Why does Satan seem cool and God seem like a jerk?

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

Yeah yeah yeah. I think it is hard to find someone on ATS that has not seen or heard of zeitgeist if they did not already have some actual history in their heads- which many here do. Thanks for that and all but this thread is not about the validity of the bible. It is simply a question about which one the Fonz would want to be like.

True Im talking about the Pattern im a believer in balance

its in ourselves as we are or the Hive Dwelling Insects in a Hierarchical organization en.wikipedia.org...


it depends on what side of the fence you are on you are seen as a Terrorist , or Freedom Fighter when the government takes total control over your Will are you going to kneel as a Slave or Stand up you know what is right as a fighter of a Resistance ! Good Slave or a Evil Partisan

what this thread is really about K J Gunderson is how far is your Allowance of your Will of Life of Enjoyment to your bidding instead of a Religion Dos and Donts Hand Book I will Chose my Own Path of judgment . what i see is Good & Evil

Good = o god Evil = Live


ahhyyyyyreee I need to go to my office (restroom) to talk to the high and mighty

'God' is manmade. From our imaginations to give hope, chinese whispers from the past. Nothing more.

Brave.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Humans can do some things that just sicken me at times. Look at what we do to each other, to the planet, and to all life that lives on it. Humans at times act like parasites or an infection. How G-d tolerates us I cannot fathom. The 20th century being the worst example out of our history. How can anyone tolerate human behavior? Turn on the news, look at the world.
Humans are monsters, yet G-d tolerates our existence.

Even if you don't believe in any religion, you have to admit the human species is violent, destructive, manipulating, and corrupt. We do horrible things to ourselves. We do horrible things to our world. That is something undeniable.

I agree with you on these points.

Still not buying into the deity in the bible being merciful though... for the reasons I stated earlier.

But this is a nice thing about ATS, we don't have to agree and we can share our opinions freely and test our own theories against one another. Thank you for cordially sharing yours and listening to mine

take care

reply to post by xfiler


I applaud you for your thoughtful post, xfiler. I find--more often than not--it’s the quiet, one-time posters that come closest to hitting the mark; somehow managing to do so without flailing their arms wildly wide of the target, pointing their fingers all the way. Good show. The message not the messenger.

God and Satan…who wins this argument? I think we often miss the point.

My stance? I would offer that the only truth is a self-realized one, then you go from there. However, I’m frequently amazed by those who base their entire belief structure solely on the bible; a limited course of action, imo. People seldom do well with metaphors, transforming them into absolutes. The end result is often a hypocritical stance straight from the soapbox, more bullet-holed with accusations and judgment than the opposing opinions it’s meant to silence. It’s amusing. I think humanity has an easier time with a scapegoat, someone to blame for our own misdeeds: “the devil made me do it…” and the like. An utter cop-out, again, imo. If one then factors in semantics: Is the God of the OT the same as the God of the NT, or the Creator of ALL that exists on every plane/dimension? Likewise, does Satan = Devil = Lucifer? Hmm.

Imagine that if what one believes is what happens to them? Their personal fate - a casualty of their own paradigm. I’d like to put aside God and Satan for one moment, and imagine: YOU are the one doing the judging of yourself on the other side? How did you do? Was God responsible for everything you did right? Was Satan behind you when you looked the other way or perpetrated ‘wrong’? Is it one’s own freewill that guided them, and their deeds and reactions in the world, such as it is? Does one accept personal responsibility for every thought and action? If one got to FEEL what it was like to be in the shoes of the “other’, for both good and bad, I'd wager a lot of people would make some profound adjustments.

I tend toward the notion we are the masters of our own destiny, and if you failed miserably this time ’round, the worst fate is that perhaps you get hurled back into the recycle bin for another go at it. Until you get it right. All paths lead home eventually. Whatever that is to you. Is “Satan” a tool to remind you what NOT to be or do? I ponder this frequently.


[edit on 24-4-2010 by Auntie Matter]

reply to post by K J Gunderson

Who cares what he desires? Your god is the only one looking at what he desires and allowing him to continue indulging them. Your god MADE a bad thing that wants to do bad things and continues to allow it to roam free...doing bad things.

