Religion is slavery, and god is obsolete.

If you have never known God how can you know what feelings/thoughts people have that do believe in him.
GOD is real and the people with religion are the ones who keep this world moving forward instead of backwards. Don't believe me? Look at America's founding fathers. Look at Guandi. Look at Martin luther King jr, Look at Jesus. Look through out history. Now how much have those that don't believe in God contributed? Hmmm?

I am only a slave if I don't have a choice. I choose to follow God.
It is called FREE WILL and I like you have the choice. How can anyone say that people who believe have week minds? It takes a stronger mind to believe and to act on those belief.

Dear Friend,
The last time I checked, there were as many unscrupulous athiests and non believers as there were supposed believers. The fact is that any group, affilliation, race, clich, business, etc. has both good and bad people.

Also, if believers in a faith are pretending to be happy, and non-believers are truly happy? Why do many non-believers sound so jaded, cold, and unhappy. Look at the tone of this very thread...surely not enough optimism and happy here to make me want to be like OP.

Lastly, how are you freer by not believeing in God?

I have read this so many times here...As a Christian, I am a slave...I am being controlled or manipulated...How? I live like I want. I have the lifestyle I want. I do the things that I want. I have a good life, I am married, I have a job, have 4 happy, successful children....they are Christians and doing well with jobs, traveling, college.

We help people...people in our church, community, and complete strangers. We have provided money, food, meals, blankets, helped pay bills, have traveled to Honduras to build a house and teach them how to grow food, my wife istraining as an EMT for medical emergencies on a national level as a volunteer.

Our church...this monster you refer to has/is/will be raising moneys and donations for tornado victims here in NC...for Katrina victims in Mississippi... sponsered the trip to Honduras...helped send over 20,000 buckets of food to Haiti... sponsered and supported healthcare workers going to Iraq... they were subsequently killed while trying to help homeless children there. We give to the local shelters, help with Food Bank of NC, helped a Women's Shelter and halfway House.

Tell me, as a non-believer...How are you freer than me? What greater deeds are you doing for your fellow man? What joys in life do you possess that I, as a Christian, lack?

I read many books, am open to may ideas and beliefs, ...wouldn't be here if I didn't..lol, I have friends both white-black-asian-hispanic-lesbian-gay-church goers-nonbelievers..we have fun, eat, have a few beers, cookout, go crabbin'...I mean really...What am I as a Christian missing?

Please be specific...No blind obedience to the corrupting influences of the church rant... Tell me, oh great non-believer, How is my life not as free as yours?

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
reply to post by Awolscout

 

I got a little carried away there, but in general I dont attack people for pushing their religion on me. I will however point out their flaws if they tell me Im wrong or Im going to hell etc etc.

You also have to see it from our point of view. We dont want to hear about your religion or god, we have already made a choice of not believing. Fine to proclaim that you believe in something, but you dont need to preach it to us

Good luck with becoming a minister

Thanks for the well wishes.

I understand the view point, I was an atheist for about three or so year's eventually turning into an agnostic and finally accepting Christ and then dragging my feet as far away from anything ministerial for a while too... I still don't feel like I'm the right person, but that's something else entirely.

I don't think you got carried away even now, when I see other Christians attacking people off of life choices and their beliefs I cringe pretty bad, I guess I just see it as, when you think something is right and you want to help them, then you want to talk to them. Does that make sense?

I guess my basic line of questioning was what do you think count's as an attack so that I can avoid it in the future

Only a religion based on works is slavery.
Christianity, outside Roman Catholicism, is based on grace alone, not works:

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. - Ephesians 2:8-10

I don't believe in religion as christianity and such, they are as you say fake and they break you down. They do fill you with lies and the bible (for taking christianity in my examples) is so twisted in itself it's weird why people doesn't notice. Fifth commandment, thou shall not kill, God also tells somewhere in the bible you shall not kill in the name of god, why do we have crusades where we "kill unbelievers in the name of god"? Religion and its preachers scares you of hell and tells you to believe in what they say, do what they say so you will go to heaven.
Many people take this to the extreme, destroying their own family for doing something wrong when they are as young as 4! They read the bible but reads wrong and get slapped, screwing them up as people when thye grow up.
Beliving in an enitity greater than you for comfort, support or on other bases, that's fine. Many have the need to believe in something but doesn't need to go to a church and read the bible! There are different kinds of beliefs. That's something many doesn't always understand.
All religions has some good things, be nice to everyone, don't cheat etc. Islamic people don't eat pork 'cause it is fat and such, these things are actually great with religion, taking Ned in simpsons as an example, he is always kind but maybe to religious in my oppinion. Then there is the baptist church, so extremely anti-homosexuality that they believe god killed american soldiers because america accepts homosexual people.
These kind of people are what's wrong in this world (religion-wise), all so overreligious that they don't accept anything that is outside the bible

reply to post by svante


Most if not all the problems you mention come from man...MAN...not God. I am afraid that many peoples response to the church is based on generalizations and stereotypes...just like saying all blacks like fried chicken, or all jews are greedy.... NO, there are some corrupt churches, there are some people..both white and black that like fried chicken, and too many people..jews and non jews are greedy.

