Biggest ATS Problem: Running Away from Tough Questions

reply to post by hiflier


NO, I think this is a great subject.

Here is my take on it.

#1. When people agree with you, it is more difficult to comment. Usually it is more appropriate to add stars and flags, especially since the TandC says not to offer one line comments in agreement, or comments that do not add anything to the discussion. Therefore, a very well written post might get a lot of stars, but not all that many comments or rebuttals.

#2. It is kind of like wrestling your opponent into submission, LOL! The debate may go back and forth for awhile, but if one side is clearly more correct, or more skilled at debate, or has more sources, or is just more stubborn, then eventually the other side should run out of things to say.

I agree with what the OP is saying, but I don't see it as a bad thing, I just see it as the natural progression of any debate. Beat them with facts, or beat them with debating skill, or just beat them into submission with your tenacity. All good things must come to an end, and even the very best threads on ATS eventually fall out of favor and a new one takes their place.

I have watched this thread for awhile now and have thought this through a little...so I want to throw my two cents into the mixing bowl.

Please keep in mind this is strictly from my personal experience and does not reflect what others may think in anyway, but I have a feeling that the reason many do not chime in on some topics or some discussions is really a matter of pride.

Let me explain...

I am not dumb, but I am not the brightest bulb in the lamp either, and when I see topics that are introduced and the members that are obviously of the intellectual type are debating, I feel like there is nothing of substance for me to add...and because I don't want to either look, or feel stupid in comparison...I just don't say anything.

This is a virtual world, so to speak, but even on the Internet and from behind the screen, people (or at least myself) can leave feeling pretty defeated and in my case, I have "walked away" feeling like an idiot.

Now on the other side of that coin...there are times when I see a topic and the people discussing it cannot spell, no grammar, incoherent sentence structure, etc...and I feel like anything I say will be way above the intellectual threshold of the people discussing it. Not to sound arrogant, but you all know what I mean...surely you have come across threads like this.

So it is a catch-22 and dare I say that sometimes it is just hard to know when, and what to say. Nobody wants to feel, or look like less than his fellows...but then the normal fellow does not want to wallow in the mud with the hogs either...there seems to be a personal fine line that we draw, and we tend not to move too far away from its comfort.

Thanks for letting me share.

reply to post by jerryznv


This might be a little off-topic, but it is just for you Jerry.

I feel that I am extremely intelligent, but I have often left a thread feeling pretty dumb as well! Nobody can know everything about everything. I am a Mason and a Shriner, but I have learned more about the history of Masonry from the skeptics on ATS than I have in the Lodge. I have a degree in Chemistry with an emphasis in Engineering, but I have been handed my hat in a couple of vaccine and pharmaceutical debates.

Everyone's "opinion" is valuable. Nobody is expected to be right all of the time, and sometimes the best learning experience is the one where you are proven wrong.

Plus.....anyone that knows they don't know everything, is a step ahead in my book!

In the words of Donald Rumsfield, "There are things we know that we know, things we know that we don't know, and then there are things that we don't know that we don't know." The things that we don't know that we don't know are the ones that always reach up and bite us.

lets say you decide to jump in a thread, and you throw out an argument. you think its a very well phrased argument, and very relevant. you wait and wait for someone to come along and offer a counter point, or at the very least, acknowledge your point. a few pages go by, and still no one responds. you think "i guess no one saw it, and it was lost in the brawl", so you quote someone, and rephrase the original argument. still no response.

a good point was swept under the rug because no one wanted to face it. it isn't about "winning" debates, its about finding what's true. i think that's what people tend to forget. if you "win" a debate by bludgeoning your opponent with rhetoric, yet your actually wrong, what did you win?

i "won" the debate, but in the end i realized the person disagreeing with me was trying to help me. they were ultimately right, and i was wrong. i was forced to change my opinion dramatically.

being wrong means you've found what is true. it isn't losing, its winning.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Very nicely put..and thank you. I am also somewhat educated, with a degree and working on another, but it is a constant reminder that as long as we are willing to learn then we truelly are growing.

I never mind a good debate and love great discussions. Sometimes there can be both in a thread and that just tops my interest even more.

On a personal note...some of the most valuable lesson in my life have been learned through mistakes...and most of the time being right is only half the battle, the other half is learning how much I don't know.

I just took a summer mid-term over at the college...actually about 30 minutes ago...and I thought I was sure to ace it...half way through I was sweating, and wondering if I was going to even get passing grade...true humility to walk in arrogant, and walk out knowing there is much to learn.

You get a few of those lessons here on the forums if you stick around long enough...I know I sure have...and really humility is a good feeling after all...so it turns out.

So, not every post has a life because we either are distracted or too ill-informed to argue otherwise!

I spend hours responding to threads and realize my thoughts only land on deaf ears or I scare the What out of folks? I don't really know. I cannot count the number of times a thread dies the moment I post my thoughts. So often I respond and rather than hit "reply" when I am done typing I hit the red "X" and move on! At least I was able to exorcise my thoughts and my Demons/Aliens in the process!

I realize most threads I respond on are not the "intellectual" kind, those are like being thrown in with the wolves around here and most times I could care less about research when it entails too many dead ends and more than enough "debunkers" screaming the opposite without substantiating it; I just want to hear the truth darn-it!

As for the Truth, I also cannot count how many times a thread "sensationalizes" something just to get an uproar! I am almost convinced that most "threats" are really just blogger papers in disguise and not real at all; I certainly cannot trust any Financial madness as being truth nor can I trust our Government either at planting ATS members to create our No-No's and Yes-Yes's!

The Dr. Sircus one, the ELE-nin Astronomer fiasco, the "Masterful" Dr. Bater, the Hungarian Prophet, the list goes on and on; also anything with Edgar Cayce, if not directly linked to A.R.E., is likely just Wilcock and his delusions! I get fed up with trying to decipher what our Supreme Court has or has not ruled for or against. Can you see why now? We are being duped and we either try or we don't! No matter what we do when it comes down to it our intuition runs more smoothly; mine says to ignore and and wait for the next piece of the puzzle!

So let me ask, if you get another chance at your Tamiflu post do you really think anyone is interested right now with all the rest of the messes we are currently facing? You did good; sorry it did not become the next "Yellowstone" thread! Better luck next time!

Hugs and Kisses, Big fat wet ones if it helps!

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
being wrong means you've found what is true. it isn't losing, its winning.

Thank you Mr Sheen, I knew you were around here, somewhere.

I think I stubbed my toe and had a bad day! At least that is what my above "rant" sounds like.

In more ways than I probably expressed, I tend to agree with the OP that people do stay away from the tough questions, but I guess it is also true when we do try to open the "reasonability" box it often is confronted by needless nick-picking.

I do hope my rant did not offend! I am much calmer now!

I think you're (OP) seeing it the wrong way. The reason that good debate threads sometimes go nowhere, is because all the good arguments on both sides have been made, and nobody feels they can ADD to what's already there.

Just another way to look at it.


On the contrary though, the wacky threads have all kinds of room for things to be said, and hence, get much longer.

reply to post by Gazrok


very true. i'm not saying this is the reason all the time, but it certainly happens.
there are several reasons why a thread may go nowhere, i gave only one. i brought it up because
no arguments or posts should be ignored simply because they are difficult to refute. if something is hard
to refute, then maybe a change of opinion is in order.