Why is your god so quick to reward Satan's desires with ever increasing chances to enjoy them? You sure that god is really on your side and not his?

This should lead to the question of why that structure is in place. Why do those agents and wardens operates as they do? What happened with humanity that caused that system to be set up?

The Bible doesn't offer a clear answer, but it hints that it was set up either after the Flood or the Babel incident. In the book of Deuteronomy it says that humanity was divided according to the number of the Bnai Elohim. That number is the 70 nations that descend from Noah's three sons.

Edit to add: Another thread in the forum made a good point about G-d protecting us from ourselves and each other. This makes me wonder if the system may have been set up to keep humanity from destroying itself. We are so self destructive it makes sense.

Not sure what you are referring to or trying to say here. What challenge are you speaking of? According to your book, God is the Judge, prosecuter, and jury. You are not allowed a lawyer because the biggest sin is not knowing everything God wants you to know even though he let the world fill with lies and confusion.

There is no jury. G-d is the Judge. Satan is the prosecutor. Actually there can be an advocate. Abraham advocated during the judgement of Sodom. Moses advocated during the Exodus. The Angel of the L-rd is said to be an advocate. The angels Michael and Gabriel both defend humanity.

Huh? What are you talking about? God brings cases before God.

Again Satan does that. The word "Satan" itself even means that.

It may be my opinion but unlike yours, mine is based on the words in the book you are using to make points that are not true. He is a ruthless leader who offers death to anyone not immediately succumbing to his perfect love. Like I said before, capital punishment for lashing out at daddy is hardly the move of a loving lord.

I still say in comparison to many rulers in human history from the Pharoahs, the Ceasars, and to even some of the Popes, G-d is more merciful than they are.

If you are familiar with the bible, your god created all of that and put it all in place. He has the power to stop or end them at any time. That would make them all his agents. I know, crazy book. Read it.

Actually G-d says he will end that system. There are prophecies of the endtimes that deal with the destruction of the Host of Heaven and the rule of the Messiah. The Christian book of Revelations even mirrors that, with the War in Heaven, the fall of the system (the Seven headed dragon) and then ends with the rule of the Messiah on earth.

I forget what thread but if I come across it, I will show you. Not one xtian of any kind was even willing to listen to what I was saying. I was just wrong. No discussion, no reasoning. I was just wrong about it and that was that. They argued with many posts and many words but it was all angry vitriol.

Thats a problem. Many people don't want to even debate it or think about it. More people need to investigate and research their own holy books. Listening to a preacher or priest doesn't cut it. They should be willing to go out and look at the Hebrew and the Greek. They should not be afraid of Judaism or to investigate Jewish perspectives. They shouldn't be afraid of books outside the canon, or texts like the Dead Sea Scrolls.

I am flipping through the manual for "The Sims 3" right now. Even if I wanted to bestow upon them the knowledge of perfect love, there is no way to communicate that to them. There is not even a cheat code for that. Turns out they have no free will either. Apparently, I am controlling them like a tryant and could never tell them that I love them if I wanted. They hardly deserve punishment and have no need for "rights."

They may not have AI in Sims 3, but just wait. If you have a simulated person in a virtual world, a world you created, do you think they should have the same legal and civil rights as a physical human?

So, the god in the bible does not really love us? He never came down and told us that he is directly watching us and gave us rules he will see that we follow? What bible are you reading?

G-d loves us. He gave Moses and the Hebrews a covenant and mitzvah to follow. Israel is intended to be a light unto the world. If you look at Jewish contributions to human civilization, I would say that light still shines.

Your familar with Greek myth? Remember Pandora's box and hope. The Sarim, the princes who act as wardens over the nations, are like the terrors released from the box. In the box was also hope. Israel is like that hope. If G-d didn't love us, there wouldn't be any hope.











[edit on 24/4/10 by MikeboydUS]

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
Read the Old Testament, God is one mean hombre, smiting people left and right, killing the first born, sending people to war, commanding the Israelites to commit genocide or take slaves and of course there's that time he drowns EVERYONE except Noah and his family horrifically in a flood.