For instance, I am a Baptist...a Southern Baptist...and our piano player is Gay. In my mother in law's Baptist Church, the Sunday School Teacher is Gay, she brought him over and we had a cookout last night.

Not all church goers are blind neanderthals. I suggest you might do what we did...visit churches until you find one that suits you, that is comfortable, and feels like a home. Believe it or not, there are some really good churches out there.

Originally posted by AlreadyGone

I have read this so many times here...As a Christian, I am a slave...I am being controlled or manipulated...How? I live like I want. I have the lifestyle I want. I do the things that I want. I have a good life, I am married, I have a job, have 4 happy, successful children....they are Christians and doing well with jobs, traveling, college.

And non of this would have been possible without your association with a church, or religion?

We help people...people in our church, community, and complete strangers. We have provided money, food, meals, blankets, helped pay bills, have traveled to Honduras to build a house and teach them how to grow food, my wife istraining as an EMT for medical emergencies on a national level as a volunteer.

You could also do all of the above without being associated with a church. Would you have, if you weren't? By way of your own free will?

Our church...this monster you refer to has/is/will be raising moneys and donations for tornado victims here in NC...for Katrina victims in Mississippi... sponsered the trip to Honduras...helped send over 20,000 buckets of food to Haiti... sponsered and supported healthcare workers going to Iraq... they were subsequently killed while trying to help homeless children there. We give to the local shelters, help with Food Bank of NC, helped a Women's Shelter and halfway House.

All this could also be done without church involvement. Question is, would you have done any of this if it wasn't for your church? Maybe, maybe not!

Tell me, as a non-believer...How are you freer than me? What greater deeds are you doing for your fellow man? What joys in life do you possess that I, as a Christian, lack?

Some of us don't have a church telling us where, and or how our money should be spent. We can donate to whomever we choose, etc......

I read many books, am open to may ideas and beliefs, ...wouldn't be here if I didn't..lol, I have friends both white-black-asian-hispanic-lesbian-gay-church goers-nonbelievers..we have fun, eat, have a few beers, cookout, go crabbin'...I mean really...What am I as a Christian missing?

Where wouldn't you be? How different would you be if you were not Christian. Some how I get the impression that you don't think you'd be where you are(?) if you weren't a Christian. You would still be you.

Please be specific...No blind obedience to the corrupting influences of the church rant... Tell me, oh great non-believer, How is my life not as free as yours?

Well, you answered some of these questions above. You have been dictated to by your church where your money should go, as far as donations, etc.....You were not given free will in my opinion. A guilt trip goes far in getting people to participate in the programs you mentioned by your church. How can you say no, and then look bad in the eyes of your other church going members? People should be able to pick and choose for themselves where, how, and to whom they will spend their extra time and money on.

reply to post by Blanca Rose


I couldn't agree with you more. But I am not calling you the slave, ....essentally, the only difference between you and me is God. As such, we have much in coomon.

What I do find through God is a sense of peace when things don't go right, when things take a very tragic turn. I find purpose in all things. And yes, God makes me a better person.... and I'm getting better all the time.

reply to post by AlreadyGone


Here is the thing, I never said I don't believe in God.

I have a problem with organised religion being a part of God. I prefer to go to the source directly, without the aid of a middle man, so to speak.

Organised religion, in my opinion, makes a relationship with God, far less personal, while people in organised religion feel it brings them closer, by association with a church.

In my opinion, there is not reason for interference so to speak. Look at it this way, there are all different sources of organized religion, and they all think they are the only right choice. If they were the right choice for everyone, there wouldn't be so many denominations! Why do you ask? Because some guy decided along the way, that they could make money off of it, for all the dissatisfied customers of one religion or another.

Man, and organised religion are what sepparates people from the true source!

An atheist here who simply can't understand the religious mindset, i don't understand how people can be rational, educated and logical ...then dump that all in a bag and stamp on it repeatedly when it comes to religion. I don't know about slavery, but i do know that any good deed a religious person does can also be done by an atheist. So the morality aspect means moot, yet much evil can be created in the name of religion. In actual fact im thankful that most religious people cherry pick what to believe or not to believe in their holy books...If they actually did follow them we would be in a whole lot of trouble. Fundamentalists and extremists understand their bible,quran etc much more than a moderate. You could say they are actually better Christians,Muslims,Jews etc than a moderate who cherry picks all the "good parts" and proclaims it is the word of God...and all the genocide,slavery,rape and bigotry are the work of man that has corrupted the bible over the centuries...


[edit on 1-5-2010 by Solomons]

reply to post by Kaytagg


I agree with you about religion.

I vehemently DISagree with you about God.

