Not to make it a Beck thread but the guy has been nothing less than Nostradamus on whats happening now. He started preaching about the current events maybe 5 years ago.

reply to post by thesdocos


If you really want to stay, am prepared to lower your standards of living and rebuild Greece:-

1. Declare martial law with a firm date to end within 6 months. The govt had shown themselves corrupt and incapable of governing. No live bullets will be issued but water cannons will be used to clear demostrators. No seizing of them at midnight at homes or that sort of nonsense. Keep them off the streets and at home. Build trust instead.

2. The dictator shall engage the best auditors from outside to go through the nation's account and find out the traitors who had been on the take and robbing the country blind. These traitors will have their assets seized even if under someone else's name and place in prison to await for fair trial.

3. A nation cannot survive without a social service bill such as administrators, police, army, healthcare, education. Borrow such sums and ensure that only such sums are used for such service, not bailouts. Halt any developement immediately such as ego building white elephant projects, but not those that are essential to protect lives.

4. Let failed banks and corporations collapse. Investors share bear those losses because they are essentially gambling. No one can ever guarantee investments will not go sour, thus it is not fare taxpayers should pay.

Many jobs will be lost, but human beings are resiliant and will find ways to earn an honest living. More critically, during this period, neighbour must help one another. Good times do not last, but neither does bad times.

5. Immediately after finding out traitors and the corrupt, locked up or exiled, allow political parties to register themselves, and must prove themselves serious and not some clown out to create disorder. Give them time to canvass the crowds then hold elections. The dictator then must step down once the election is over.

7. Who watches the dictator? A council of elders made up of top men in the different branches with voting power to stop excesses.

8. And the economy? Debts will be paid, espacially soveriegn debts. Sell off unnecessary assets such as buildings but with time leases to revert back to the nation to cut down the debt interests. Many of the rich will be in jail, exile or had fled. Nationalize back crucial assets such as shipping and airlines.

Margerate Thatcher is a NWO shill and her beliefs were wrong in privatising national assets on the premise that it was big bulky and inefficient. It is only the people that need to change, not the asset into private hands. Time had proven privatised assets could also be big bulky and inefficient.

Once such assets are in private hands, trim down and sell off liabilities. Start small and rebuild it back again. Try to get as little loan as possible. No more must one live beyond one's means.

Use such state assets to help create smaller industries for the unemployed, such as sharing industrial space and equipment. Cut down on outsourcing as much as possible, because if they country's wealth is sent overseas, nothing circulates within the country and the bosses to the dishwashers will be out of job if they don't see the money.

Just my 2 cts ideas. KAAH TYXH
.