Yes, the god of the abrahamic religions wasn't realy a very nice fellow at all:

3 Now the glory of the God of Israel went up from above the cherubim, where it had been, and moved to the threshold of the temple. Then the LORD called to the man clothed in linen who had the writing kit at his side 4 and said to him, "Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it."

5 As I listened, he said to the others, "Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion. Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary." So they began with the elders who were in front of the temple.

-Ezekiel 9

Cheers.

reply to post by Wolfenz

And All Religions Claimed A Flood From a Angry God in some form

I see that you have found the Syncretic pattern. The One sky-father archetype and the Dodekatheon.

The SkyFather archetype can be found all over the world. To the Mongols and Turks he was known as Tengri. To ancient China he was Shangdi. The Sumerians and Hittites knew him as Anu. The Phoenicians knew him as El. The Greeks knew him as Uranos. The Hebrews know him as the G-d of Abraham.

You should also be familiar with EnKi and EnLil from the Sumerian myths.

EnLil "Lord of the Wind" is a type of the archetype of the Thunderer. The Thunderer is normally one of the Twelve and leader of the Twelve. He is considered the ruler of the world. Compare that to Ha-Satan's title of Prince of the Powers of the Aer and Ruler of this world.

EnKi "Lord of the Mound" is a type of the Horned Trickster/Crafter. He teaches men crafts, magic, and civilization before the Flood. Compare him to Azazel, who brings gifts of crafts and civilization to humans before the Flood. Also compare the association of goats and the concept a "horned god" between them.

There is definitely a syncretic pattern among ancient human beliefs.

I think it is important to investigate and debate these patterns.

Seems to have moved away from the original question.

Well the answer is simple. Satan's (alleged)first gig is as a shape-shifting talking snake.
I'm sure you all agree shapeshifters comes in a close second to giant robots that turn into a Chevy Camaro on the coolness scale.

reply to post by einherjar

Being an atheist,I normally would not really care into such things but I have always wondered if God started becoming insane and evil mid way through creation and Lucifer(I am assuming Lucifer and Satan are the same entity for now,some gnostic Christians don't believe so ,but anyways) being the Morning Star etc etc, realized the insanity of God and decided to rebel against him but tragically lost the battle.


Would make an awesome book or movie eh?

Yeah, thanks for giving some ambitious director the idea and releasing his Blasphemous curses to an already moral-riddled public already wrapt in the coils of depravity. Ideas are bigger than us. I'll know what to look for when it comes out.

Belief is all based on faith and/or assumption.As we do not have definite proof of God's or Satan's existence,we also not have have definite proof on whom is really good or evil.

You may not have proof, but others have proof. Why do you not have proof? Because you are an athiest, as you stated, which allows for extreme power of doubt and skepticism to overpower your spiritual realities, and close off your mind to them. You are very strong-minded - yes you are! powerful enough to shut your minds clam and amuse yourself with fantasies about the realm you don't see!

If there is truly a good and sane God,he would not succumb to man's notions and limitations of what truly is perfection.I feel as long you have fun,help others and try not be a general menace to society,He would understand.

He doesn't succumb to man!~In fact, God is no respector of persons. In other words, it's up to us to earn something. We are all ultimately alone and answerable for what we do, and I haven't seen karma giving any ground recently, have you? If you think so, I'd tell you you're mistaken. In time. What time? Well, it might possibly be composed as an incovenient truth when it arrives.
We can trend the future in a conspiracy, but what about in ourselves? They who exist aside will be a "law unto themselves", as spoken of in Romans. Sorry for all that line of dogma!

If he does not,and wants constant praise,then He is not a perfect God and I do not have to worry,because I know He is limited in that capacity.

You can't respect the sacred from an obscene standpoint! You just don't get it. When a bad intent meets a poor ideology, they sometimes match up and give birth to a solid-lined mistake. For example, a drunk hearing "let's go for a cruise"! Sometimes they just meet up and go alight. They aren't right, but the thoughts feel good together.