You ask why God doesn’t show himself when He shows Himself constantly. He’s all around us and in us. Do you see no love or beauty in the world? If you do, then what you are seeing is God. God is not absent… you just have chosen not to recognize Him in everyday life. What is His “role” according to you? To “fix” everything broken? To “save” us from ourselves? Is God separate from us? Sounds like you’ve totally bought in to this idea of religion that you so vehemently oppose… Perhaps you should shed yourself of religious thinking, then you might be able to see God in your life.

reply to post by Blanca Rose


Again, I could not agree with you more. I do most of my studys at home, we pray at home, and many times we serve others in our home.

The reason I associate and worship through a local body...ie the church, is that we can concentrate our efforts and do a greater good..like the trip to Honduras, or as a group, repair roofs of homes damaged in a tornado.

If you find a body of like minded believers, you gain a common spiritual support, plus a valuable resource of various abilities and trades. For instance, to build the house in Honduras...we had my wife as a medical resource, we had another as a carpenter, another as an electrician, plus an engineer.

Then, there is the spiriual strength that comes through prayer, positive encouragement, and just plain basic help...ie driving someone to the doctor, or fixing a meal, or plowing your field while you have a broke leg.

In the end, as a Christian, the faith started in small homes, and before the end...that will be where it will be strongest.

reply to post by Solomons


There comes just as much evil from a "religious" person as a non-religious person. Do not equate religious with a true believer....

You are also right in your view of mederates. Jesus even said that I would rather you be hot or cold, not lukewarm...for I will spit you out.

reply to post by AlreadyGone


The difference is that an evil atheist is simply an evil person. There is no scripture from an all powerful deity that tells an atheist he is compelled to do this or that to please God. Like i said, the people who truly read and understand the bible,quran etc and follow what their God has told them are the extremists.


[edit on 1-5-2010 by Solomons]

Let's make something abundantly clear here. Religion is not slavery. Faith is not a character flaw.

Church's are sacred cash cows and have been warped by their governing bodies to beyond recognizable and that is an issue.

However there is nothing wrong with having faith in a power greater than one's self. Every group of people who ever came before us all had faith in something.

Even those who believe in nirvana or an unending spiral of birth death and rebirth, have faith.

Threads like these and attitudes harbored by individuals such as the OP or radical bible thumpers or radical mulims or rascists are all the same.

Devisive and unfair with sweeping statements and broad generalizations. Hate and unnaceptance no matter how cleverly masked in metaphor and philisophical mumbo jumbo won't change anything.

Try tolerance. Embrace your fellow man flawed though he is. True peace comes with acceptance not obtuse rhetoric and skullduggery.



[edit on 1-5-2010 by constantwonder]

I only made it through the first sentence of your post.... Is it so bad to "follow" a religion that sets up rules to make you a good person? Sure you can be a good person on your own but most people can't. Over the years religion can probably be linked to the somewhat humane civilization we live in today...

If you figure 500 years ago, they were decapitating people while people cheered in the village square. Or where they had public hangings and everyone came to see. You can say what you want but religion has shifted our environment to a more peaceful and humane life for everyone.

Sure there is still a lot of violence in this world, but I would say more individuals are more humane and thoughtful today than at any other time in history.

reply to post by constantwonder

Even those who believe in nirvana or an unending spiral of birth death and rebirth, have faith.

Actually, I believe that Bankers love us

reply to post by Kaytagg


s&f for the great thread. It's time for the sheep to start thinking for themselves but I don't know if most sheople really are capable of that.

Religion has hijacked spirituality and conditions it believers to a life of servitude.

I don’t care what anyone else says I am god in my world, im not a god of anyone else just myself and it feels great, I believe that life is god it runs through us all from the smallest parasite of earth to the most unbelievable alien in the corner of our universe, life is something we all share and is our bond, science will not fully understand life in my lifetime and world religions completely miss the point.

Im always skeptical of anyone who is religious not to say I wouldn’t treat them nicely but anyone who thinks and man who was born from a virgin, walked on water, rose from the dead and other wondrous magic tricks actually lived is a slice short of a loaf.

Sorry to preach...

Originally posted by ShadowAngel85

Originally posted by andy1033
Religion is important for society and if you think otherwise, i think you have not thought this out too well.

Why is religion important? I really wanna know, because as far as i'm concerned, religion so something that belongs into medival times and not a modern world with modern thinking people. Religion holds the world back, religion is the cause for some of the biggest problems in the world right now.
Without all that crap, the world would certainly be a better place. No priests who rape little children, no muslims who cry war against infidels, no christians who make war "in the name of god" and other stupid bull#.

I am a believer in YHWH before i begin.

First off if we adopted the teachings of the bible, this world WOULD be better off. And just because a person who teach's a religion and goes against doesn't mean that the religion is corrupt. I know this your not sin free none of us are, and these little sin's make up the world we live in now. Poverty, World hunger, no water, no homes, heating or fancy xbox's and hd tv's. And if you think destroying religion's would end all of the above then you are wrong. Read the new testament and tell me if its so bad.