The first way to defend your against your predisposition is to question what the results of the thoughts together are. Does the entity "God", matched with your slander, feel good to say? If you think so, i'd agree. It's a natural animosity, some say it's natural, we understand it as demonsoul affecting our core - the eternal striving against all things and beings and ideas holy, and supportive of life. Warfare without reason, ideals without care, mortality ending in death - a shared misery of populist appeal shared among lonely trenches about the world.

Athiesm is a sadness and a question that denies itself any key beyond. Please don't be surprised that the occasional laugh comes your way from Christians! It's just bad manners from some, really. A bit more exercise in spiritual places? Who knows, "comparasions are odious"!

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by satanictemple

 

Thats very possible. There are many satans. Some are adversaries to humanity like Ha-Satan of Job.

I have a bizarre hypothesis that I don't want to get into in this thread, but it basically amounts to the idea that Ha-Satan has his own adversaries or "satans". In effect there are those who resist his agents and wardens. Some with their own agendas. Some possibly aiding humanity.

If you are familiar with Azazel, you may know he is not Ha-Satan of Job. He seems to have had the whole human potential/ fire from the gods mission. The book of Enoch isn't in the Bible, but it does paint Azazel and the angels that followed him as Promethean figures.

I see that your familiar with Sumerian myth, Enlil and Enki.
This is my interpretation of the myths: Anu/An is G-d. EnLil is the Satan of Job. EnKi is Azazel. In the myths EnKi just like Azazel goes down before the deluge and teaches men knowledge. The constellation of Capricorn (the horned goat) is also associated with EnKi. The figure of the goat is also associated with Azazel. I should also mention that EnLil, means Lord of the Wind/Loft. Compare that to the Satan of Job's title "Prince of the Aer".






[edit on 24/4/10 by MikeboydUS]

I think your theory makes a lot of sense, and pretty lines up with my beliefs on the subject. When I refer to my object of worship as Satan, I mean by that the god represented in such Enki/Azazel characters.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by satanictemple
Ha-Satan = adversary. It's a title. It's very possible the Satan I worship is not the Satan of Job.

Actually no.

Capital letters indicate a proper noun. My name means little king but I am neither undersized or of any royalty. When I say Satan with a capital S to a Christian, I believe they know who I am speaking of as well as it being much easier than saying "the guy that was labeled adversary to your god in the bible" each time I want to refer to the guy they named...Satan.

I hope that helps.

I get your point but I believe that most people that would take part in a thread like this know that when I am talking about bible stories and say "Satan" they know exactly which character in their book I am speaking of.


[edit on 24-4-2010 by K J Gunderson]

I see what you're saying, but I am careful not to confuse the biblical English capital "S" Satan with the original Hebrew scriptures. Most, if not all, places where the Hebrew mentions Satan, it does not matter whether the English translations capitalize it or not. Generally, Satan is a title for adversary in Hebrew scriptures, not a proper noun.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


This is a funny post... I couldn't help myself..
1. God likes wine, not beer.
2. How is God a "c-blocker"? You upset that he's not a pimp?
3. I don't think either one of them gives a crap about health care.
4. Since when does God want to bomb anyone?
5. I highly doubt God enjoys Christian Rap. I see him more of a Lady Gaga fan. I don't think Satan listens music (he's too busy updating his Twitter status).
6. I highly doubt either one of them watch the news. If they do watch television, it's Sunday night HBO.
7. I don't think either one of them cares if you are gay. They have more important things to worry about.
8. This one is my favorite, "Satan says the world as we know it is in peril unless we stop polluting. God says we should keep on polluting and scientists are full of s---." Satan is a tree hugging hippie? God, the dude who created the universe in like 7 days, is a corporate polluting mo-fo? Where are you getting this?
9. "Satan thinks that every country matters. God is an American and thinks only America matters." Seriously? All this time I thought Jerusalem was the city of God. Anyways, everyone knows he loves Canadians.

My point is this, it's the people (especially those Jesus freaks who are hurting the religion by being crazy, paranoid bible beaters) who make God seem like a nerd and Satan seem like a cool dude. I don't believe in Satan, but I do believe in a "God", and my "God" does not take sides and judge. He is everything and has no personality. If you think Satan enjoys the Beatles, my God created the Beatles. That's what I think anyways...

[edit on 24-4-2010 by eurotrash]

"Jesus was sitting on a rock in the desert, meditating and reading the Law, whcn Tarzan came riding up on a goat. Tarzan was munching nutmeg seeds and playing the harmonica. "Hi, Jesus," he yelled.

Jesus jumped like he was stung by a scorpion. "You startled me," he stammered. "I thought at first you were Pan."

Tarzan chuckled. "I can understand why that put you uptight. When you were born, the cry went through the wor1d, 'Great Pan is dead.' But as you can plainly see, I'm hairy all over like an ape. Pan was a shaggy beast from the waist down. Above his belly button he was a lot like you."

A shudder vibrated Jesus' emaciated frame. "Like me?" he asked. "No, you must be mistaken. Say, what's that you're eating?"

"Nutmeg seeds," said Tarzan, grinning. "Here, 1'll lay some on you."

"Oh, no thanks," said Jesus. "I'm fasting." Saliva welled up in his mouth. He pressed his lips together forcefully, but one solitary trickle broke over the flaky pink dam and dripped in an artless pattern into his beard. "Besides, nutmeg seeds; aren't they a narcotic?"

"Well, they'll make you high, if that's what you mean. Why else do think I'm gumming them when I've got dates, doves and a crock of lamb stew in my saddle bag? If you ask me, you could use a little something to get you off."

At the mention of lamb stew, Jesus had lost control of his lake of spittle. Now he wiped his chin with a dusty sleeve, embarrassment coloring his dark cheeks as the rosy-fingered dawn colors so many passages of Homer. "No, no," he said emphatically. "John the Baptist turned me on with mandrake root once. It was a rewarding experience, but never again." He shielded his eyes against the radiant memory of his visions. "Now, I'm what you might call naturally stoned."

Tarzan, who had climbed off his goat, smiled and said, "Good for you." He sat down beside Jesus and mouthed his harmonica. A jungle blues. "You gotta blow a C-vamp to get a G sound on one of these," he said. He did it.

Obviously distracted, Jesus interrupted. "What did you mean when you said that Pan was a lot like me?"

"Only from the waist up," corrected Tarzan. "Above the waist Pan was a highly spiritual dude. He sang and played sweeter than the larks; and his face was as full of joy as a sunny meadow in spring. There was a lot of love in that crazy rascal, just as there's a lot in you. Of course, he 'had horns, you know. And cloven hooves. Good golly, Miss Molly, how those woolly legs of his could dance! But he stunk, Pan did. In rutting season you could smell him a mile away. And he'd take on anything. He would've screwed this nanny goat if he couldn't find a nymph." Tarzan laughed and ran the scale on his harmonica.

Jesus didn't appreciate the references to carnal knowledge. He made an attempt to get his mind back on the Law. But whenever his formidable intellect voyaged on the roiling sea of Hebrew instruction, it drew the image of Pan like a dory behind it.

Finally, he shoved Moses aside and asked, "But you say he was a lot like me."

"1 said that, didn't I, man? I said he was like you, but different, too. Pan was the god of woodlands and pastures, the deity of flocks and shepherds. He was into a Wilderness thing but he was also into a music thing. He was half man and half animal. Always laughing at his own shaggy tail. Pan represented the union between nature and culture, between flesh and spirit. Union, man. That's why we old-timers hated to see him go."

The newsboys of paranoia hawked their guilty papers in Jesus' eyes. They were the same shrill urchins who would be hawking when Jesus would predict his disciples' betrayal and denial; when, in his next-to-last words, he would accuse God of forsaking him. "Are you blaming me?" he asked. His stare was as cold and nervous as a mousetrap.

By this time, Tarzan was pretty loaded. He didn't want any unpleasantness. "All I know is what I read in the papers/' he said. He waved his harmonica to and fro so that it twinkled in the sunlight. "Do you have a favorite tune?"

"I like anything with soul in it," Jesus replied. "But not now. Tell me, Tarzan, what did my birth have to do with Pan's demise?"

"Jesus, old buddy, I'm not any Jewish intellectual and I can't engage you in no fancy theological arguments such as you're used to in the temples. But if you promise, Scout's honor, not to come on to me with a thick discussion, I'll tell you what I know."

"You have my word," said Jesus. He squinted in the agreed direction of Paradise, whereupon he noticed for the first time that an angel was hovering over them, executing lazy white loop-the-loops against the raw desert sky. "That angel will report everything it hears," thought Jesus. "I'd better mind my P's and Q's."

Tarzan spotted the angel, too, but paid it little attention. The last time he bad eaten nutmeg seeds he had seen a whole dovecote of them. One had landed on his head and pissed down his back.

"In the old days," Tarzan began, "folks were more concrete. I mean they didn't have much truck with abstractions and spiritua1ism. They knew that when a body decomposed, it made the crops grow. They could see with their own eyes that manure helped the plants along, too. And they didn't need Adelle Davis to figure out that eating plants he1ped them grow and sustained their own lives. So they picked up that there were connective links between blood and **** and vegetation. Between animal and vegetable and man. When they sacrificed an animal to the corn crop, it was a concession to the obvious relation between death and fertility. What could be less mystical? Sure, it was hoked up with ceremony, but a little show biz is good for anyone's morale. We were linked to vegetation. Nothing in the vegetable world succumbs. It simply drops away and then returns. Energy is never destroyed. We planted our dead the way we planted our seeds. After a period of rest, the energy of corpse or seed returned in one form or another. From death came more life. We loved the earth because of the joy and good times and peace of mind to be had in loving it. We didn't have to be 'saved' from it. We never plotted escapes to Heaven. We weren't afraid of death because we adhered to nature-and its cycles. In nature we observed that death is an inseparable part of life. It was only when some men - the original tribes of Judah - quit tilling the soil and became alienated from vegetation cycles that they lost faith in the materia1 resurrection of the body. They planted their dead bull or their dead ewe and they didn't notice anything sprout from the grave; no new bull, no new sheep. So they became alarmed, forgot, the lesson of vegetation, and in desperation developed the concept of spiritual rebirth.

"The idea of a spiritual - invisible - being was the result of the new and unnatural fear of death. And, the idea of a Supreme Spiritual Being is the result of becoming alienated from the workings of nature; when man could no longer observe the solid, material processes of life, and identify with them; he had to invent God in order to explain how life happened and why death happened.

"Now just a minute," snapped Jesus.

"Maybe I should run along," said Tarzan, sticking his harmonica into the myrrh-stained Arab silk that girded his loins.

"No," said Jesus. "If you have more to say, then out with it. Where does Pan fit into this blasphemy? And I?"

"If you're sure you want to hear it. Confidentially, you look a bit under the weather to me, pal. You could use a pound of steak and some fries."

"Do continue," sputtered Jesus through his drool.

"The point is, J.C., we had a unified outlook on life. We even figured out, in our funky way, how the sun and moon and stars fit into the process. We didn't draw distinctions between the generative activity of seeds and the procreative cycles of animals. We observed that growth and change were essential to everything in life, and since we dug life, when it came time to satisfy our inner needs we naturally enough based our religion on the transformations of nature. We were direct about it. Went right to the source. The power to grow and transform was not attributed to abstract spirits--to a magnified ego extension in the sky--but was present in the fecundity of nature. We worshiped the reproductive organs of plants and animals. 'Cause that's where the life force lies."

Jesus kicked a pebble with the worn toe of his sandal. "I've heard of the phallic and vegetation cults," he said. "Not very sophisticated. My father expects more of man than a primitive adoration of his carnal natures. He must rise above..."

"Rise to what, Jesus? To abstractions? And alienation? Your scroll there, your book of Genesis, says that in the beginning was the Word. The simplest savage could see that in the beginning was the orgasm. Life is reproduced from life, while resurrection--the regeneration of seeds, the return in the spring of the leaves that fell in the autumn--is of matter, not of spirit. Unsophisticated? Maybe it's unsophisticated to venerate mountains and regard rivers as sacred, but as long as man thinks of his natural environment as holy, then he's gonna respect it and not sell it out or foul it up. Unsophisticated? Hell, it's going to take science a couple of thousand more years to determine that life originated when a cupful of seawater containing molecules of ammonia was trapped in a pocket in a shore rock where it was abnormally heated by ultraviolet light from the sun. But we pagans have always sensed that man's roots were inorganic. That's why we had respect even for stones."

Jesus looked up sheepishly from the pebbles he'd been kicking. "But you hadn't been saved," he protested.

"Didn't need to be," said Tarzan. "Wasn't of any use to us.

"Well, in the old days the female archetype was the central religious figure. Man had the power of creation, but it was in women that we observed the unfolding of the life cycle: reproduction, death and rebirth. So we celebrated the sensuality of God the Mother. Agriculture is umbilically tied to the Great Belly. Whereas the domestication of animals, a later pursuit, is more of a phallic activity--it was a step away from God the Mother and a step toward God the Father. But a harmonious balance was maintained. And Pan personified that balance. He kept things unified, him with his beautiful music and his long red erection.

"But when you came along, well, the way I hear it is your coming represented the triumph of God the Father over God the Mother, victory of the Judaic God of spirit over the old God in flesh. Your birth-cry signaled the end of paganism, and the final separation of man from nature. From now on, culture will dominate nature, the phallus will dominate the womb, permanence will dominate change, and the fear of death will dominate everything.

"Pardon me, Jesus, 'cause I know you're a courageous and loving soul. You mean well. But from where I swing, it looks like two thousand miles of bad road."

Jesus looked to the heavens for guidance, but he saw only the angel, hangin in front of their parley the way a sign hangs in front of a TV repair shop. "Then that explains why you have withdrawn into your private nirvana," he said at last.

"You might say that," said Tarzan, standing up to stretch. "Why beat my head against a penis abstraction? And you, what are you doing out here in this snaky wilderness, frying your butt on a hot rock?"

"I'm preparing myself for my mission."

"Which is...?"

"To change the world."

Tarzan slapped his side so hard he bent his harmonica. "The world is perpetually changing," he roared. "It doesn't do much else but change. It changes from season to season, from night to day, from ice to tropics. It changes from a pocketful of cosmic dust to the complicated ball of good and glorify it is today. It's changing every celestial second with no help whatsoever. Why do you want to stick your nose into it?"

"The peoples of the world have become wicked and evil," Jesus said gravely. "I believe, in all modesty, that I can eradicate their evil."

"Evil is what makes good possible," said Tarzan, hoping that he didn't sound too trite. "Good and evil have to coexist in order for the world to survive. The peoples haven't become evil, they've lost their balance and become confused about what they really are."

He jumped on the back of his goat and gave it a smack. "I'm afraid, Jesus baby, that you're gonna confuse them all the more."

The jungle yogi started to ride off, but Jesus leaped up and grabbed teh goat by its tail. "Whoa, no, whoa," he called in his rich olive-green baritone. The animal stopped and Tarzan looked Jesus in the eye, but Jesus had difficulty articulating the activity in his brain. "If you think carnally then you are carnal, but if you think spiritually then you are spirit." He just blurted it out, but it didn't sound too bad, and the odor of the goat obscured any desire he might have had to develop his idea more comprehensively.

Tarzan rattled the nanny's rib cage with his heels and she bolted out of the prophet's grasp. "Any law against thinking both ways?" he asked. He began to ride toward the south.

"You're either for me or against me," yelled Jesus.

"Well, adios then. I've got to beat it on back to the Congo. Jane promised to lay out a luau when I returned. Been gone two weeks now, a-riding over the good earth and a-playing for anybody who'd listen. Bet Jane's as horny as a box of rabbits. Git along, nanny!"

The goat galloped off in comic-strip puffs of dust. Jesus returned to his rock and shooed an entwined pair of butterflies off the Law. His heart felt like the stage on which some Greeks had acted a messy tragedy. So occupied was he with swabbing the boards that several minutes passed before he thought to look after the angel. When his eyes found it, it was flapping erratically in the high, dry air, first soaring after the disappearing strains of Tarzan's harmonica and then returning to hover over Jesus, back and forth, again and again, as if it did not wish the two to part--as if it did not know whom to follow."

I don't think your "underpowered Jesus" is up to snuff, according to the Lord I've come to know and love. Nothing is as trite as a fable from a "barbarian" portrayed. And your story, however grand, is only one drop in a sea of understanding. Nice try to rationalize everything, but the rabbit-holes don't end there.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull

The God of the Old Testament is, generally speaking, evil. The New Testament version is a bit nicer to us humans but apparently can't think of a better plan to save us than getting his own son killed. What's worse is that he turns back into that nasty Old testament wrath dealer in Revelations, letting loose all manner of torment and agony for no apparent reason just before damning the majority of human beings to a fiery pit of torture and despair for ETERNITY.

Titen no matter how much you wish it were this cut n dry. I'm positive you
know it isn't. So, why all the rederick Titen. Can you explain that as well.
It's as if you have some really deep seeded issues with Christianity.
Just thought I'd give you an opportunity.


I would at least like to hear OP say exactly what it is, he thinks is so cool about Satan.

I think I see what you are saying. I am not blaming the biblical Satan for all the worlds evils. I am trying to say he is just being himself and according to God, that is evil. God allowing that to persist and invade human life and still calling it evil is far worse than anything Satan could do.

This is the product of inexperinced perception. Or just trying to turn the tables on God. Even you should know that won't work.

[edit on 24-4-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Titen-Sxull

 

The God of the Old Testament is, generally speaking, evil. The New Testament version is a bit nicer to us humans but apparently can't think of a better plan to save us than getting his own son killed. What's worse is that he turns back into that nasty Old testament wrath dealer in Revelations, letting loose all manner of torment and agony for no apparent reason just before damning the majority of human beings to a fiery pit of torture and despair for ETERNITY.

Titen no matter how much you wish it were this cut n dry. I'm positive you
know it isn't. So, why all the rederick Titen. Can you explain that as well.
It's as if you have some really deep seeded issues with Christianity.
Just thought I'd give you an opportunity.

[edit on 24-4-2010 by randyvs]

Yahweh god is an asshole throughout, and Jesus (according to orthodoxy) was/is of one substance with this god.

reply to post by satanictemple

Yahweh god is an asshole throughout, and Jesus (according to orthodoxy) was/is of one substance with this god

If the only thing your mentality can muster is some petty name calling why even post. Did it make you feel good to get that dig in.
Your somethin.

Satan will offer you a beer, God will take your beer away.

Trying to keep you from drinking and driving. He knows you can only handle one beer.

Satan will get your girlfriend to try sexy outfits and acrobatic sexual acts, God is a c---blocker.

Maybe he was just try'in to keep you from getting aids.

Satan wants the poor to get health care, God does not want to jeopardize health insurance companies' profits.

Really!

Satan wants the US to stop bombing other countries for no good reason, God wants the US to bomb more countries.

Really!

Satan likes: the Beattles, Led Zeppelin, Metallica, Dr. Dre, Nirvana, Ice Cube, and Ozzy Osborne. God likes Christian Rap.

You got some funny ideas.

Satan likes: NPR, CNN, and the Economist. God likes Fox News.

God likes ATS.!

Satan is okay with gay dudes. God says he hates gay dudes, but he turns tricks with male prostitutes in bathrooms.

God dosn't hate anyone. I just relearned that one lately myself.

Satan says the world as we know it is in peril unless we stop polluting. God says we should keep on polluting and scientists are full of s---.

I think pretty much you're full of s---.

Satan thinks that every country matters. God is an American and thinks only America matters.

You say this as if you know. wake up! you don't.

So what is so cool about Satan.

[edit on 25-4-2010 by randyvs]